| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 14:00:30
When you feel like you know what is going on, yet the pain persists - it can be pretty frustrating. Especially when you read about these "book cures". There are plenty of people who read the book and the pain simply goes away. Fast.
"Why not me?" we ask ourselves.
I've read Sarno's, Brady's, Sophers and Amir's books so much I can practically recite them to friends and family. I've watched the videos. I've done the journaling work so much that my focus on what I was repressing started to depress me.
Overal Sarno's work has helped a lot, but I never could quite get to 100%.
I've recently turned a corner and I want to share what I've discovered.
For me, it's all been about expectations and fear. The more I fear the pain and the more I expect it - the more it's there. Without fail.
On the other hand, the more I tell myself I'm Ok and that I'm not going to hurt, the better I feel. Amazing.
The challenge is figuring out how to actually stop being afraid of the pain. As someone who's been stuck on the floor for 14 hours straight, not being able to get up... it's really easy to be afraid.
So, as a result of reading a book on mental programming, I decided to try something new for my own pain.
The book is "What to say when you talk to yourself" by Chad Helmstetter. The concept is "Self Talk" which Sarno tells us to do. Sarno says to "Talk to your Brain".
In this book, Dr. Helmstetter explains that everything we do and experience in life is as a result of the programming in our subconscious. If you have learned as a child that the rich are evil, you'll have a tough time becoming financially rich. If you believe you are a procrastinator, you will always struggle to get important things done.
And translated to back pain: If you believe you have a "bad back" and that you will experience pain anytime you do anything physical, you WILL.
Here's my take on how chronic pain happens.
Most of us started having pain in one of two ways.
1. Trauma - a real injury that we have convinced ourselves "has never quite healed."
2. Gradual onset - pain that somehow just starts and progressively gets worse.
In this quick fix society - we hurt, we go to a doctor. We want someone to "fix us".
So, we start going to mainstream doctors, chiropractors, surgeons, phisical therapists. We start reading mainstream medical literature and websites. All of this input causes us over time to become programmed to believe that we are broken, frail and destined to a life of pain. MRI, XRay and Cat Scan Imaging studies just magnify the fear and programming.
Without even being aware of it, a mild episode that may have gone away on it's own in 15-30 days now becomes a crippling event.
My sister-in-law went from a mild episode to being "diagnosed" with fibromyalgia in 6 months all due to being programmed that she was "broken".
I struggle with this feeling of being "broken" myself. So, I decided to test this Self Talk theory and consciously change my "program".
My test: I literally created a recording of myself speaking affirmations of my well being, my healthy and pain free back, etc. I did it with uplifting music in the background and saved it in a format that I can load to my iPod. I put it into a playlist and basically listen to it in Loop mode as I go to sleep each night. Basically it keeps playing over and over until I shut it off.
I play it in the background during the day as well.
I took the time to write it out - focusing on framing my affirmations in positive statements of being able to do things comfortably, easily and pain free. Then I simply mustered up all the confidence in my voice and read it with emotion into a microphone onto my computer.
Proactively, I am now "reformatting the hard drive" of my subconscious brain and my thoughts.
My results so far? I'm a lot better now than before I began testing out this process. What is cool is that within DAYS of starting this mental reprogramming, I started to feel way better. I'm still not completely done, but the quick results were a powerful confirmation of the concept of how our "programs" run our lives.
Call it affirmations, talking to your brain, autosuggestion or whatever. In the end, if your program is filled with "pain messages" that's what you'll experience despite logically understanding Sarno's theories.
You need to do the work to convince your subconscious that you're fine. Unfortunately that takes repetition and some time. And if you are trying to convince yourself that you are fine throughout the day as you fight your fear and actually feel pain - it is difficult for the logical to prevail over the fear and the pain.
In the end, the stronger "program" will ALWAYS win. If the fear and expectation of pain is stronger than your affirmation that you are fine, the pain will always win.
So, for me, the quickest way of handling the repetition and allow the "I'm fine" program to grow stronger than the fear was to "automate" it. Again, the recording of my own voice saying over and over how healthy and pain free and unafraid I am was the trick for me.
I have actually gotten better results with this approach than I did with the focus on the negative emotions and journaling.
Has anyone else tried this? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Dan |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 06/22/2009 : 17:15:20
PRCalDude: I agree with you on not having to believe the affirmations. The issue isn't whether or not it will eventually work. It's more a matter of fighting the BS meter and actually continuing to do the affirmations until they DO work.
I think if the BS meter goes off and we don't believe them - it's possible we will start to feel silly and just stop the process before it's done it's job.
