| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 15:56:36
Please talk me down off of this ledge. I am about to lose my sh*t.
I got a recommendation for a psychiatrist. I made an appointment with her because I wanted to talk to someone about psychosomatic illnesses and get a temporary prescription for Xanax. Within the first 5 minutes, I told her that I would not under any circumstances take any anti-depressant medication. She then spent the next 50 minutes trying to talk me into taking anti-depressant medication. She told me I need intense therapy two days a week including bio-feedback and Cymbalta.
She told me she does not like Xanax because it's too addictive. Yes, I know Xanax is a patch, but so is Cymbalta, and I told her that. She said she respected my opinion, but disagreed. I told her Xanax helps with the pain and I just want it to help with bad days until I can work through other ways of getting rid of it. She told me my symptoms would not go away without an anti-depressant medication--which I don't believe because I still had symptoms when I was on anti-deps in the past, and the side effects were worse than the symptoms they were supposed to treat. I told her this and she told me I was on the wrong dosage.  I told her I have a friend on Cymbalta for back pain and it's not working and she's experiencing awful side effects. She just blew me off and kept pushing the Cymbalta.
I walked out of there feeling worse than when I had walked in and I still don't have any Xanax. Now I have serious doubts about whether or not I can get rid of the pain and my IBS on my own. She totally messed with my head, and I am seriously pissed off about it. Shockingly, my back pain isn't too bad right now, but I'll get back to you in a few hours. I might have a different story for you.
Tell me if you have been on anti-anxiety medication for your pain and tell me if it's worked or not. Tell me about all the awful side effects of the medication and give me lots of reasons not to take it. Tell me this woman is a crackpot and I don't need her or her pills.  |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| joli |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 17:05:59
Personally i think that some people just cannot tolerate the ssri stuff and it is better not to try again.
If it does help in the past, sure why not for a short term.
Personally, i think that a low dose of clonopin when you have to is better than a daily dose of who knows what it does to you.
and it is addictive or at lease you can not just stop taking it.
i know that valume helps pain for some people but it is not a solution.
you need to have a good relationship with a doc and then it is easier to work with them.
I think therefore I am. |
| Logan |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 09:24:36
I feel empathy for how angry and upset you were by this experience. I'd feel the same way. You have a right to decide the course of your own treatment and many, many reasons to be wary of SSRIs, specifically Cymbalta!
My mother is bipolar and needs to be medicated to maintain a certain level of sanity; she needs her SSRI and the various meds in her cocktail. All the same, I see the toll these drugs have taken on her and even in her extreme case I question whether these drugs are doing more harm than good. She has symptoms of early onset dementia (she's in her 50s and acts like she's in her 80s); she perseverates (tells the same stories again and again), she has a tendency to make up things that never happened (like she insists she was able to plug in and use this antique radio that I now own, which has big chunks of the wires missing and blown tubes).
My one experience with Zoloft, which an MD prescribed to help with my back/neck pain (that I ended up curing two years laer through Sarno's technique, was not good. I can't believe psychiatrists are prescribing this **** to help with IBS because it GAVE me IBS. I couldn't leave my house without taking 3 Immodium tablets every morning like vitamins. It did nothing for the pain on top of that.
Stand your ground on this issue. If SSRIs feel wrong to you, don't take them. Try to find a psychologist who is less gung ho about prescriptions and more interested in somatic pain. If there's not one in your immediate area, you might consider doing phone sessions with a Sarno trained psych or just someone whose philosophy more closely meshes with yours.
I was able to work with a psych in AZ (I now live in CO) who wasn't a Sarno devotee but who did believe in the mindbody connection. She helped me see through the veil I had constructed, the one that let me believe my childhood "wasn't that bad." She helped me see I had a lot of built up anger and that I needed to learn how to express it kinetically, to get it "out."
I only saw her for a couple of months and then bought Facing the Fire (Lee) and did the anger release exercises he recommends, journaled, raged, cried, etc. I was pain free within 6 mos. of doing the above. You CAN kick this! You are the one with the power to do this; any help you get from someone with a PhD or MA behind their name is just icing on the cake!
And drugs? Who needs 'em? Even the pharma companies (I used to transcribe corporate meeting calls) don't know how they work or why; and they were never "made" to help with 90% of the off label stuff they get prescribed for. In fact, they weren't made for anything in particular. What pharmaco's do is concoct something and then try to figure out what it could be prescribed for. It's completely ass-backwards and all about the $$.
Maybe we all should get t-shirts made up that say DARE to keep TMSers off Drugs!
|
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 20:44:01
PV, the therapist Schechter formerly worked with was Don Dubin, not Dugan.
hott -- I am seeing an LCSW as well. It's the approach they use, not the degree they have, that makes them a good fit for TMS-related stuff and/or for you personally.
