| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Northerner |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 11:16:43
This is kind of a continuation of Kalo's thread.
My doctor is a neighbor and has become a friend. We go kayaking together (it's always great to have a doctor present when going whitewater kayaking), and are about to go to practice kayaking in a pool together this afternoon.
He asked me how I was doing - I have had a flare up of what has been diagnosed as a pinched cervical nerve, backed up by an MRI and an EMG. When this first happened, he recommended that I cut back on basketball and rest it. He is well aware of the literature showing that 65% of people without back pain have abnormal MRI's. His last recommendation was to see physiatrist.
I told him a few weeks ago that I was working on a psychological approach to curing my back pain, which he did support. However, I didn't try to go into great detail about Dr. Sarno's concepts and TMS. When I first mentioned this to him years ago, he felt it was a placebo.
I have been trying Dr. Sarno's TMS approach aggressively for the first time, and have had some success, especially in the past few weeks since I started playing basketball more aggressively and tried kayaking, while at the same time stopping physical therapy. I still seem to have a ways to go. I can do anything I want physically now, but still have some intermittent upper back, shoulder and left arm pain, plus a little numbness in the toes and fingertips.
Anyone have any idea how to explain this to a doctor who is generally open-minded, a bit of an aging hippie himself, not opposed to new age ideas, but still a classically-trained physician?
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| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Peg |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 19:01:02
Hi Northerner,
I had a similar situation.
My doctor is my friend and we socialize on occasion. He's open minded, but wasn't familiar with Sarno. I actually used to work with him in his office as well.
When I first got better, I explained it to him as well as I could. I offered to lend him HBP but he didn't seem interested.
Then I waited quite a while (maybe a year), to make sure it was for real and not a placebo. Once I was confident in my recovery, I brought the book to him and asked him to read it. I told him he was a great doctor and cared so much about his patients, that he really needed to read it for his patients. He did read it and thought there was some merit to it. He has recommended it to some of his patients. Unfortunately, I don't think he really accepted it as applying to himself, since I have heard he has had issues with GI disturbances, headaches and dizziness (all at different times of course).
I agree with you, many MD's do appreciate the importance of the mind body connection, but find it hard to explain to their patients.
Best,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 18:47:26
quote:
Northerner:All MD's aren't blind to a mindbody connection.
I second that. Back when I thought that I had "RSI," I once argued with a doctor who knew me very well, and he brought up the fact that my "RSI" began right as I was graduating college, in a stressful time of my life. I was offended, of course, but in hindsight, he was spot on. My gut tells me that he would probably be skeptical of Dr. Sarno, though, which confuses me a bit, but that somehow seems to be the state of the world.
tmswiki.org |
| Northerner |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 16:52:24
To follow up, when we got out of the pool after kayak practice today, I told my doctor that I felt much better than I've felt in two months (which was true, by the way).
He said, laughingly, "For someone who has nominal neck pain, you certainly seem to be able to do things that you shouldn't be able to do."
He had watched me paddle hard, swim, and do eskimo rolls in the pool. An eskimo roll requires a bizarre, corkscrew motion (which you do when upside down and underwater), and you need to send every muscle in your body in the wrong direction to make yourself come up.
He was easily able to make the stress connection, I think, and feels that I'm tensing up in other situations to cause the pain, especially when I'm at my desk. I told him a little about this approach, without getting into the deep discussion of Dr. Sarno's explanation of the pain etiology, which is unnecessary at this point.
Once again, as a classic TMS'er, I was needlessly worrying. I didn't want to insult a friend and his occupation and get into a discussion about what may sound like goofy medicine (especially a few days before he fills out my forms for my life insurance company - I wanted my doctor to see me operating in perfect health), but it turns out that he can easily accept that back and neck pain can be caused by stress (and that's all I need to get into with him at this point - we try not to talk about medical topics when we're playing together).
Remember, medical doctors see thousands of patients, and have seen connections between stress and many disorders. Most have had patients recover from back pain after the removal of a stressful situation. Although it may be difficult for many docs to buy Dr. Sarno's devious brain causing pain as a distraction model, many believe that stress creates pain.
Bear in mind that one of the biggest complaints gastroenterologists have is that the problems they're treating in their patients are created by stress (I do some work in the healthcare industry).
All MD's aren't blind to a mindbody connection. |
| marsha |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 15:08:14
Give the good doctor a copy of The Divided Mind.
You don't owe anyone an explination. I know a few doctors (not TMS physicians) who actually believe there is some merit to the TMS mind body theory.
Give him a copy of THE DIVIVED MIND. There are a few chapters written by main stream medical practitioners.
Never be ashamed that your oponion is different than his. What works for you .works for you.
Let us know what you decide.
Marsha |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 12:36:55
That's a tough one. Sometimes it's best to keep it simple, whether you're talking to a doctor or not.
I think doctors, even if they're new age and open-minded, can't help but be medical doctors. They are trained to treat symptoms and give diagnoses.
If your having some success and want to share that with him, then do. You have good news! The truth is that getting back to basketball and kayaking has been the best physical therapy of all, and that it's made you better. And if he supported a "psychological approach" already, then elaborate on that if you think he'd support it or find it interesting. If you feel that using Dr. Sarno's name would trigger a discussion of placebo (which let's face it, is confusing for all of us, particularly when we're in the thick of the journey), then there's certainly no law against just leaving the source of your "approach" out.
Interestingly, I have a doctor friend who recently developed neck pain and he asked me how I recovered (from my neck pain). Like you, I had already mentioned Sarno to him when I was really suffering and in fact, unable to turn my neck, and he thinks the Sarno theory is baloney...So, what to say to him now? The truth about how I recovered is that after I abandoned physical therapy, acupuncture, massage and feeling sorry for myself (and scared that I'd never recover or get worse), I recovered because I read Sarno's books, got back to exercising and hired an amazing shrink...
But, what I told him was this: "I got back to exercising and worked to eliminate stress in my life. Stress goes straight to my neck and exacerbates my symptoms." I find I say this to other acquaintances. Many of my close friends know the whole complicated story and are very supportive, so I save my continuing set-backs and triumphs for conversations with them. |
| kalo |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 11:47:52
Hi Northerner,
As you can see I really don't post alot on the forum, but ya know what I've been realizing is that everyone one OUTSIDE of the TMS theory has there own opinion.
And, what I've found out is it's best not to mention your progress to this traditional doctor because there OPINIONS might set you back.
If he asks you how you are doing and even if you do have some minor set backs don't tell him, reply that you are doing GREAT!
If this will help you I used SUFFER from chronic neck pain. That's all I could think of. I had all the test done and the conventional docs tried to blame things on my disc, then wing scapula, etc.
I stopped going to therapy because NOTHING was helping and believed me I TRIED everything! Finally, I read The Mindbody prescription and I let go and went back to the Gym and the rest is history.
Did my pain disapate all together?? NO, not completely, but I never let it bother me. I mean I had pain on and off, but I knew it was NOTHING to worry about and the pain tingleness hit me right when I was STRESSED out the most or feared I might be doing more damage.
Now I am proud to say I am PAIN free in my neck and no tingley in my arms or hand. But guess what TMS picked a new spot for me to worry about and its the thumb.
Anyways, what I am trying to say Traiditonal doctors will never fully understand Dr. Sarno's approach and will always think there method is better even if there somewhat open. There opinions could hinder your progress.
When you're doctor friend asked how you are doing tell him you're doing fine even if you have some pain.
Hopefull this made sense!!! Kalo
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