| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 06/15/2008 : 14:55:12
I have been perusing the forum a lot lately. I just don't have much to say that isn't already said...the veterans get it and the new people's questions are answered.
I do feel a bit of an obligation to the TMS community to report on any experience that might improve the quality of someones life, and seeing as the moment to moment quality of my own has been substantially improved lately, I thought I'd mention it...
You all know that I have always been a proponent of acting out, gestalt and screaming, beating, raging against the world. I remained symptom free, but I also felt trapped a lot of the time...as if I couldn't get too involved in 'positive' energy things too much, lest the symptoms return. I could intellectually digest a lot of beneficial spiritual and psychological practices and idea's, but the fear of a new assault by the daemon kept me from going any deeper than the wading pool.
I have been reading Eckhart Tolle. It has improved my life as much as Sarno and Co.. In fact, I think it has had a greater impact than it might have otherwise, BECAUSE I studied the Ego-Super Ego-Unconscious separations in the TMS work.
Unlike the TMS work however, it is the Ego to be watched. It's amazing, but the Ego absorbs so much stuff from the subconscious that you can learn about both by using the tools he describes. I initially feared that such a focus might bring on a TMS attack, but quite to the contrary, it has made the abortion of one much easier. The greatest joy however has been actually enjoying amazing positive experiences by not seeking them, and having moments of freedom by watching how trapped I am.... a paradox on the scale of our TMS symptoms.
Anyways... I would highly recommend it to any TMSer who has reached the understanding of their plight but feels trapped by their anger reservoirs. I can honestly say that I have had some of the most miraculous moments of my life since becoming immersed in the separation.
-bb65 |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 21:20:57
My therapist recommended Eckhard Tolle to me many times now. I told him I'm not into the stuff that seems like it has a cult folowing, lol. But he assured me that it's not like that and that I would love the philosophy/ truths in it.
One of these days I gotta get the audiobook.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon |
| chester |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 12:31:24
FYI... There's a cool mashup of Tolle reading with ambient/binaural beat background available as free open source audio at http://www.archive.org/details/integral_mashups-RadioKosmos1. Also, iTunes has a bunch of free Tolle podcasts from his work with Oprah.
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| Kristin |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:39:17
You have certainly gained a lot of wisdom in your progression or evolution or whatever one might call it. Sadly, it came at a cost of distress. This thread is very valuable to me right now because I feel a sense of goodism toward the world right now that I can only become frustrated by because A) it's mostly out of my control B) if it's being driven by ego needs that will never be satisfied and C) I'm already overloading myself with stress and tension from things I'm not taking good care of in my everyday life.
I am freaking myself out over a drug reaction and trying against gleaned bits of information I Know, to NOT fall into the fear trap. I have had a physically draining last couple of months with TMS trying all sorts of tricks and ploys. I feel paralyzed and static. I'm thinking this Eckert Toll stuff might be the nudge I need. Thank you for sharing your positive experience.
I hope things continue to go well with your family! |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:09:48
stanfr, I would think it's a progression. Certainly a lot of these posts (including my own) suggest that as we deal with our past, we are able to become more open to the moment.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| moose1 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 17:49:28
Baseball, I'm really sorry to hear about your separation, and all the suffering and miserty that goes along with it. But I'm glad you're getting something out of the Tolle stuff. I think the guy has some incredible insights into what keeps us miserable. There is a WHOLE lot that I'd like to dis-identify with in myself, that's for damn sure.
Moose |
| moose1 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 17:46:41
Baseball, I'm really sorry to hear about your separation, and all the suffering and miserty that goes along with it. But I'm glad you're getting something out of the Tolle stuff. I think the guy has some incredible insights into what keeps us miserable. There is a WHOLE lot that I'd like to dis-identify with in myself, that's for damn sure.
Moose |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 16:36:37
Message Preview
quote:Originally posted by moose1
. I could see how someone might be confused by Sarno and Tolle.
Moose
Yeah... I suppose I posted about it mostly because it was a logical progression. I don't really get TMS symptoms in pain form anymore...most of it is tension and anxiety....not quite as debilitating, but equally annoying
I had a very interesting experience the week before I picked up his book. I was at a Doctors office for some routine crap, and my BP was through the roof again. Funny, cause I just lost twenty pounds and have been working out a bit.
