| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pan |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 04:50:33
Hi All
Sorry, I don't actually post on here a huge amount as I have attributed my issues to anxiety and in particular Health Anxiety and tend to visit forums relating to this specifically but I do still lurk around here.
At quite an early stage in my ongoing Health Anxiety drama I came to the conclusion that in all likelyhood many of my anxiety sensations/symptoms where somatic as they often seemed to fit the profile of whatever specific disease I was currently fixated on. Through self study and CBT counselling I also became aware of a somatic personality and also the concept that emotional 'issues' can be expressed physically by the body in order to divert our attention away from the core emotional issues we should be addressing....this rang many bells for me and it is an avenue I am very receptive to.
I am somewhat confused as to how the traditional view of somatisation differs from TMS...I think that is probably why I am somewhat reluctant to post here at times as I sometimes fail to see what Sarno is actually bringing to the somatisation party...i.e how is TMS any different from the theory of somatisation that has beena round for years?
Anyway, I digress. Over the last few weeks I have been attempting to journal and also have been trying to look back over past life events and seeing how I dealt with them at the time and to see if there is actually any unresolved tension there. Something that came out of all this was me remembering something from my childhood which seems quite strange!
Right, don't panic...I'm not about to tell you in detail about my special uncle and the toffees but rather I recall from about the age of 13 or 14 I went through a period of waking up with a cracking headache and chronic nausea, the weird thing was this would only be on a Sunday morning and would usually only last till about 2pm. I think that this actually went on for the best part of a year and it went away as quickly as it seemed to start. I recall at the time that this did not freak me out but just remember it being an annoyance as I would go to bed on a Saturday with the almost guarantee that I would wake the next day to said pounding headache and feeling like rubbish.
Now, when I look at this logically I an aware that teenage years do some weird things to us and I'm also aware that the mind is very suseptable to the power of suggestion but I'm also wondering if there may have been an element of somatisation/TMS going on here. I remember that Sundays where often boring days and that there was no transport to go see friends etc etc.
So, I'm just wondering if behaviours/experiences like this that we may have as a child can be a precursor to the possibilty of suffering from somatic issues in later life. I know that I obviously did not have an organic ailment that caused me to be sick but only on Sundays so therefore my mind must have been at work here...could this in anyway actually be related to or of any significance to my physical anxiety/somatic issues that I am currently having?
Any thoughts or opinions would be great...cheers. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cfhunter |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 18:20:10
Hillbilly- Your words "Fear is the problem for anxiety sufferers, but walking through the fear is the cure for its hold on you. You learn to be one with your symptoms, instead of regarding them as some gremlin or troll that lives inside you."
Struck a chord with me. Last night while crying to my husband about feeling like such a disappointment and a burden to him I said "I think I create these things out of fear."
Fear has always had a stronghold in my life too...ALL of my life.
Fear when I was little of being left alone (my parents left my sister and I alone when we were only 9 and 10 (too young in my mind), fear of being sick, fear of dying, fear of being abandoned (developed OCD to deal with this crap when I was only 5 or 6), and now STILL suffering fear of being left by my husband who NEVER even imagined that would be a possibility.
I have more health anxiety than anyone I know and this just adds to it and adds to it.
I felt some relief from your post Hillbilly....maybe because so much of it resonated with me. I have never spoken my truth and so I suffer from it.