That's why Noah St Johns approach of turning the affirmation into a question could be an alternate approach. Personally, I like the questions - but can definitely see affirmations working as well.
In the end, these are two similar approaches to the same end goal. Reprogramming our mind to believe that which we want to believe. That we are healthy, strong and empowered.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm learning so much from all of you as a result of these discussions.
Dan |
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 21:30:16
quote:
I've also read and seen the DVD "The Secret", so I am a little fearful of using the word "pain" a lot because it seems to unconsciously reinforce its existance in me. What I decided to do was substitute the word "discomfort" wherever I would normally use the word
Yeah, DO NOT mention anything negative in your affirmations, like "pain." It will only re-inforce the negative and your subconscious will cling to it. Your affirmations should be short, simple, and should be of something that you want, but stated like you've already obtained them. For example, "Back healthy" is a fine affirmation.
Dan,
John Kehoe says it's fine if you don't believe your affirmations, you just have to repeat them. It's sort of like administering a drug. Over time, they'll have an effect. In fact, Kehoe says that trying to convince yourself that a particular affirmation is true nullifies the effect of the affirmation. Don't force it. (pg 29, "Mind Power Into the 21st Century." |
| crk |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 18:57:56
Guej - glad you found us! I think this site is a great way to get some ideas and help.
One aspect of the affirmations that comes back to me again and again is this idea of getting the focus off the pain. But I believe it has to go further: get the focus off the body altogether!
Are you in pain because you do not believe that your body is ok? I propose that is NOT the problem. Working towards believing you are not hurt is part of the journey for sure, but the pain is there not because of muscles, tendons and joints - it's there because of THOUGHTS ABOUT YOURSELF.
Please let me know what you think of this idea. If all, or nearly all, of the affirmations are about your psyche rather than your body, I believe you will not only cure your tms, but you will have cleared up the mental illness -pardon the harsh term - that made it happen in the first place.
If this is the goal, then the affirmations will be mostly about your self-worth, your power, your determination, your awesome qualities, your lack of fear, your balanced lifestyle, your autonomy, your confidence....
I'll stop there, but you get the idea. Let me know what you think. |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 10:56:31
When our minds are so occupied with the pain - it's actually pretty difficult to come up with affirmations or afformations (questions) of a positive nature that don't mention the word pain.
My latest efforts with these afformations is to not mention the negative at all and just focus on the positive.
"my body is strong, healthy and flexible"
I feel great.
I am confident and fearless.
I feel my body relax and accept myself for who I am.
I enjoy being me
I allow myself to feel and live my emotions.
I love to push myself physically and get stronger every day.
etc. etc. etc.
If these type of statements set off your Bull___T meter - turn them into questions.
Why do I feel great.
How come I love to feel my body relax.
Why do I let myself live my emotions and truly feel them.
Why is exercising so fun and fulfilling.
How come I love being me so much.
Enjoy the weekend!!!
Dan |
| guej |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 10:15:17
So glad I found this forum. After suffering with chronic back and leg pain for almost a year, (and I mean 24/7, on pain killers, life-changing pain), I found Dr. Sarno's books and knew I had hit the jackpot. Nothing that I heard or read all year struck a cord the way his books did. Anyway, I went to see him in NYC and I'm just starting the program.
Unfortunately for me, I'm not one of those lucky ones that can just read a book. Having lived with my ever present buddy "pain" for a year, I have some major incorrect thinking to undo, and some new thinking to absorb. I love WebDan's ideas and I've already started to create my affirmations which I'm hoping to record soon. I've also read and seen the DVD "The Secret", so I am a little fearful of using the word "pain" a lot because it seems to unconsciously reinforce its existance in me. What I decided to do was substitute the word "discomfort" wherever I would normally use the word
"p-a-i-n". Believe me, "discomfort" is putting it lightly for what I feel on a daily basis, but I'm trying to think of it that way, because it's much less ominous, and I can certainly live with a little "discomfort". The other word is so threatening and keeps me mentally where I've been for the past year, which is feeling hopeless and chronic (or never ending). I thought about myself as a chronic "p" patient for these past months because that's what I was told by various medical professionals who can only speculate on what caused it and because it hasn't resolved, have told me I need to learn how to manage it because it rarely goes away on it's own. So...that word just conjures up all the fears and dispair I've felt this past year. "Discomfort" minimizes the physical symptoms in my head, while I work my way through this educational process.If there's nothing seriously wrong with me physically, and I know that now, then what I'm feeling is "discomfort" due to a physically harmless mindbody process that I will undue. The other word just seems to connotate and reinforce physical severity. I've only been doing this for a few days, but I think it's the way to go for me. Good luck to everyone! We deserve normal lives again, and hopefully, even better ones than what we had before. |
| Hillbilly |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 19:41:42
Spanky,
I totally agree that "getting over" TMS is only a first step. I want more. I had a terrible experience with public speaking when I was in high school. I got over that, vanquished the lingering demon that kept me from ever speaking up in class in college, from giving a toast at my best friend's wedding, and countless other barriers to a free and full life.