The doctor asked me a few questions and I just broke down crying for quite awhile. He asked about my separation, family and kids and basically called me out for being an 'ego-maniac' (my words, not his)..... even being tossed out of my house, I was hyper-worried about my kids, my wifes and everybody else's well being...the goodist run amuck. I was ashamed about the state I was in and doing everything I possibly could to seem 'OK'.
Goodism is a kind of ego-mania because inside of it is the idea that we can save the world, and a little deeper is the guilt idea that if we weren't so imperfect, the world wouldn't need saving....so the overconcern, overcaring and everything else connected are really self serving.
I think the Tolle stuff really clarified that for me... I wasn't doing it for them...I was doing it for me. My Sons and my wife actually seem to like me a lot better now that I've stopped trying to help them so much. I am actually looking forward to living alone again, and my wife and I are becoming really good friends again.
Oh yeah...my BP came down to normal in about a week after I started reading it.
But.... for someone going through the Sarno work who hasn't had a resolution of their symptoms I guess I'd still recommend a good old fashioned ego-driven private tirade.
-bb65 |
| stanfr |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 15:47:41
If Sarno used more woo-woo terms like "energy" and "frequencies" i suspect he would be making a lot more money from his books. I still see an inconsistency between "thinking psychological(aka PAST)" (Sarno) and "thinking NOW" (Tolle). I don't see how you can reconcile that. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 14:39:04
Kevin's comments reminded me of the experience I had this weekend and the subsequent meeting with my therapist and sharing my feelings and thought about that. I had a great weekend, and I was happy before the weekend and I was happy after, and I was very much in the "now", feeling my feelings. I felt really open to the currents of the universe, and I saw new vistas opening up for me. My experience was very much unexpected, in that I thought the weekend would be great, but I couldn't have imagined how great it would be. The universe doesn't go with our ego feelings of expectation and entitlement. The universe is what it is, it gives what it gives. Experiencing this new connection and joy, I felt present in myself, my thinking mind supporting my experiential self without taking over. I felt that I was able to connect without so much attachment or 'latching on', without requiring labels or assurances, in a way that I couldn't before because I wasn't comfortable enough with myself and the authenticity and validity of my personal experience.
My therapy session put me a little bit more in analytical mode, and afterwards my thoughts started to intrude somewhat. My anxiety level rose and I started having thoughts about things that could go wrong, am I really ready for new connections and new ways of relating, etc. But with this powerful experience of myself, of joyful connection, I have a stronger grounding in what it feels like to be present, and I was able to refocus on my core experiences of the present and recent past, rather than the nervous chattering of the ego, and recapture my feeling of trust in myself even though the territory will be new and unknown and probably (hopefully!) challenging.
I haven't read The Power of Now previously because the idea didn't resonate with me, but maybe I'm ready for it...NOW. :)
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| Rooster |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 13:33:45
quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
so maybe if you're finding the mix confusing, lay Tolle aside for a while till you're settled with the Sarno approach, then pick it up again when you feel ready.
Yep, probably good advice. I'm fascinated by the Tolle stuff but think it will have to wait a bit. I guess the key thing for me now is getting in touch with negative emotions generated in my past/present etc - with good old fashioned journalling! I should walk before I attempt to run  But perhaps the longer term 'goal' is to not generate as many negative emotions/anxieties based on a much better understanding of why they are generated in the first place? (i.e. heightened awareness of ego and the kinds of pressure I, and we all, put ourselves under - and maybe learning to laugh much more at just how seriously we take ourselves!!) |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 10:19:46
quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
The lower 'self' is concerned with 'wants' and 'needs'. It focuses on things like "what will I be when I grow up", "how much money can I make so I can get that nice car", or "what does this person think of me", "my life should be this way for me to be happy", etc.
The wants, desires, feelings of entitlement, regret for things not accomplished. All those things come from the Ego. And those things also in turn breed fear and anxiety, and they are not living in the NOW. They are living life in some fantastical distraction world, contrary to acceptance of what is. If this type of outlook on life goes too far, you become more like stone and not like water(as Bruce Lee said).