Did your LCSW recommend the psychiatrist to you? If not, then maybe he/she could suggest one that's a better fit.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 18:59:58
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I would suggest you put this entire experience out of your mind and refocus on the suggested treatment. It still seems that you have not fully accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you.
For the record, I am seeing a LCSW also, so I am not 100% in the dark on psychoanalysis. I am not in a geographical area to find a Sarno trained psychoanalyst, which is unfortunate because I live in a very large urban area. I am basically going into this blind and it is probably going to take a lot of trail and error before I find someone who can work with me. Lastly, I do not agree with the above bolded statement and I do not understand how you can possibly make that assessment based on this post.
It is an opinion based on the overall content and tone of several of your posts. Even in this message you said: ...I have serious doubts about whether or not I can get rid of the pain and my IBS on my own. If you truly believe you have TMS then you should have faith that if you follow the treatment suggestions, you will get better.
Don't get me wrong -- this is not meant to be derrogatory in any way. It is common in the early stages to have doubt. Sometimes what you want to believe is not the same as how you truly feel.
I must say it is somewhat contradictory that you would get so upset at the doctor for suggesting anti-depressants, yet you admit that you were seeking a prescription for anti-anxiety medication. I realize they are two different medications, but nevertheless, you are seeking to treat the symptoms. Nothing wrong with that ... but just be honest with yourself. |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:39:04
Xanax is a benzo and is extremely addictive. I have used periodic Valium, which is also a benzo so I make sure that I use it VERY sparingly, for anxiety but it never helped with my headaches or sciatica. |
| positivevibes |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 11:19:41
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I would suggest you put this entire experience out of your mind and refocus on the suggested treatment. It still seems that you have not fully accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you.
For the record, I am seeing a LCSW also, so I am not 100% in the dark on psychoanalysis. I am not in a geographical area to find a Sarno trained psychoanalyst, which is unfortunate because I live in a very large urban area. I am basically going into this blind and it is probably going to take a lot of trail and error before I find someone who can work with me. Lastly, I do not agree with the above bolded statement and I do not understand how you can possibly make that assessment based on this post.
You could always have a phone consultation or two with Arnold Bloch, who is in Los Angeles. I found him very helpful. I have spoken with him twice. He is working with Dr. Schechter, who is Dr. Sarno's "west coast" colleague. Dr. Schechter had previously been working with Don Dugan, but Mr. Dugan is extremely ill and has given his patients to Mr. Bloch. I forget Mr. Bloch's exact credentials but when I spoke to him on the phone I remember that he was extremely involved in Sarno and the whole TMS thing. He's rather expensive but can reduce his fee if you feel you can't afford his regular rates.
**********
You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:56:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I would suggest you put this entire experience out of your mind and refocus on the suggested treatment. It still seems that you have not fully accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you.
For the record, I am seeing a LCSW also, so I am not 100% in the dark on psychoanalysis. I am not in a geographical area to find a Sarno trained psychoanalyst, which is unfortunate because I live in a very large urban area. I am basically going into this blind and it is probably going to take a lot of trail and error before I find someone who can work with me. Lastly, I do not agree with the above bolded statement and I do not understand how you can possibly make that assessment based on this post. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:01:19
The fact is, most psychiatrists take this approach.
It is why Dr. Sarno explicitly prescribes psychoanalysis for his patients, with therapists who are specifically trained in getting to the root of psychogenic symptoms.
Your expectations were not reasonable. A psychiatrist is not trained to treat TMS.
If you want to treat your symptoms as TMS, then you really need to follow the recommended treatment. If you are not in position to see Dr. Sarno or a therapist specifically trained in treating psychogenic conditions, a psychiatrist is really not a good alternative. They are trained to medicate their patients.
Even most psychologists these days will push CBT techniques and not psychoanalysis. You need to find a therapist who is not a Freud basher and is open to the opinion that physical symptoms can be caused by repressed emotions, and to treat you on that level.
I would suggest you put this entire experience out of your mind and refocus on the suggested treatment. It still seems that you have not fully accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you. |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 09:12:37
quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
In my opinion...SSRI drugs are very dangerous. A drug that fools your brain chemistry to halt uptake, and then flood the brain with excessive natural hormones to "correct an imbalance" is fishy business. Over a long period, the brain can actually damage. Synapses and neurons fire randomly and I don't believe they fully recover. Don't believe me, try to withdraw off of Paxil or some others. Your brain "zaps" and your body twicthes, a result of misfiring. Nature did NOT intend this.
I have been on 7 different types of SSRI drugs in my life. They started me out early as a teen when it was all the early hype. They never worked, and if they did work, they made me feel like I was living in some surreal dream state.
