| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 09:29:38
Or it seems that way in my life. I'm still in the midst of tms agony. Having said that, I feel trying too hard keeps me in the calendar phenomenon.
Whenever I read a new tms or self help book I think "this is it" and imagine running bk to the forum to post my success story. Not just any story, it's gotta be the best.
Does this create or reduce stress in my life? I think u know the answer.
I don't know how to stop this urge. It's taken over every thing in my life and I feel it perpetuates the God awful pain.
This urge has been around long before full blown tms. I used to love to lift weights for fun, and just when I was looking, feeling good, I screwed everything up trying to be the best. Same with golf. At one time I steadily brought my score down enjoying the game. Then my game got embarrassing trying to be the tiger woods of my pals.
So what to do? I've tried to stay off the board, I've journaled self esteem issues ad-nauseum.
I recovered in 2003 Originally w/ out trying. It just happened w/ no expectations after reading the book. And I only read the book because it felt good to read.
After the relapse, I attacked the books, journaling, forum w/ intensity I was gonna beat this thing. See where that got me?
So just do the oppositte right? How? How when you can't sit,stand or lie down w/out discomfort. And you can't smile. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 19:39:35
Great thread! While we're "listing" books / resources, just thought I'd mention one that doesn't seem to have come up: Eugene Gendlin's Focusing.
Focusing is an extremely gentle and warm, accepting approach. It is something I have returned to again and again, over the decades. While it wasn't something I explicitly used with my initial Sarno work with headaches/sinus pain, I am using it for the anxiety/depression equivalents which come up from time to time.
For those in pain, you might be interested in these articles:
A Remarkable Focusing Session with Pain from Severe Physical Damage
http://www.focusingresources.com/articles/severephysicaldamage.html
Focusing with Small Physical Ailments
http://www.focusingresources.com/articles/smallphysicalailments.html
You might be interested in (Focusing teacher) Ann Weiser Cornell's book, The Radical Acceptance of Everything. Here's links to excerpts from the book:
Radical Gentleness: The Transformation of the Inner Critic
http://www.focusingresources.com/downloads/radical_gentleness.pdf
http://www.focusingresources.com/downloads.html
Of course, lots more articles here:
http://www.focusingresources.com/articles/main.html
and basic information about Focusing plus lots of Q and A here:
http://www.focusingresources.com/faqs.html
ALSO.. as another general comment on this thread: don't forget the importance of the SOOTHING !!! While "attacking the books, journaling, forum" etc is something I do too, I do try to remind myself that it is the basic soothe/rage ratio which Sarno wrote about, that is key for me!! In fact, I am beginning to wonder whether just changing the ratio (ie radically increasing the soothing elements in my life) is not more important than the journaling for me at this point.
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 19:11:58
Me, GOODIST, whaaaat?
(God-ist - well maybe!)
   
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 16:10:03
Hm, that's an interesting thought. Maybe it's not so much that these things work for us, as that we are able to work them for ourselves. ;)
I feel very meta now.
--
What were you expecting? |
| stanfr |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 13:13:34
Agreed, ACL; i was being somewhat facetious. I've read all of the above and there is definitely some value to it, i really would like to devote more time to meditation etc myself. I do think that the package is somewhat deceptive, though, and whether it "works" for some is debatable. A placebo doesn't have to be a sugar pill, it can also be sugar-coated advice. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 12:38:21
Stanfr, I understand you're just being 'wicked' and believe me I've had some of the same types of feelings about those guys, but Tolle and Jon Kabat-Zinn and Byron Katie and those guys are not saying we can be "thought-free", but that not being attached to our thoughts lets us have more contact with reality instead of living in our own little world (often constructed of anxiety and pain). Thoughts come and go inevitably. It's letting them actually come and then go that these guys are talking about.
If it doesn't work for you, whatever. It didn't for me for a long time either, it's probably not a great approach for everyone, but I think at least a few of them (the ones who are talking about letting thoughts come and go/mindfulness medititation/living in reality) are offering something of value.