Carmen |
| Dor |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 05:30:39
I am continually impressed and touched by Hillbilly's thoughts, ideas, comments, suggestions, and sensitivity. Let me add one more thing to see if it clarifies "acceptance" as that is a difficult concept to understand on the emotional level. It has been for me. Instead of thinking "acceptance" think "permission". In other words, give yourself permission to have the symptoms, whatever they might be. Permission takes the struggle out of trying to accept what feels difficult or hurts. Give yourself permission to hurt emotionally or physically. After all, you would give that permission to someone else who was struggling with the same thing. You would empathize, comfort, and assure them that anyone in the same situation would feel as they do. Do the same for yourself. By giving yourself permission you almost automatically accept. You begin to think -"Yeh right, I have been through a lot and my body or mind is trying to tell me that. Maybe I need to understand that, Maybe I need to slow down, Maybe I need to stop putting so much pressure on myself to get better, Maybe I need to let it be there for awhile and go on as best I can. MAYBE I need to be a little more gentle with myself." By giving yourself permission and understanding that things in life have made you feel this way (not some demon or monster inside of yourself) you begin to accept. The old theories apply here - flight or fight. Stop fighting and give yourself permission. Permission stops the fight, lets you let go. You don't need to be anyone other than who you are at this moment. Give yourself permission to be where you are. Give yourself permission to be the "goodist", the "perfectionist", or the scared, stressed out soul. It is OK. Not an easy quick fix for sure, but definitely an "aha" moment. Continue to give yourself permission and "aha" moments and they will build one on top of the other.
Dor |
| head2toe |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 02:32:42
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
[quote]Mine exploded when I woke up one morning with two car payments and a mortgage, two kids and a job I loathed. So after suffering and suffering, I decided to lighten the load a bit and sought ways to do it.
I decided to post two quotes that I came across. They really resonated with me when I read them and the first one, I think, is particularly relevant to what you said Hillbilly.
“The great majority of us are required to live a life of constant, systematic duplicity. Your health is bound to be affected if, day after day, you say the opposite of what you feel, if you grovel before what you dislike and rejoice at what brings you nothing but misfortune. Our nervous system isn’t just a fiction, it’s a part of our physical body and our soul exists in space and is inside us like the teeth in our mouth. It can’t be forever violated with impunity.”
Boris Pasternak
I also found this one really amusing but sady true:
"Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like."
Will Rogers
|
| pan |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 08:54:55
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
quote:
I am somewhat confused as to how the traditional view of somatisation differs from TMS...I think that is probably why I am somewhat reluctant to post here at times as I sometimes fail to see what Sarno is actually bringing to the somatisation party...i.e how is TMS any different from the theory of somatisation that has been around for years?
The last three of his books have been identical with only additions to the list of equivalents, and in the last, The Divided Mind, he uses other docs to write about their experiences in treating patients using his theory. Some of the chapters in Mind Over Back Pain were copied and pasted verbatim into Healing Back Pain. You can either read one book over and over or read the last three, and the effect will be the same.
And yet, there are so many, many people who come here and post their stories and they are neither improving nor attempting anything else to overcome their pain or other somatization issues. The castigation some receive for doubting Sarno's accuracy or their own diagnosis is troubling to me, and that is why I am an infrequent visitor here. Shouts of placebo ring through the threads here when someone uses non-Sarnovian methods at feeling better
I like to explore this theory with people whose minds are open to suggestion. Entrapment is the bane of all who suffer from anxiety because it reminds them of the frustration(s) they suffered early in life. You may fill in the blank with whatever situation (demanding/abusive parents who support you financially so you can't just leave, coach you hate but you love playing the sport, job you hate but you need the money, kids you love but who demand a great deal of time and often don't listen to simple advice that could avert serious problems). Life is filled with such situations.
The key to overcoming the symptoms is to let them be there, reminding you that you are in a situation that you don't control, but the benefits in some way in your analysis outway the cost of being there. This can be something as simple as riding in a car or standing in line at the market. Freedom and autonomy is perhaps the number one goal of our lives, but it seems so elusive. Our stress meter goes up when we do something to threaten our freedom.
Mine exploded when I woke up one morning with two car payments and a mortgage, two kids and a job I loathed. So after suffering and suffering, I decided to lighten the load a bit and sought ways to do it. No amount of journaling was going to open my airway and allow to me to breathe easily again. I had to take action to make some changes, and there was reputational fear attached, marital strain, uncertainty and lots of other things that came up that I ultimately decided were worth going through to reach the free air again.