30 minutes of exercise a day can give the same benefits,just moderate exercise works. Changing thinking patterns and getting to the bottom of why we feel or perceive things certain ways, is the only real solution. Thoughts create the imbalances that give anxiety and depression. Please note, I'm not talking about Bipolar Disorder or Schizophrenia, but even they too can have a psychological strengthener.
But moderate depression and anxiety cases all have the greatest success with CBT, behavior modification, changing outlook, changing negative patterns, etc.
We all know that the drugs are a bandaid, and a bad one at that.
It's easy for someone outside to say " Drugs are bad mkayyyy", but when it comes to SSRIs, I give the big thumbs down. FAIL!!!!(to the pharma companies)
---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
I've been on SSRI's in the past. When I was cooking up ways to off myself 7 years ago, I needed them. (Incidentally, my back pain started 7 years ago. How about we work on that first and instead of jumping into a pharmaceutical?) Now, I don't think I need them. The last medication I was on was Paxil. It worked well as an anti-dep, but it killed any ounce of sex drive I had, and I had that brain ZAP thing while weaning off of it. I describe it as feeling like I was being electrocuted. It took me three months to finally get off the fricken pills.
When I made the appointment with this doctor, I was looking for help with psychosomatic reactions and looking for other ways to deal with them. Taking pills with bad side effects will just give me another set of stressors that I don't need. I don't want to lie awake all night or feel like I'm being electrocuted. I don't want to feel nauseated or anxious or more depressed or look my husband in the face and tell him I never want to have sex with him again. I'd rather just live with the pain.
I'm sure this doctor sees patients every day who truly need to be medicated. I don't think I'm one of those people, and I'm seriously irritated that she started talking about drugs after taking 10 minutes of my personal history. I never even once mentioned the word anxiety, and I never discussed any anxiety induced behavioral symptoms, but she had me diagnosed with an anxiety disorder pretty quickly. B.S.!!! |
| pandamonium |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 06:42:42
I was on a low dose antidepressant for my back pain, it worked for about 2 months and then the pain came back just as bad as before. They then doubled the dose but I didn't really notice any benefit.
Thankfully at that point I found Sarno and stopped taking all meds. I asked a sympathetic GP for a prescription pain killer to use on days when I am so bad I can't walk and he prescribed one which has made me much happier and much more in control than I was before.
Panda |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 00:09:19
I have had the same discussion with a doctor many times.
Usually, I didn't listen to them, but filled out my 'own prescription' via their ear-pen, and than wondered why I never got any better?
I 'told' them what was wrong with me, knew what would fix me (and what wouldn't) and than if there was any time left, might give them a small eenth of my ear, quickly discarded when I got the meds (or my opinions corroborated)
I'm not saying this to anger you....I really mean it...I did that and in reflection, I wasted a lot of their time and mine. I could have ordered the meds off the internet faster and easier, especially if you calculate the time (waiting room, appointments,line at pharmacy,etc)
Doctors prescribe drugs. If you go to one you will usually leave with one or more scraps of paper...whoever gave them their last trip to hawaii or PDA is more than likely who they are pushing for.
If you really want psychological help, you might consider going to someone who can't prescribe drugs.... a friend..... a pastor or a rabbi. There are a lot of Psychologists (not psychiatrists) who are very competent.
I saw one years ago when the anger and anxiety were overwhelming me....right after I had left the office of the SSRI-prescribing shrink who I had told NOT to prescribe me SSRI's.
In all fairness, I know someone near to me who is on SSRI's right now and having a semi-positive experience with them. This person got waaaay better in the short term, but the pink cloud experience seems to be waning...
None the less, you might want to separate your meds from your counseling....in the modern day world it's sort of a built-in conflict of interest.
You are not alone.
-bb65
|
| simplyfree |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 23:37:04
I agree with LA about drugs in general. The only SSRI I've ever been on was Zoloft. No major side effects but I felt more depressed on it than off. Most of my anxiety was associated with thyroid issues. Once those were addressed I didn't see the need to keep medicating without results.
There are 'natural' supplements to help your mind relax - 5htp, Kava, L-theanine, Sam-E and many others. They all work differently. You have to educate yourself well about how they work and potential side-effects, interactions, just as with Rx. They don't give you the drugged feeling many are looking for but can help take the edge off if you find the right one. But you can't over emphasize being self-educated as to what you take internally. Anything can cause side effects.
In my experience dealing with anxiety means addressing it from several aspects and being patient while they take effect. It's easier to do when things haven't reached the breaking point. If I'm experiencing a TMS pain having a little Ativan on hand to take the edge off doesn't hurt.