--
What were you expecting? |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 16:55:54
quote:
Originally posted by stanfr
all these thought-free folks
oh God, so funny, but so sickening about how I'm losing my mind.  |
| stanfr |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 13:47:56
Hey Wavy, stop showing your goodist tendencies! 
I get a kick out of hearing about the mass-consumption of all the self-help guru guides, reminds me of fad diets. The prophets may say they know the 'truth', but really they're completely clueless about the physical and for that matter psychological basis of these disorders. That's why they always couch the "answer" in metaphysical or spiritual terms. Can't fault that, though, since science doesnt have the answer either. If the "answer" were really known, it would already be packaged in a pill right now, and people would be moaning about how it's really a vast conspiracy promoted by the pharmaceutical Comps or maybe the govt. And, i wonder if 'thoughts' are so insignificant, whether all these thought-free folks would really need their publicists and 6-figure speaking engagements. Just thought id throw that cynical thought into the mix for your reading pleasure. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 12:53:09
I love this thread - especially the account of all the things Skizzik has done. Ha ha, been there, done all that too, even taught all that ...
So at the risk of becoming a Pariah and being voted off the boards, I'm gonna mention what is REALLY working for me. I haven't mentioned it - been secretly integrating it with Sarno and all the other stuff for nearly two years. For me, it's the missing piece.
And I know what I'm going to recommend can be very off-putting at first. It can look like something else. The author died in 1964, so isn't "spiritually correct." But WAS associated with enormous numbers of complete healings through realizing the unreality of illness.
What this adds to Sarno, for me, is the "God" piece. Not just impersonal space or "now"ness, which are groovy, but the actual realization of oneness with The One.
But it can seem like some kind of Christian trip - it ISN'T.
Okay - after all that fanfare I'm going to say it... but I'll just say one more thing: Eckhart Tolle, Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson and many others cite this guy as their main spiritual inspiration...
read anything by JOEL GOLDSMITH.
Especially, for example, his first book, The Infinite Way, or The Art of Spiritual Healing... go on Amazon and see what appeals to you out of his 40 or so books.
Okay, I said it. Hope you still like me!
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 12:41:48
attempt to delete double post |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/23/2008 : 08:30:30
thanx armchair. You carry the water here, thanx for that.
winnie, your presence here is very uplifting.
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| winnieboo |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 17:37:34
That's the whole of it armchair. That's everything. That's how to get well, too, when you can embrace that. I had the same revelation recently that Tolle et.al, the buddhist thinkers, (good) psychotherapists, even hypnotists are all on to the same thing--acceptance of reality, understanding that thoughts are just thoughts and the importance of not being so invested or identified with those thoughts.
Yes, profound and simple.
It's not so easy to grasp! And then it's a new commitment to stay with the shift in thinking that occurs.
Anyway, I had to hear it from six different sources in several different permutations before I finally got it and then I started to get better physically. Gradually. And I have to say that this is why I'm in such awe of people who get better by just reading the Sarno book or are able to do it by the calendar. It took me months, while I lived the life of a near cripple! So hang in the skizzik, everybody's different. At least we're all reading the right books and talking to the right group of intelligent and compassionate people! |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 16:46:54
Hey skiz, I did get turned off by Byron Katie at first but I have reread the book recently and really appreciate it. I made a few posts in some threads where it came up about eating my words. :)
I didn't quite get it before. I still don't completely, but I find it so helpful. At first I didn't understand how deep it is. You don't just get to give the easy answers, you have to be receptive to the deeper answers. I also didn't understand the point of it at first, it wasn't until I read the whole book that I realized she and Tolle and Jon Kabat-Zinn and kind of everyone are all talking about the same thing: a radical acceptance of reality, an understanding that the world we create in our thoughts is not the real world, and by becoming less attached to our thoughts we can have contact with the real world.
