| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| debbette |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 18:21:01
How do you think about what *might* be bothering you all the time and not get depressed? I have a hard time with this.
Thanks,
Debbie |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 10/27/2008 : 05:49:42
RSR,
That was a fascinating link about Redirecting Self Therapy.
I like this bit in The Biology of Emotions:
"All children are born with healthy anger, which is part of the fight or flight reaction. When parents mistreat or neglect us, even unintentionally, they often cause us to suppress our anger. No parent needs to be perfect, but we must be allowed to have justifiable anger. The suppression of anger is more damaging than the trauma itself. It causes a toxicosis that leads to anxiety and depression. Even the lullaby, "Hush little baby don't you cry," serves the parent, not the child."
Hilary N |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 10/26/2008 : 19:37:16
Thanks, Lori. I've actually been mulling over what you posted since you posted it! Since then, I have been more successful at resolving things in my journaling (well, getting somewhat closer at least!) using the idea of "upstream and downstream thoughts" from the book, "Astonishing Power of Emotions" as well as the "Cycle" from Laurel Mellin's "3-Day Solution Plan." Obviously there is "journaling" and "journaling" and I guess there are many many different ways to "think psychological." I wonder why Dr Sarno (who comes up regularly when I do "I feel grateful that..." ) didn't say more in his book about HOW to do the journaling ... Anyway, thanks for being such a champion for journaling .. I seem to be having better results these days.. |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 13:41:20
i'd also be wary of this whole "doing what i'm supposed to do" mindset. living your life trapped in a box like that will drive you totally mad. the funny thing about recovery, for me anyway, is that it's about learning to do less instead of more. i think that mostly the way i think is what causes my tms--the perfectionist mindset--so for me recovery is about learning to let go.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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| winnieboo |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 13:34:40
quote:
But isn't that what we're supposed to do when we notice symptoms?
When I notice symptoms, I usually find they're triggered by something that JUST HAPPPENED or that is happening THAT DAY. Then I have to get in touch with what emotion I'm suppressing, which is usually anger, but there can be some variation. Then, as Dave said, you try to follow those feelings back to last week, another situation, your childhood, whatever applies and you do so either in a journal, with a therapist, whatever works for you.
Example: I was feeling rejected by one of my nearly adult kids and my neck started killing me and I felt sick and weak all over. On the surface, I was smiling and cool...but later in the car I went through a host of feelings, all mixed up, confusion, exasperation and sadness. I started to cry (something I NEVER would have done before my TMS work). And it wasn't until several days later that I realized my tears weren't just sadness, but they were also about anger--I was so frustrated that I couldn't just explode! It wasn't appropriate! It would have hurt someone I was so enraged.
So, one SMALL incident IN THE PRESENT can trigger the pain, but the pain runs deeper. Listen, I've been stuffing anger for years, but this TMS process has helped me (among other things) understand what happened to make me angry, and why how I look at things makes my reactions so fierce. Getting better and neutralizing the pain and tension is a process, so you need a determined attitude. And as you can see from the example and what Dave has repeatedly said, there's really no way to know how aware you are of your issues. They catch you by surprise and as TMSers, we have old habits of dealing with and storing emotions. I'm repeatedly surprised by what's "under" a twinge or an entire week of pain or an illness (which people here tried to tell me was TMS-related while I kicked and screamed that it wasn't--well, yeah, actually it was!) Some of it's old familiar garbage for sure, but many surprises, too. |
| Dave |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 11:35:17
quote:
Originally posted by debbette
It just makes me depressed to focus on what's bothering me. I'm well aware of what the issues are and that they make me very angry, but thinking about them often seems counterproductive. There is nothing I can do to change the situation. I'm actually thinking that my negative thoughts might even be a big component of my TMS (besides the stress of course). I think looking at the problems with a more realistic (positive) outlook could be very helpful - without denying that it does still make me angry.
First of all, you cannot say with any certainty that "you are well aware of what ths issues are." This is a common trap. It is the things that we don't realize are bothering us that are the ingredients of TMS. It is how these issues affect us on a deeper level that fuel the symptoms.