This type of life, in a hyper sense, can very well add to TMS type of symptoms.
Western culture is toxic in this way. So many of us don't see it because it's all we know. I guarantee you that a Taoist or Buddhist Monk or true practitioner , is more calm and serene while facing death, than most of us are driving in rush hour traffic.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
I'm guilty of this way of thinking. I concentrate too much on the things I haven't done, and I drift off into Fantasy Land in my head a lot. At first I did it to get away from the pain, but I can now see how it probably made my pain worse. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 08:52:42
The lower 'self' is concerned with 'wants' and 'needs'. It focuses on things like "what will I be when I grow up", "how much money can I make so I can get that nice car", or "what does this person think of me", "my life should be this way for me to be happy", etc.
The wants, desires, feelings of entitlement, regret for things not accomplished. All those things come from the Ego. And those things also in turn breed fear and anxiety, and they are not living in the NOW. They are living life in some fantastical distraction world, contrary to acceptance of what is. If this type of outlook on life goes too far, you become more like stone and not like water(as Bruce Lee said).
This type of life, in a hyper sense, can very well add to TMS type of symptoms.
Western culture is toxic in this way. So many of us don't see it because it's all we know. I guarantee you that a Taoist or Buddhist Monk or true practitioner , is more calm and serene while facing death, than most of us are driving in rush hour traffic.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon |
| moose1 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 07:16:44
Baseball,
I just downloaded Tolle's "A New Earth" from iTunes and find it very interesting so far, especially the idea of not even trying to lose your attachments, because trying doesn't work, but becoming aware of them does start to ease the grip they have on you.
I am currently in the midst of a two-month bout of almost debilitating anxiety. I am in therapy now and know for a fact that a lot of my unconscious anger is about my father. Still, in spite of having acknowledged this to myself and my therapist, the anxiety continues (yesterday was especially bad with Father's Day), and I wonder if Tolle would suggest a different way of dealing with it, such as creating space around it by telling myself that I am not these feelings or these symptoms, I am simply experiencing them.
However, this is easier said than done. I could see how someone might be confused by Sarno and Tolle.
Moose |
| campbell28 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 07:16:40
rooster, I found myself thinking similar things when I read the power of now. I think Tolle's ideas are amazing and they have definitely definitely helped me, but I didn't read the book until quite recently, when I had already sorted a lot of stuff out using Sarno an John Lee.
When I read the book, I did feel glad I was reading it AFTER I had already worked out how to get in touch with my emotions and release them. I felt if I hadn't already got that down, I might have found the 'detatching yourself from your pain' approach turning into 'suppressing emotion by trying too hard not to care'
For me, Tolle defintley worked as a post-Sarno read. Through Sarno I learned how to deny the physical symptoms and start accessing emotions. With John Lee I got better at actually letting the emotions out. Tolle has been really good for detatching my brain from the anxiety hamster-wheel, relaxing and enjoying life again and sort of connecting everything together.
so maybe if you're finding the mix confusing, lay Tolle aside for a while till you're settled with the Sarno approach, then pick it up again when you feel ready. |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 06:54:42
quote:
Originally posted by Rooster
. But now, reading Tolle (which resonates a lot with me) I almost feel that the 'philosophies' of Sarno etc. are incompatible. Whereas Sarno/Brady say you should explore your emotions, consider yourself strong (not weak and breakable) and actively tell your pain to get out of your body, I suspect Tolle would say that you should simply accept how you feel at a given time - and that you don't need to delve into the mind as this is where all of your issues stemmed from originally? This is really tricky as I don't want to be in pain any of the time! I would much rather actively reject pain using a Sarno methodology - and then once I'm better and symptom free work on some of the Tolle ideas to reduce my super-sized ego :-) and reduce the generation of negative emotions.
Does anyone else think these ideas are incompatible? Or does anyone have a different way of interpreting them and see them as working together? At the moment, I'm kind of wishing I hadn't picked up the Tolle book for another six months or so - as it's made me doubt whether Sarno/Brady is 'the answer'!!!