It's very simple yet profound. Like meditation, or Sarno, in that way. :)
I admire you for persevering right now even though you are really down. I think this is the best we can do for ourselves when we are in pain -- keep looking for what is going to work, even if it's not ultimately one thing or the expected thing.
--
What were you expecting? |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 13:17:14
From "loving what is":
It's important to realize that inquiry is about noticing, not about dropping the thought. That is not possible. If you think that I'm asking you to drop the thought, hear this; it's about realizing what's true for you, through awareness and unconditional self love. Once you see the truth, the thought lets go of "you", not the other way around. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 09:42:19
Mentally perhaps, thanx.
I read "power of now". Heck I've read 98% of everything reccomended here.
I went from thinking it was my meal ticket to getting lost in mantra and giving up on the last 3 chptrs.
I was digging it, and was reminded of what Monte always comes here to say. I read Monte's book a few times and I could'nt beat the thoughts or chatter w/ his technique, but ask my wife, I've spent alot of time meditating.
I then got swept away by "facing the fire" only to get depressed
In the last chapter and see that IMHO the author is just plain tortured by his past and is not at peace himself.
Then I jumped to "the journey". My journey ended after chapter 5 or so. However, I was intrigued enough to call the nearest "journey" practitioner I could find. And she now reccomends "the work" by Byron Katie. Hmmmm.
Then I jumped into the "sedona method", this is it! Just let go of those thoughts that stress you. A week later I "let go" of the book. Bummer, cause I dig "the secret" which is incorporated w/ sedona.
Oh...I've done the claire weeks method to the point where I crossed out and substituted back pain wherever it said anxiety and read it and lived it ad nauseum. Nothing there.
Now back in march I went to go see dr. Schubiner. He confirmed Tms which I figured but was hoping it would sink in to my subconcious to hear it from an m.d. He threw me into his online program which i couldn't find relief from. But I've phone chatted with many who were cured by it. (On a side note, don't assume seeing a tms dr. Is your ticket home.)
Anyways I call him for reasurrance probably once a month now. (Used to be twice a week) He's hangin in there with me, but how often can I keep going to the well? (BB65 Can get a chuckle out of that lol.)
It's not whether its structural or tms reassurance, it's a more of what else can I do to get rid of this mentally....ok, so two mos ago he reccomends the most incredible book he ever read "loving what is" and it's written by Byron Katie.
So after 2 Reccomendations and some positive feedback on the board here about her I've been reading it. And she's highly endorsed by Eckart Tolle. I'm not turned off by her yet. From reading her and watching her on youtube there seems to be no motivation for profit, just a genuine path to help others like Sarno.
I've come to the realization I may never become painfree because my past triumph puts me into the calendar phenomenon on steroids with this relapse. But if I'm gonna find peace w/ my situation, I feel this could be it. I watched her on oprah on you tube this morning. And oprah whos influenced by the secret said "oh I know, I should just let go" and katie chirped in and said "I'm not asking you to let go, I say question that thought".
I could see where this would work because you can argue w/ your thoughts all day, but questioning them seems to stump them. Just like arguing w/ someone can go on ad nauseum, but ask them if what they are saying is true? Ask them is they absolutely know it's true. What do they do? They hesitate. It stops them.
"The Work" is 4 simple questions. Yet it's so profound that Dr. Schubiner has made it part of his program in week 4 the final week.
This is just where I am right now, and maybe were I'll always be w/ my pain in hand. Or maybe I'll be onto something else next week.
"Sky" was cured of pain by incorporating katie w/ sarno, and I know "armchair" has read her and was turned off by some of what she said, I think I know what she's referring to. But it w/b great if some of you sufferers would watch her and read her and do the work on your stressful toughts and let us know if you've found some peace and joy.
Hey, lets start a book club! Ha ha.
Edit: btw, I was trying to comprehend everything "lakevin" was trying to explain for a couple weeks, he's outta here and pain free too. Cool, i'd be outta here too if painfree. Anyways, he was cured in an instant wen his therapist asked him a question. He didnt argue w/ kevin, but the question was good enough to halt his chronic thinking thaqt kept him in pain.
