| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| stefan |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 00:51:17
I've been reading a lot of threads about therapies that claim to get in touch with your anger/rage and let it all out. I am not knocking anyone, just puzzled. I am rather new to this forum so please help me understand.
There are a lot of studies published in recent years that prove beyond doubt that displays of anger are really bad for your health. Here's a quote from The New York Times (1993 I think):
In its “Health” section, The New York Times noted:
“People who often explode in hostile rages or who sit around fuming over every perceived slight may be doing more than making themselves unpleasant. They may be killing themselves.
“Researchers have gathered a wealth of data lately suggesting that chronic anger is so damaging to the body that it ranks with, or even exceeds, cigarette smoking, obesity and a high-fat diet as a powerful risk factor for early death.
“‘Our studies indicate that hostile, suspicious anger is right up there with any other health hazard we know about,’ said Dr. Redford Williams, a researcher in behavioral medicine at the Duke University Medical Center.”
Studies indicate that those overreacting to common bumps on the road of life produce more stress hormones. Their frequent outbursts can cause an imbalance between the protective and the harmful forms of cholesterol, putting them at risk of cardiovascular disease.
The Times noted: “Many researchers said anger-prone people could reduce the risk of early mortality by changing knee-jerk, hostile responses.”
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
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| mcone |
Posted - 06/12/2008 : 17:31:59
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Often, going through the "I want to" for long enough will eventually get you to the "should" you created in the first place.
Again, I agree.
The "cognitive restructuring" of the negative emotion has a chance to take only if the emotion is first, fully recognized and acknowledged (and possibly vented or expressed somehow). Maybe the emotion even has to be churned through several times - either before or together with the cognitive thinking - in an iterative fashion - before cognitive restructuring can be effective.
The concepts aren't especially difficult to grasp, but applying them in real time - to the constant rushing stream of life experience, thoughts and feelings isn't easy.
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/12/2008 : 13:56:25
quote:
I think this really underscores a fundamental problem with CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) for some people: The premise is that by deploying these cognitive responses, one diffuses and neutralizes the negative emotion. I think in reality, what happens for some is that knowing what the cognitive response is (i.e., what you should think) merely forces the supression of the emotion.
I'm pretty sure this is exactly why Sarno doesn't recommend CBT for TMS. We are usually already too experienced at "thinking away our emotions". CBT is good for people who are at the opposite end. Not that CBT can never be helpful -- this isn't its only purpose or the only CBT-type approach -- but it often can become this.
I adopted the approach that whenever I find myself saying "I should", what I need to uncover is the inner "I want to". And then I get to decide how to handle it.
Often, going through the "I want to" for long enough will eventually get you to the "should" you created in the first place. If it doesn't, maybe you shouldn't!
Should call your mother? Don't call her for long enough, and you may want to. Shouldn't be angry at that colleague? Get angry for a while, let the anger happen an pass-through, and you may be pleasantly surprised at the emotions that are left.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| mcone |
Posted - 06/12/2008 : 00:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Releasing anger in a healthy way, so that it passes through you and is gone, is a whole different thing than sitting around fuming, or exploding in rage unpredictably at minor things.
I agree. Whatever is driving the inner angst - it is indeed healthiest to vent in some contructive way (or at least a benign, non-destructive way). My pet theory is that internal angst can follow several paths: If it's cognitively processed to be a result of one's own actions or failings, it's depression (or shame, etc.); If it's processed as another's it's anger; If it's somehow repressed, it become anxiety or TMS pain (more the profile of TMS'ers).
An intuition I had recently was to deliberately seperate the acknowledgement and experience of emotions, on the one hand, from the cognitive processing of emotions (especially anger), on the other: ***How I feel is one thing - What I think, or how I should think, is another entirely.***
This was a huge stumbling block which seriously prevented me from experiencing emotions. Because I always knew *what I should think* about something, I could never allow myself to *feel* the raw, unfiltered anger associated with an experience or set of circumstances. (i.e., someone in the work place really perpetuated an injustice that caused me grief - but I knew that I *should* feel compassion for thier inability to control thier character deficits, I *should* put it into perspective and count my blessings, etc.)