Your symptoms can get in the way of making these changes, for sure. I thought I was incapable of many things physically until I did them and realized I didn't die. In the end, it can be summed up as finally being true to myself and my values and casting aside the mind-reading habit of caring about what others thought about my decisions. I only had one life and finally decided I would not ever be happy unless I traveled my own path. I had long talks with my wife in which I described how it felt to be strangled by debts for things I cared little about. Robert Frost said "and that has made all the difference" where two roads diverged. He chose the path less traveled, his own, and came to see his life as an adventure rather than a drudgery.
How about you, pan, are you trapped right now? What would open your airway? Some say it is repression that causes these problems. So what causes people to repress if not fear? Can't explode on your boss or you might get fired, and you need the money. Trapped. Can't tell your wife/husband that you wish they would help you more for fear of a confrontation that could lead to divorce. Trapped. What causes people not to take a chance on anything if not fear? Fear is the problem for anxiety sufferers, but walking through the fear is the cure for its hold on you. You learn to be one with your symptoms, instead of regarding them as some gremlin or troll that lives inside you. Take your symptoms with you on your journey. They will never lie to you.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
...apologies for bumping an older thread!
Hillbilly, as my last post in this thread indicates I have been thinking about this idea. Can you flesh out what you are getting at and explain the concept as I feel on some level it is a valid line of enquiry but aspects of it are alluding me.
thanks |
| pan |
Posted - 12/27/2008 : 08:31:46
quote:
Originally posted by gezondheid
He Pan,
It is probably and old pattern. And yes it could be a precursor. I also has some of these things in my youth.
Question still is how you respond to it now. The origin of it is good to know so you can give it a context. But your response to the fear is much more important. For myself that is still the work to do. Totally letting go of the fear when symptoms arise (i don't have much pain, almost nothing but a lot of tension/fear about my lower back)
And i don't think Sarno is much different from other somatic teachings.
The only thing that is different is the huge focus on repressed emotions and symptoms as a distraction. I doubt that very much.
What he added is that things like backpain, rsi, neckpain etc have found a place in the mindbody approach. He has shown enough evidence for that. And that we get stuffed with nocebo info which screws your mind big time.
I agree with Hilbilly that it is fear (and his sister doubt) in al its forms that keeps things you don't want going.
I hike your topic to ask something to Hilbilly. I just didn't got what he meant in some phrases. Sorry for that.
Question about Hilbillys reply:
------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
The key to overcoming the symptoms is to let them be there, reminding you that you are in a situation that you don't control, but the benefits in some way in your analysis outway the cost of being there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but i can't get the punch of what you are trying to say. Specialy the second part of the sentence. Sorry i'am dutch. Does it mean that if you fully accept the symptoms in everyting that you do the situation will shift and the cost of doing it evaporates against the salvation (benefits) of the symptoms ?????
Second Question for Hilbilly:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
You learn to be one with your symptoms, instead of regarding them as some gremlin or troll that lives inside you. Take your symptoms with you on your journey. They will never lie to you.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this mean to again fully accept your symptoms? But i don't want to take them on my journey. I still want the fear/tension about my back to go. I can see what your saying but it gives me a feeling of having them around longer. My question is; is that what you mean? Or do you mean that the symptoms are signposts for selfreflection. I'am still dutch and can't really grasp what you tried to said to Pan.
Hope you both will respond
     
Thanks to everyone who replied.
Hillbilly, I am grateful for what you wrote. The part I highlighted I took to be refering to living in a comfort zone...you know, the idea that we willingly live in a situation that is actually often suffocating us and holding us back yet the situation just gives us enough so that we willingly put up with the suffocation because we percieve the uncertainty of moving out of the comfort zone a worse option.