Also another kevin (kjarvis) who wrote the book "personal underground" was cured having his thoughts questioned.
I think sarno's daily reminders possibly make us argue w/ ourselves instead of accept and question. But what do I know? My back is killing me ha ha! |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 11:54:53
Are you feeling any better? |
| skizzik |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 06:03:38
Thanx guys. |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 16:14:32
Oh, yeah, love "The Power of Now." Check out Pema Chodron's "Start Where You Are, and Charlotte Beck's "Everyday Zen." Sorry for the length of that last post by the way...should have previewed it, first..didn't realize! |
| winnieboo |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 15:50:24
Well, I'm far from a vet... I'm pretty new to the forum, but I accepted my TMS diagnosis in January and beat one layer of pain (neck, shoulder, elbow). Still feeling a little vulnerable. But skizzik, I hear your feelings of defeat and sorry you're still in agony.
Remember that while it may feel like you're stuck in a tunnel, there is light at the end of it, even if you have to slog through some general sewage to get there. You mention that you've been on the board, so you must know that if you stay committed, you will get there--again, even if you have to try this time.
As for your urge to have the "best" success story? That's a tough one. You know that's your TMS perfectionism on some level. Of course you also know that no one is expecting a great or "best" story from you or anyone else. It's a little like TMS doubt, or the pain itself, isn't it? Having the "best" story is like a distraction from the work you (and we all) must do to progress through our personal tunnels. I have those urges, too, if you will--I call them persistent ruminations. It's a bit of an OCD thing in my case, but it's very related to TMS in that it's definitely a distraction from thinking about what's real and what I have to do or face.
As for the calendar phenom: well, your calendar this time just isn't the same calendar as in your 2003 recovery. It just isn't. Must be some different issues, that's all, and you'll get there. My calendar didn't match the one in the Sarno books and I felt inadequate and frustrated for months. And I was already in therapy... So allow yourself to take whatever time you need.
In the meantime, why stay off the board? Reaching out to other people might garner for you some additional nuggets that will ring true for you.
And finally, since I mentioned therapy, have you considered that at all? It was very important for me. In fact, after reading the Sarno books and making little progress with the therapist I was seeing then, I had to switch to a new therapist who understood what I was talking about. I'm grateful for the therapy, b/c even though I read the Sarno books over and thought I truly believed (that I had TMS and could beat it), I see now that my tendencies to be stubborn and complicated stalled me out, time and time again.
In my case, there were many things that I was afraid to face on a subconscious level, and that perpetuated my need to cling to "maybe this isn't TMS." That was in the very back of my mind until just a few months ago and while I'd go through most days being 99% convinced, that niggling, questioning 1% held me back 100%.
I needed another person to continually remind me that I somatize (my loose definition: evading emotions and expressing them as physical symptoms). And I needed another person to help me believe that I was in control. When I started to believe that I was in control, I slowly got better.
The therapy wasn't exactly pleasant and still isn't b/c even though on the outside I was a normal person with a "great family" and a "great job" etc., etc., my interior was pretty fundamentally upset--childhood stuff (still at age 48), low self-esteem, perfectionism, guilt (most of it just stupid and inappropriate) and heaps of anger. The therapy cleared some of that out and I can't explain it any simpler than to say I just feel less overwhelmed.
So, if I could get better, I KNOW others can, too.
Hope this helps and hang in there!
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| Rooster |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 15:14:20
Hey skizzik
Try reading 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle. You already sound like you acknowledge that your competitive streak is born of a need to prove yourself (i.e. a form of low self esteem). The Tolle book helps you to recognise your behaviour and separate yourself from it. It's very simple and doesn't require loads more journalling/self discovery etc. It may well be the last book you need to read on the subject! |
| MAbbott |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:46:24
Try reading Wayne Dyer's The Power of Intention. Maybe your intention for good health isn't so clear.
mabbott |
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