| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 05:27:56
Take a moment and read this if you will, I'll comment on why I'm posting it when I get a break from the kids later.
http://tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/article879492.ece |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JohnD |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 16:57:51
   |
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 15:07:19
quote:
Originally posted by gezondheid
I rest my case
By the way the smilies are cool. It makes things lighter
Greetings Gezondheid
agree (but dont tell JohnD )(j/k ) |
| gezondheid |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 13:25:08
My Thoughts on this,
If you/i believe one on one that pain is the cover for "some" repressed emotion/feeling or whatever than every form of pain has to be a cover up for a feeling or emotion, etc. This opens in your thinking the huge possibility for a big unknown that can be responsible for pain.
Next to that you have to convince yourself that the pain is not structural and you also must interpretate moments of pain as possible patterns/conditionings. 3 possibilities for pain. What is what? 
This can only fuel doubt and fear if the pain doesn't leave or gets much lesser after a while (say 3 to 6 months).
I think you have to break the connection between a direct pain impuls and repressed emotions. To be short, you have to kick the "symptoms as a distraction" out of your beliefsystem. I fully agree with Hilbilly that recovery is ONLY because you can BELIEF AND KNOW that your BODY IS OKE. After that the pressure must drop. Constantly falling back on repressed rage, raging inner child etc adds a "something"to the cause of your pain. There maybe repressed things, your inner self maybe out of balance but the main question is; is it responsible for your pain.
If so, 50% of the world population should be totally crippled
Maybe Sarno's cure is really about believing this, the first step. Maybe if we can see our feelings and emotions in a different relation with the pain than we don't fear the pain as a cover for possible repressed things. A thing that can't be found but in our mind must be the cause of pain.
After a long while this will drive you nuts and gets you nowhere.
In my belief the Sarno theory is successful because of step 1, my body is oke. This gives people a huge relief and they act normal again, after that the balance is restored Some people (like myself) have huge problems getting over the fear thing and get stuck in a way or recover 80% or something like that. And belief me i have seen fear as a so called symptom imperative and wrote what this fear was keeping me from. It only made it worse.
That you have to became aware of your balance, emotions, feelings, etc is crucial. But the way they can cause psychosomatic symptoms is probably different than the way Sarno says. In the first place the pain is caused by an overload of stress, conflict etc. The nerves system can't coop anymore. Directly after that is a crucial moment. Can you see that you have stressed yourself to the limit and can you keep the faith that the physical symptoms are psychosomatic. The cause maybe gone but fear and doubt (and only that) keeps you in a vicious circle. So one has to make a choice and see the pain only being kept alive because of your fear for pain and doubt about your body. When you are aware of you're problems, stress, thinking-feeling and past it should not be necessary to constantly tune in to that to get relief. Then (in my opinion) the cause lies somewhere else.
Question for me is still, how do i get there, my last 20% of recovery.
The so called symptoms as distraction never worked for me and to be honest i don't belief it.
So when you have pain could it only be a resultant of a very bad habit like permanent fearing, doubting etc. The cause has settled itself already and is not the cause anymore. Why still consider it?
And to turn a total different corner, eckhart Tolle is very helpfull for me but it depends how you match his teachings with psychosomatic problems.
I rest my case
By the way the smilies are cool. It makes things lighter
Greetings Gezondheid
|
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 04:33:41
quote:
Originally posted by gezondheid
Should recovery not only be a reconditioning proces based on the 100% faith that my body is oke? AND FORGET THE REST !!!!!
I myself have been doing this quite awhile now. But here comes the conflict :
quote:
Originally posted by gezondheid
Of course i have to be in touch with my emotions and feelings. What are the conflicts and stress actors, what is my personality like etc.
Then you can't forget the rest can you? On one hand you "forget the rest" and then theres the acknowledgement of how important the "rest" is.
It appears then that the truth is in the middle. your thoughts? |
| gezondheid |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 13:08:33
Hey Skizz,
Isn't recovery only about the belief in step 1. Our bodies are oke.
Isn't it the doubting and fear that keeps it going and creates certain neurological pathways and stress and extra fear. And isn't it our constant switching of focus about recovery that keeps the party going.
Isn't this what is the so called psychological thinking and only this.
Should recovery not only be a reconditioning proces based on the 100% faith that my body is oke? AND FORGET THE REST !!!!!
Of course i have to be in touch with my emotions and feelings. What are the conflicts and stress actors, what is my personality like etc.
Belief me i wrote, spoke and thought about it a lot.
I think fear and doubt perpetuate things and a crisis (stress in al its forms) caused this nasty situation.
These are my thoughts on the subject.
Greetings Gezondheid
|
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 04:44:49
quote:
Originally posted by gezondheid
Any thoughts Skizz
Greetings Gezondheid
no.
but, greetings to you back! I was actually thinking of your correspondence w/ me all this week. And I'm in a constant argument w/ myself as to wether I should continue to be on this board or contact others here as it only fortifies my altar to the pain perhaps.
I hate that my trip to work passes 3 to 4 chiro offices, I hate going into customers homes w/ obvious bk problems and have them complain while I hide mine. I hate watching the buffalo bills and sabres games as they are saturated w/ chiro and spinal decompression commercials.