Remember the rage that fuels TMS is unconscious and cannot be felt. That means, by definition, you are not aware of the real issues. The child inside you is in a rage. You need to do your best to figure out what issues in your life contribute to that rage and in what way. However, all you can do is try. You will never get confirmation that you are right, nor can you ever be certain that you have identified all the issues. The issues that make you "angry" on the surface affect the child inside you in a completely different way. You need to try to follow those feelings down inside you and see if you can identify the deeper emotions.
You seem to have a very negative attitude and that definitely contributes to your TMS. The "nothing I can do" attitude is detrimental to recovery. If you truly feel this way about your life, then deep down I'm sure you feel the same way about your TMS, that there is nothing you can do to stop the symptoms. You need to try to change your attitude. |
| mizlorinj |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 10:15:13
HI RSR: Excellent point you raise. How can we feel issues are resolved or even resolvable at all? It does not mean we have solved a problem, righted a perceived wrong, changed a situation we don't like. It means we come to terms with this issue and it is resolved IN OUR OWN MINDS. It has to do more with acceptance, forgiveness maybe? and then you can feel it is resolved.
So, example. TMS came along right around my 40th birthday. Without seeing aging as a stress somewhere, maybe a book, I would never have thought it bothered me. Well, when the pen started underneath "turning 40" at the top of the page, I realized there was a lot in there that needed to come out. Pages worth. Now I realize it is ok! Will I be 30 again? No! But I am going to make the rest of my 40s and onward the BEST time of my life. (thank you Louise Hay). And I feel it is all perfect for where I am right now. I am at peace with it and love & appreciate life.
Another example. Betrayed some years ago. This still enraged me till 1.5 years ago, so I wrote feelings letters to them: HOW DARE YOU, @#$%^&* etc. (burned the letters) and did my own journaling about the situation. I can now think about this situation and not get red hot with anger. I've gotten it all out. So the resolved feelings are MINE--not theirs. The positive side (I ALWAYS find one in everything) is that I believe they thought they were doing the right thing. I actually forgive them! With that, I let it go. Even feels good writing about it now.
Now, it's harder to feel resolved if we have to see certain people regularly or deal with a job we don't like every day, etc. But I'm sure there is a part that can be looked at through objective eyes and perhaps a valuable piece can be gleaned. And always keep in mind: we cannot change others, we can only change our view of them. We cannot change a past event, but we can change how we view it. And doing so is for our own good!
I learned my style of journaling through www . thepathway . org. And we look for a "reward" in everything. After feeling all the anger, sadness, fear, guilt, where we are being unreasonable, how we expect ourselves to view it now, the pain of the situation, we look for what could be considered the REWARD of it. Even something as simple as I AM READY TO HEAL THIS HURT NOW feels good to say.
Bottom line and back to initial post in this thread: I don't continue to dwell on things bothering me. I write because I feel I need to. You can journal or see a therapist or talk to a trusted friend. Still bothering you? Write or talk more. There must be more in there. You WILL get to a point where you FEEL a resolve about it. You need to believe that. And yes, digging into feelings is new to a lot of us. But it really does work. Unpeel the artichoke to get to the HEART. It seems many keep coming back to this board with ailments not healed or something new has popped up, but they have NOT done the therapy part of the treatment plan. Dr. Sarno isn't the only one recommending journaling about things to get them off us. MANY docs, psyDs, and others are recommending it too. Many onthis board say they felt better even after typing their issue. What does that say? getting it off you does work!
I hope this long explanation helps. Be happy to answer any questions or show you how your example can be used too!
-Lori |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 07:51:13
I don't think it has to be "either/or" .... I think doing both has kind of worked for me (for the headache issues, anyway.)
I do my journaling during "journaling time" and then when symptoms come up during the day I use the Brady techniques of self-talk and visualizing turning down the Autonomic speedometer and that often helps to abort the headache.
How long have you been doing the "journaling thing"? I know Lori talks about coming to a sense of resolution / healing around the things on our "lists" but it seems many of my major ones are not really resolvable, either (or maybe I just haven't figured out how to do that.)
I do find "Redirecting Self Therapy" (do a google search) helpful at times.. well, at least the part where she says this:
"In those years in hospitals only one nurse had a sense of what I needed. She came to my room where I was tied to a bed in restraint, untied me, and gave me a tray of plastic dishes. "Throw these at the wall, dear," she said. Had I known to picture my parents on the wall, I might have begun to heal."