If it's possible to put this bad experience behind you and keep moving forward it may help shift you in the direction you need to go right now. If you feel you need to find another doctor, keep looking. Screening them ahead of time is a good idea. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 21:09:15
In my opinion...SSRI drugs are very dangerous. A drug that fools your brain chemistry to halt uptake, and then flood the brain with excessive natural hormones to "correct an imbalance" is fishy business. Over a long period, the brain can actually damage. Synapses and neurons fire randomly and I don't believe they fully recover. Don't believe me, try to withdraw off of Paxil or some others. Your brain "zaps" and your body twicthes, a result of misfiring. Nature did NOT intend this.
I have been on 7 different types of SSRI drugs in my life. They started me out early as a teen when it was all the early hype. They never worked, and if they did work, they made me feel like I was living in some surreal dream state.
30 minutes of exercise a day can give the same benefits,just moderate exercise works. Changing thinking patterns and getting to the bottom of why we feel or perceive things certain ways, is the only real solution. Thoughts create the imbalances that give anxiety and depression. Please note, I'm not talking about Bipolar Disorder or Schizophrenia, but even they too can have a psychological strengthener.
But moderate depression and anxiety cases all have the greatest success with CBT, behavior modification, changing outlook, changing negative patterns, etc.
We all know that the drugs are a bandaid, and a bad one at that.
It's easy for someone outside to say " Drugs are bad mkayyyy", but when it comes to SSRIs, I give the big thumbs down. FAIL!!!!(to the pharma companies)
---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 18:17:11
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I guess try again, if you are really looking for a prescription right now -- either another kind of doctor or another psychiatrist. Maybe you can ask to speak to the next doctor on the phone before you come it to see if your approaches are more compatible. What this doctor was doing is not, IMO, medically or psychologically appropriate.
I guess if I might suggest that you try seeing a therapist if you can, first, which might give you more context for dealing with the psychiatrist and might help give you a better overview of where you are psychologically and physically.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 17:22:03
quote:
Originally posted by LuvtoSew
I will never take another antidepressant.
This is how I feel. Doctors tried to treat my IBS with anti-depressants, and I went through a bad depression 7 years ago and went back on them again. I do not want to take another one, and I'm not even convinced that it will do anything for my back pain or my IBS. |
| LuvtoSew |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 17:07:14
My neuro game me Cymbalta a year ago and I ended up in er the third day, I could barely walk, BP went up to 220/165 (way high for me) and my head went numb.
My tmj dentist told me a week ago that he had a patient that was on Cymbalta and she got lock jaw, they took her off it and it went away.
I feel cymbalta is awful, I know it works for some people but alot of people have terrible side effects.
I use to be on Balcofen for muscle spasms for MS but it made my whole body weak, so now I'm on Valium 5 mg prn. I am mainly having facial muscle spasms that I take it for.
Once I took Pamelor for a week and couldn't sleep on that.
I will never take another antidepressant. |
| positivevibes |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 16:26:40
First of all, I don't think you need to see a psychiatrist to get a prescription for Xanax. A regular doctor that you have a good rapport with may give it to you. My endocrinologist gave me a prescription for Atavan when I told her I need it occassionally to help me sleep (which is true). I rarely take it, but I was VERY glad to have it yesterday when I was in a very anxious state due to my back pain.
Secondly, not all psychiatrists are the same. Some are a**holes and some are great. Finding a great one can be trial and error. You have to remember that most psychiatrists are in the habit of pushing SSRIs on patients. That's what they do -- they medicate.
I've been on a few SSRIs here and there, and I know what you mean when you talk about side effects. Not every SSRI is right for every person. When I was dealing with my lingering post-partum depression, I felt great on Zoloft but it made me really fat so I got off it. I felt jumpy and anxious on almost all the others: Prozac, Wellbutrin, etc, and couldn't tolerate them. "Nighttime" SSRIs often make you too drowsy during the day. So THAT is trial and error as well.
If you have found that anti-anxiety meds have helped you in the past, explain that to a regular doctor and see if he'd give you a prescription. You also might want to investigate herbal remedies that have calming effects. Go to a good natural health store in your area and get advice from someone who knows the natural remedies. Or consider seeing a naturopath who can give you more expert guidance in that area.
Don't let your visit to this doctor throw you off too much. Sounds like she's just repeating what she tells everyone.
If you get to the end of your rope, you want might to re-consider and TRY the Cymbalta to see if in fact it helps you. You never know, it might be the right thing after all. You could take it with the attitude that you're "just trying it for a few months" and that you have the option to get off it if you find it doesn't produce the results you need.
**********
You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
| fourtrax |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 16:12:20
So why you need meds?? What could be causing so much stress in ones life? |
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