I'm still on my quest.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| Capn Spanky |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 15:00:34
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
A guy named Gupta has a similar program for "reprogramming the amygdala" for dealing with chronic fatigue syndrome. Aren't we finally seeing that the answer is not as simple as screaming in the car, beating pillows, journaling, etc., but that changing the way we think, on a conscious level, minute by minute, ultimately keeps us free of these nervous ailments? For many, the pain goes away only to return because of social influences, our inability to adapt our emotional expectations and accept those changes/stressors, and/or reliance upon our insufficient experience to accept our realities.
I know this sounds like a proposal for a doctoral dissertation, but the common theme I see in all these "treatments" is that they are aimed at changing thought paradigms such as "pain means disability" and welcoming emotion, even overwhelming emotion, and getting us to accept ourselves. What say you?
I'm not WebDan but I totally agree. That's why I feel like what I've learned from Dr. Sarno has served as the platform (or starting point) to change and improve my entire life. |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 04:09:43
quote:
Maybe someone can link it to the Wiki too.
You can put it on there yourself, if you like, crk.
Just find the place where you want to put it and either click the "EasyEdit" button at the top of the page, or "Add New Page" (under the Table of Contents on the left).
Another idea is that you could have it as a "User Page" (this is a page you create for things more personal to you).
Hilary N |
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 20:21:13
quote:
Originally posted by crk
I use a combination of 1) those statements from the Helmstetter book (esp. pgs 180-200 in my copy) which suited my needs and 2) statements I wrote to address specific negative thoughts, based on the work in my Sarno journals.
EG - For a defeatist attitude and thinking that my experiences in the coming day(s) would turn out badly because they had in the past day(s)... "My past does not equal my future. I open myself to expect success and happy outcomes. I am comfortable with the unknown aspects of my future." (ie I don't *know* what the day will be like and that's ok.)
EG - For the feeling I get that I must always hurry, won't have time to do *anything* (paralyzing), and do not have the right to take my time (This was a HUGE discovery that tms journaling gave me; I was constantly being pushed along and hurried by my older siblings and parents and had (have?) a lot of rage about it.) .... "I have plenty of time to do the things I set out to do. I never feel rushed."
I look forward to typing all my bits and scraps of paper up into one good list sometime soon. I will start a new thread I think, link it to this one, and invite others to share their favorite affirmations. Maybe someone can link it to the Wiki too. What do you think?
So you didn't need to phrase everything in an "afformation" (a positive affirmation phrased in the form of a question) in the way suggested in the St. John book? I can't tell if St. John is actually onto something groundbreaking or is just trying to carve out his own niche in the success book market to make money for himself.
St. John's claim is that affirmations don't work because they set off the brain's "BS detector." Clearly, they worked just fine for you, the guy on the "success stories" part of the forum, and Webdan (possibly?) also.
The more I read into this TMS issue, the more I think the cure lies in just convincing your subconscious that you're fine and to forget about the unpleasantness. |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 19:56:33
crk:
Awesome that you have made so much progress. What I found too is that even mentioning the word pain wasn't a good idea. Keeping the focus on the positive of what we want and the direction I want to go in - really helped me get past the programming.
A big part of this falls under the old quote. "Actions speak louder than words." When I pushed myself physically by working out, running on the treadmill, playing golf (which I was afraid to do) - my mind started to let go of the "I'm broken" model. I think it was a combination of the affirmations, positive questions and return to physical activity that made the biggest difference.
I like the idea of sharing favorite affirmations with the group. I too plan to put a "big list" together.
Dan |
| crk |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 19:38:31
I use a combination of 1) those statements from the Helmstetter book (esp. pgs 180-200 in my copy) which suited my needs and 2) statements I wrote to address specific negative thoughts, based on the work in my Sarno journals.
EG - For a defeatist attitude and thinking that my experiences in the coming day(s) would turn out badly because they had in the past day(s)... "My past does not equal my future. I open myself to expect success and happy outcomes. I am comfortable with the unknown aspects of my future." (ie I don't *know* what the day will be like and that's ok.)
EG - For the feeling I get that I must always hurry, won't have time to do *anything* (paralyzing), and do not have the right to take my time (This was a HUGE discovery that tms journaling gave me; I was constantly being pushed along and hurried by my older siblings and parents and had (have?) a lot of rage about it.) .... "I have plenty of time to do the things I set out to do. I never feel rushed."