Anyway, some interesting points to dwell on. |
| gezondheid |
Posted - 12/26/2008 : 05:46:13
something went wrong with the Smily`s in the post above. Forget them. |
| gezondheid |
Posted - 12/26/2008 : 05:42:30
He Pan,
It is probably and old pattern. And yes it could be a precursor. I also has some of these things in my youth.
Question still is how you respond to it now. The origin of it is good to know so you can give it a context. But your response to the fear is much more important. For myself that is still the work to do. Totally letting go of the fear when symptoms arise (i don't have much pain, almost nothing but a lot of tension/fear about my lower back)
And i don't think Sarno is much different from other somatic teachings.
The only thing that is different is the huge focus on repressed emotions and symptoms as a distraction. I doubt that very much.
What he added is that things like backpain, rsi, neckpain etc have found a place in the mindbody approach. He has shown enough evidence for that. And that we get stuffed with nocebo info which screws your mind big time.
I agree with Hilbilly that it is fear (and his sister doubt) in al its forms that keeps things you don't want going.
I hike your topic to ask something to Hilbilly. I just didn't got what he meant in some phrases. Sorry for that.
Question about Hilbillys reply:
------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
The key to overcoming the symptoms is to let them be there, reminding you that you are in a situation that you don't control, but the benefits in some way in your analysis outway the cost of being there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but i can't get the punch of what you are trying to say. Specialy the second part of the sentence. Sorry i'am dutch. Does it mean that if you fully accept the symptoms in everyting that you do the situation will shift and the cost of doing it evaporates against the salvation (benefits) of the symptoms ?????
Second Question for Hilbilly:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
You learn to be one with your symptoms, instead of regarding them as some gremlin or troll that lives inside you. Take your symptoms with you on your journey. They will never lie to you.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this mean to again fully accept your symptoms? But i don't want to take them on my journey. I still want the fear/tension about my back to go. I can see what your saying but it gives me a feeling of having them around longer. My question is; is that what you mean? Or do you mean that the symptoms are signposts for selfreflection. I'am still dutch and can't really grasp what you tried to said to Pan.
Hope you both will respond
|
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 12/22/2008 : 10:04:44
quote:
I am somewhat confused as to how the traditional view of somatisation differs from TMS...I think that is probably why I am somewhat reluctant to post here at times as I sometimes fail to see what Sarno is actually bringing to the somatisation party...i.e how is TMS any different from the theory of somatisation that has been around for years?
The last three of his books have been identical with only additions to the list of equivalents, and in the last, The Divided Mind, he uses other docs to write about their experiences in treating patients using his theory. Some of the chapters in Mind Over Back Pain were copied and pasted verbatim into Healing Back Pain. You can either read one book over and over or read the last three, and the effect will be the same.
And yet, there are so many, many people who come here and post their stories and they are neither improving nor attempting anything else to overcome their pain or other somatization issues. The castigation some receive for doubting Sarno's accuracy or their own diagnosis is troubling to me, and that is why I am an infrequent visitor here. Shouts of placebo ring through the threads here when someone uses non-Sarnovian methods at feeling better
I like to explore this theory with people whose minds are open to suggestion. Entrapment is the bane of all who suffer from anxiety because it reminds them of the frustration(s) they suffered early in life. You may fill in the blank with whatever situation (demanding/abusive parents who support you financially so you can't just leave, coach you hate but you love playing the sport, job you hate but you need the money, kids you love but who demand a great deal of time and often don't listen to simple advice that could avert serious problems). Life is filled with such situations.
The key to overcoming the symptoms is to let them be there, reminding you that you are in a situation that you don't control, but the benefits in some way in your analysis outway the cost of being there. This can be something as simple as riding in a car or standing in line at the market. Freedom and autonomy is perhaps the number one goal of our lives, but it seems so elusive. Our stress meter goes up when we do something to threaten our freedom.