I don't really see them as being in opposition to one another. Tolle isn't telling you to shrink your ego...we couldn't if we tried. If we think we have, we have only adopted a new form of "Now, I am super intuitive, spiritual guy"...another trick of the ego (form)
I think the power in his words is the clear instructions on how to watch the ego. I use it at work and in my band dealings lately. Something happens and I feel the movie starting...the movie in which I am always the victim and hero. Instead of playing though, I start to watch the movie...it doesn't need me to keep on going. Now I am having very different results in the same situations.
If I am watching carefully, the tragedy turns into a comedy. I have a good hearty deep laugh at how serious the victim always takes his plight, how weighty he thought each and every decision he made was, how important he felt his views on politics, religion and current events are or were.
You are the watcher, not the watched.....and the magic comes in that separation.
I had a minor symptom that was certainly TMS since I began to read Tolle and absorb the information. It was a relapse of a temporary condition I get that is clearly psychosomatic and conditioned. Watching the movie didn't keep the symptom away....but it did give me a better seat, a more comfortable chair to laugh at the ego's (me) need for a symptom and how clearly obvious it was that it was TMS.
I think the sum total that it held my attention might have been 10 minutes...and that was with a long study of Sarno and Co. in my head. I immediately refuted it. The watching only made that easier.
The beautiful thing about the truth is that it never contradicts itself. It only gets simpler,easier to understand and more better...there are many observations of it, but they are only different perspectives on the same simplicity.
Sarno is true. It's right on the money. It explains everything in a simple, easy to understand format. In fact, that's why a lot of us rejected it as BS when we first read it.
Perhaps there is a time when you are 'supposed' to read certain things. I know I wasn't 'ready' for Sarno when it first presented itself to me because I hadn't exhausted every possible means of dealing in the world of the structural. However, after recovering from the physical, I was left with a whole pile of tangible, 3D anger that I am now also sick of.....
............................................. |
| Rooster |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 03:40:40
BB65, really interesting post. I've read Sarno and Brady and am starting to use their techniques to try and resolve RSI that I've had for many years (also using it to try and cure more minor things such as hayfever) - but I also picked up The Power of Now and am fascinated by it. I'm about half way through but now find myself very confused!
Prior to reading Tolle, I had become convinced that my RSI is TMS - and that the way to 'cure' myself was the journalling process etc. But now, reading Tolle (which resonates a lot with me) I almost feel that the 'philosophies' of Sarno etc. are incompatible. Whereas Sarno/Brady say you should explore your emotions, consider yourself strong (not weak and breakable) and actively tell your pain to get out of your body, I suspect Tolle would say that you should simply accept how you feel at a given time - and that you don't need to delve into the mind as this is where all of your issues stemmed from originally? This is really tricky as I don't want to be in pain any of the time! I would much rather actively reject pain using a Sarno methodology - and then once I'm better and symptom free work on some of the Tolle ideas to reduce my super-sized ego :-) and reduce the generation of negative emotions.
Does anyone else think these ideas are incompatible? Or does anyone have a different way of interpreting them and see them as working together? At the moment, I'm kind of wishing I hadn't picked up the Tolle book for another six months or so - as it's made me doubt whether Sarno/Brady is 'the answer'!!! |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 01:31:16
btw, nice job at starting to pass to a higher state of consciousness. seeya when i get there too.
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i'm not s#!t.
i'm champagne. |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 06/16/2008 : 00:30:25
so is this kind of like an eastern thing? because buddhism and daoism have seriously saved my ass from a horrible life along with the work of sarno and primal therapy.
---
i'm not s#!t.
i'm champagne. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 06/15/2008 : 17:42:31
A lot of people seem to have success with Eckhart Tolle. My therapist Arnold talks about him all the time and advised me to read his stuff. I haven't gotten around to it yet.
Arnold reminded me of the Ego and the Super. I knew it from my Eastern Philosophy studies years ago, but only now took it seriously, and it changes me everyday. Even now I am reminding myself to lose my Ego.
I get better at it every day.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon |
| pan |
Posted - 06/15/2008 : 16:31:47
The pain that you create now is always some form of nonacceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to what is. On the level of thought, the resistance is some form of judgment. On the emotional level, it is some form of negativity. The intensity of the pain depends on the degree of resistance to the present moment, and this in turn depends on how strongly you are identified with your mind.
Yep, I'll buy that. |
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