I look forward to typing all my bits and scraps of paper up into one good list sometime soon. I will start a new thread I think, link it to this one, and invite others to share their favorite affirmations. Maybe someone can link it to the Wiki too. What do you think? |
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 19:02:24
crk,
How were your affirmations different from Webdan's, since both of you based yours off of Helmstetter's book? |
| crk |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 09:28:49
As long as this thread has been bumped to the top anyway, I would like to mention that I have had HUGE success with the affirmations from the Helmstetter book in the past couple of weeks.
I didn't do as well with Webdan65's pain statements, probably because my brain managed to use them to focus more on pain. I am doing great these days but am susceptible to little pain "triggers" that are totally thought-linked.
I wrote out some of my own and some from Helmstetter ("What To Say When You Talk To Yourself") and put them on my iPod using free software called Audio Recorder. I begin EVERY day listening to how great my life is and how unstoppable I am. LOVE IT!!!!!
|
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 22:45:16
quote:
Originally posted by Webdan65
I agree completely about Noah's book. When you ask empowering questions - you are working with your brain and the BS meter doesn't go off.
For those who don't know what we're talking about:
The Secret Code of Success - by Noah St. John.
It's on Amazon.
A worthy read for anyone looking to reprogram your mind.
Did you see this thread also:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5601
Another vote for a deficiency in the subconscious reprogramming aspects of Sarno's method. |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 05:33:26
I agree completely about Noah's book. When you ask empowering questions - you are working with your brain and the BS meter doesn't go off.
For those who don't know what we're talking about:
The Secret Code of Success - by Noah St. John.
It's on Amazon.
A worthy read for anyone looking to reprogram your mind. |
| PRCalDude |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 21:37:26
Dan,
I've bought the St. John book and feel that there is more to his method of self-talk than the Sarno/affirmation method. The basic point about the mental "BS detector" that is triggered by simple affirmation statements is profound. I think this is lacking from the Sarno/Schechter methods of self-talk, which don't seem to work for a good chunk of people. |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 20:42:36
Truly humbled and honored. Big smile over here crk.
Dan |
| crk |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:28:28
Thanks so much, Dan. I had a recurrence of back pain this past few days, and the positive self talk is the only thing giving me relief. It is amazing. I have learned so much from you. |
| Webdan65 |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 18:58:26
CRK:
Thanks for your amazing reply.
You know, I've thought about and written about the Bull**** meter going off when we tell ourselves positive things that haven't yet happened. Yet I've never heard anyone put it as well as you did about how we let equally untrue negative talk fill our brain.
What a brilliant observation. Why is it that we believe the untrue negative thoughts and ignore the positive things we aspire to create in our lives?
I keep coming back to it: What you focus on magnifies.
Focus on negatives - they grow. Focus on positives and empowerment - that grows too. Choose your thoughts wisely.
Awesome stuff CRK. Thanks!
Dan |
| crk |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 08:42:58
Another great thread, Webdan! I just finished reading Helmstetter's book, on your recommendation. At first, there was a lot of eye-rolling, I must admit. I don't like being lied to or patronized, and at first that is how the book sounded to me. Weirdly, when I saw my spouse reading the book, I started to change my mind. He is one of the smartest men I have ever met in my life. It clicked suddenly that I had "permission" to believe. Weird, huh?
Anyway, I have been compiling my list of self talk phrases. My plan is to put them on my little pocket digital recorder. I may do a couple of different files: one general, one for running, and one for tms. But they all have similar messages.
I want to say that the reason I have stopped thinking of the positive talk as lies is that I compare it to the negative talk that already exists in my head every day. It's there for sure. Is it true? Will I run out of energy, be a failure, ruin my own life, be judged unworthy by everyone I care about? Of course not! But I've been letting THOSE messages through. This is a question of fighting fire with fire!! I am magnificent! I never worry! I choose my own obligations and never let others do it for me! I have plenty of energy to get through my day! Charge! Fire with fire.
I also believe that the truth is created with the talk. If I begin to worry, then tell myself, "I never worry. I am great a solving problems..." --then I am both handling a situation and also preventing the negative talk. Even "stop worrying!" is negative talk. It is not that the statements are lies, it is that I must choose one or the other and what I choose is going to happen. If the positive statements don't seem "true," I must remember they are the embodiment my Potential. I have the potential to succeed or fail. I know THAT is true, so it's just a question of what to pursue.
If TMS is my brain's path to a healthier mental state, positive self talk seems like a great vehicle to get there. |
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