It's like I have to keep coming bk here for my sanity. If the pain could get to a level where it could be ignored I'm all for it.
|
| gezondheid |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 11:28:52
Hey Skizz,
Quote:
I'm now rambling here, but maybe sometimes someone w/ occasional back pain is better off not knowing about tms. Thats another thread for another time though.
Is it for another time? Maybe we can try to find out why the TMS theory is not always the solution to the problem. It has brilliant parts but is obvious not the whole thing. In 2004 (before i ever heard of Sarno) i was cured from backpain with a similar program but not a word about repression. You know what did it? , a trainer who said that my spine was oke and that i had to drop the fear. He put me on a rowing machine everyday 20 min. The basic teaching was letting go, relax, backs don't get hurt easily, drop the fear and focus in a relaxed way on what you can do.
I recovered for about 90%. They also never mentioned the fact if there was something wrong structurally or not. Who cares they said. My group got X-rays/MRI and everything was oke.
So i have that experience in a way. Maybe we can start a topic and see if we can find another way. I'am not often on this board but this can be fruitful. A combination of things have helped me and i can lead a reasonable normal life. But i'am not there yet.
Any thoughts Skizz
Greetings Gezondheid
|
| skizzik |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 08:50:19
yeah, I would'nt doubt that John, he probably did have some major trauma predating his mom's death considering where was the father? I can't find a mention of him.
So, I'm sittin in applebee's last night and catch out of the corner of my eye on the tv that Warrick Dunn is promoting a book on the Jim Rome show. I zoned in on what I could considering I had to read it on "cc" prompt at the bottom of the screen.
Warrick Dunn, along w/ other famous atheletes (David Duval, Rocco Mediate, Nate Quarry...etc) who have/had/have again low back problems have become little pet projects of mine as when I hear of a low back injury I'm honed in and look at their past and usually I find trauma, or a childhood out of control. See thread below.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4998
So, I noticed Warrick Dunn was having a very good nfl season. Most fantasy owners played him regularly. He did have a back surgery last year that was the result of back and leg pain and rehabbed pretty quickly in 6 weeks to play the 2007 season. So alls well right?
Well, I did some searching. Just prior to the sciatica/back pain he visited the killer of his mother some 10 years ago to forgive him and move on. A noble move, and perhaps an attempt at forgiveness so he could move on in life. Then w/in a few days I think, came the reports that he could'nt shake the back/leg pain and opted for surgery.
I found myself envious of Warrick because of his lack of knowledge (I think) of tms. Someone told him surgery may help, he got it, and rushes for a thousand nfl yards. Placebo to the rescue! Maybe, I don't know, what do you guys think?
Soooooooooo, where was I, oh yeah, so Warrick is having another good season. And he's out w/ backpain this week. My first thought of course was tms. But my second thoughts were maybe more in line w/ "JohnD" as professional atheletes know their bodies more than we do, and we can't comprehend the pounding they take in games and at practice, especially at 33 which Dunn is.
I forgot about Dunn until I saw the telly last night and he was promoting his new book about what he's been thru, and how the murder of his mother affected his life so greatly. And how he did the positive thing and went to visit the murderer and forgive him so he could move on and have a life for himself for the first time ever. He had given his all to his siblings. And I did'nt even know about the brain tumor his brother had, and the impact that the bucs won the superbowl w/ out him.
He kept saying he had to do this to move on, that it was a positive healing thing, and he feels so much better for it.........
It's just a coincidence he has enough backpain from the pounding of football to bench him the same week his book promotion comes out about his life.
Or, is that little boy inside in pure anguish, and rage. The little boy wants to kill the predator, wants to cry hard for a year in mourning. But Warrick did'nt have the luxury of a father to cry to, or perhaps anyone. He was born w/ talent, talent that could make him millions in the future. He did'nt complain, he stepped up and took over the family as a provider and role model before 20. He felt it important to look strong in front of his siblings perhaps. A suppressed A-bomb of rage that had no where to disperse.
Conciously, he knows he must take action so he can move past the events of his life and have a future w/ no more emotional pain. He can't form a relation w/ a woman for fear of losing her too. So he took the action. He visited, forgave and moved on. Finally.
But how complex is our mind? This would be pure, unadulterated, textbook Sarno distraction theory at work if tms were the case. He fits........everything about this scenario fits the profile.
He's been thru therapy, but Sarno says therapy w/ out the knowledge of tms will not heal tms.
Perhaps after the book comes out and the promotion for it dies down, then too will his back pain. And he'll put together another season or two.
If he ever learns of tms in the future he could put two and two together and agree that his pain coincided w/ these events when he put on a happy smile for those around him, but was stressed w/ conflict on the inside. For that I'm jealous.
Jealous because I apply the tms theory every day, and it causes my own internal conflict of why it won't go away which I feel perpetuates it, and I don't suffer from distraction theory so much as I think I suffer from simply having it, and it growing on itself. Kinda what hillbilly and hellny talk about.
I'm now rambling here, but maybe sometimes someone w/ occasional back pain is better off not knowing about tms. Thats another thread for another time though.
Ok, back to Warrick. I would say he's got tms. He fits the profile if you read the article carefully. The timing is there. |
| JohnD |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 06:09:26
He's been through a lot, obviously. I think that his reaction to the events in his life show that he already had some traumas that predated his mothers death  |
|
|