;o)
And ... don't forget the SOOTHING part of the ratio, in your life in general! |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 07:43:38
Hi Debbette,
I have the same reaction to journaling. I journaled in the beginning of my TMS journey (last January), stopped in the Spring and recently went back to it and like you, I've gotten worse. I find that when I journal, I tend to fill the pages with negative thoughts, often obsessive ones. One thing I've learned is that trying to figure out or resolve obsessive thoughts is impossible!
I was just talking with my therapist about this and she was supportive of my pulling back from the journaling when it's negative. She added that when the content is about what's happening in my life, as in the current topical issues that I'm thinking about and facing--what is REAL--then it can be helpful and cathartic. But, the negative content is counterproductive.
For me, therapy has been the most helpful tool, even though it's also difficult and occasionally I yearn to run away from that. It's good for me to have a sounding board and neutral person who can immediately mirror back to me that I'm being negative, obsessive or self critical. I tend to be extremely hard on myself. This comes out in my journal and is depressing.
To switch my mind back to positive, I try to refocus on things I like: time with family, cooking or reading a novel. This is all new to me--it's a true, self-imposed (or therapy imposed!) rehabituation. For awhile I was very into self-help books but found that they can be negative for me also. I am very suggestible and with the books, I find that I sometimes get caught up in feeling like so much went wrong in my past, that there is so much about me to change, that I have such a long way to go, etc.--all not true, but I go there nonetheless. So, good old self discipline (telling myself to think positive and to turn off the negativity switch) is probably the most excellent approach, but I have to be in a strong enough place to activate that. |
| debbette |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 06:58:05
Yes... I get hung up on the journaling thing (which I try to do for 20 mins a day). It doesn't seem to work for me. It just makes me depressed to focus on what's bothering me. I'm well aware of what the issues are and that they make me very angry, but thinking about them often seems counterproductive. There is nothing I can do to change the situation. I'm actually thinking that my negative thoughts might even be a big component of my TMS (besides the stress of course). I think looking at the problems with a more realistic (positive) outlook could be very helpful - without denying that it does still make me angry.
The TMS Dr.that I saw suggested Pain Free for Life. I've been trying to follow Dr. Brady's plan but I just hate the journaling. I can't decide if it's because I'm getting to the deeper, painful emotions and that's good or if it's too much focus on the negative and that's making me worse. My "pain" (tingling/buzzing in my feet) has revved up since I started the journaling but I'm not sure why - good or bad?
I'm kind of stuck right now on which way to go. |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 23:32:21
Debette, if you're thinking about this *all the time* and then getting depressed because of it, then that might be enraging. ;o)
There are different ways to approach this. I like Dr Scott Brady's idea of "turning down the autonomic "speedometer" and I like Rachel's suggestion:
"Try spending half an hour without dwelling on your chronic pain. Before you start pick a thought-topic that you can focus on every time thoughts about your RSI come up. For example: your sister's upcoming wedding, taking your cat to the vet, a painting you like -- nothing too stressful but something meaty enough to focus on."
Recently, Monte (on the 25) posted some of his thoughts on how to approach this:
"You can find a thought that brings you some relief, that begins to switch your focus and swing your mood away from the pain, or away from the life situation that you are focusing on."
I do think it's important to be very mindful of the "rage/soothe" ratio in general, and if thinking about what might be bothering you all the time is making you more "enraged than soothed" then maybe try a different approach?
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| winnieboo |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 17:38:40
I think the idea is to turn away from the pain and look at what's happening in your life, be it good or bad. I'm still trying to learn this. My knee-jerk reaction to pain, now that I'm deep into the TMS work, has been to journal, or look for the emotional pain that's underlying everything. However, I've noticed over the past few months that sometimes if I just relax and live my life, it takes my mind off the physical pain or whatever emotions I might be obsessing about instead. For example, I've been in pain all day, but friends just came by for dinner and I feel so much better physically...
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| debbette |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 17:15:00
But isn't that what we're supposed to do when we notice symptoms? |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 16:33:50
you're right. if i continually had to think about what might be bothering me i'd be pretty depressed.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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