Mine exploded when I woke up one morning with two car payments and a mortgage, two kids and a job I loathed. So after suffering and suffering, I decided to lighten the load a bit and sought ways to do it. No amount of journaling was going to open my airway and allow to me to breathe easily again. I had to take action to make some changes, and there was reputational fear attached, marital strain, uncertainty and lots of other things that came up that I ultimately decided were worth going through to reach the free air again.
Your symptoms can get in the way of making these changes, for sure. I thought I was incapable of many things physically until I did them and realized I didn't die. In the end, it can be summed up as finally being true to myself and my values and casting aside the mind-reading habit of caring about what others thought about my decisions. I only had one life and finally decided I would not ever be happy unless I traveled my own path. I had long talks with my wife in which I described how it felt to be strangled by debts for things I cared little about. Robert Frost said "and that has made all the difference" where two roads diverged. He chose the path less traveled, his own, and came to see his life as an adventure rather than a drudgery.
How about you, pan, are you trapped right now? What would open your airway? Some say it is repression that causes these problems. So what causes people to repress if not fear? Can't explode on your boss or you might get fired, and you need the money. Trapped. Can't tell your wife/husband that you wish they would help you more for fear of a confrontation that could lead to divorce. Trapped. What causes people not to take a chance on anything if not fear? Fear is the problem for anxiety sufferers, but walking through the fear is the cure for its hold on you. You learn to be one with your symptoms, instead of regarding them as some gremlin or troll that lives inside you. Take your symptoms with you on your journey. They will never lie to you.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| mizlorinj |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 08:59:22
And I was getting a shoulder pain on Sundays knowing Monday brought the workweek. Funny.
If somatization is what I think it is, emotions (stress) being manifested as physical symptoms, it is TMS. A physical reaction to emotions. Like blushing or your heart pounding when nervous. Both are mind/body issues(a term I've come to prefer over TMS or any other).
Interesting, Pan, how your journaling brought back a memory. I can't tell you how many times while journaling something from the past came back to me and I was able to process and release it. That's how journaling works. Yes, it takes time and effort. I believe (because I've seen) that journaling is key to long-term healing.
Regarding childhood issues: Dr. Sarno says 1/3 of our "overflowing beaker" is childhood issues, 1/3 everyday stressors (work, family), and 1/3 personality traits (goodist, perfectionist). So yes, childhood issues, events, etc. are important to address.
Personally I would help myself by journaling and changing any conditioned thinking. Read Dr. Sarno's books. And then read them again. His treatment plan is in The Divided Mind. I don't find visiting web sites helpful because there's too much misinformation (e.g. herniated disc causes back pain and how to treat with p/t), and then people become very scared. Fear is a powerful emotion and has its own side effects.
Best wishes to all,
-Lori |
| Erata |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 06:15:44
I don’t know what the difference is between TMS and Somatization, but what you’ve written sounds very much like my understanding of TMS and also reminds me of myself at around 12. Every Sunday, between the time my family got home from church and lunch, I would get an excruciating stomachache and would have to lie down and miss the family lunch. (Since my family mostly fought and argued, it’s no mystery why my unconscious opted for an out.)
When I joined the Girl Scouts, meetings were held in the basement of the local leader’s home where I got a weekly migraine headache. Girl Scout activities elsewhere didn’t bring migraines, so I think something about that basement must have been triggering.
I guess your boredom probably could trigger physical symptoms or could your unconscious have been tripped by something that happened on a Sunday or Sundays from earlier childhood (what about the uncle)? Had something changed for the better in your life when they suddenly disappeared a year later?
Also, Sunday is the day before Monday and beginning the school week.
|
| njoy |
Posted - 12/14/2008 : 23:17:50
Wow, I had exactly the same problem on Sundays when I was stuck at home (at least in the morning) with my parents. I had a horrible headache, nausea, etc. for several years, until the day I left home after high school. Never since, though. At the time I didn't realize the cause was being trapped but it became obvious as soon as I was free at last. |
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