I think this really underscores a fundamental problem with CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) for some people: The premise is that by deploying these cognitive responses, one diffuses and neutralizes the negative emotion. I think in reality, what happens for some is that knowing what the cognitive response is (i.e., what you should think) merely forces the supression of the emotion.
Why does this happen? I think it happens because a big component of the angst (whether anger, depression, or anxiety, etc.) is neurological / chemical - So one can tell themselves why they should feel differently - and know intellectually that this is right - but the brain chemistry doesn't respond completely - so the angst is still there - and the result (if the emotion isn't experienced or expressed somehow) is supression.
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| stefan |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 23:54:30
Scott, Wavy and the Linguist, thank you for the very insightful replies. Some things are felt but are difficult to express, only when prompted by questions are they brought to the top.
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
| scottjmurray |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 13:43:15
quote:
“People who often explode in hostile rages or who sit around fuming over every perceived slight may be doing more than making themselves unpleasant. They may be killing themselves.
these people don't know what they are actually angry at, and they're taking out a bunch of misplaced aggression. if they could target their anger at the thought pattern or ghost from their past that was actually causing it, they would be freed from that pattern and thus would go on to be healthier.
quote:
“Researchers have gathered a wealth of data lately suggesting that chronic anger is so damaging to the body that it ranks with, or even exceeds, cigarette smoking, obesity and a high-fat diet as a powerful risk factor for early death.
same thing. this anger is jammed inside them and hasn't been directed at the actual source. yes, it will slowly kill them because their brain is in a state of dysfunction. the actual cause of their anger is trapped in the subconscious mind. an actual release of anger at the appropriate target (i don't mean punching someone by the way, i mean actually experiencing the anger itself which can be done by yourself) is one of the healthiest experiences you can have.
quote:
“‘Our studies indicate that hostile, suspicious anger is right up there with any other health hazard we know about,’ said Dr. Redford Williams, a researcher in behavioral medicine at the Duke University Medical Center.”
same thing as i said above.
quote:
Studies indicate that those overreacting to common bumps on the road of life produce more stress hormones. Their frequent outbursts can cause an imbalance between the protective and the harmful forms of cholesterol, putting them at risk of cardiovascular disease.
another example of displaced anger.
quote:
The Times noted: “Many researchers said anger-prone people could reduce the risk of early mortality by changing knee-jerk, hostile responses.”
these supposedly anger-prone people were emotionally mistreated or abused as children and they need help getting these feelings out into the open.
all of these things are just examples of how little our society and our researchers know about emotional well-being. anger is the most misunderstood emotion we have here in the civilized world, and we're all paying for it.
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i'm not s#!t.
i'm champagne. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 23:49:15
quote:
Releasing anger in a healthy way, so that it passes through you and is gone, is a whole different thing than sitting around fuming, or exploding in rage unpredictably at minor things.
As usual, you have nailed it, Armchair!
There is a HUGE difference between
1) the conscious release or even just "full allowing" of rage in a safe container created with the intention of allowing the trapped energy to move, but NOT believing the beliefs which are somehow mixed in with it...
and
2) dumping or even just "running" anger when you believe everything you think.
By "safe container," I mean a space, perhaps with a therapist or very conscious friend, who will be with you while you release, and hold the reality that what you are doing is not aimed at anyone, but for the purpose of healing and release. Sometimes you can hold a safe space for yourself.
In my work, I have been holding such spaces for people for nearly 30 years. I am very careful to differentiate between feelings and thoughts. This one, seemingly subtle, point is the difference between conscious and unconscious anger. Getting them mixed up causes endless problems. Feelings are best felt in the body. Thoughts/beliefs need to be observed in the mind, and, if they are destructive, challenged and changed. You can do both at the same time, amazingly.
I just deleted a huge instructional paragraph... I'm here for me!
The NY Times article is talking about unconscious anger. When it arises, the person really believes what they are thinking, that seems to go along with the energy. So the energy never releases, it just gets confirmed, and goes in an endless loop which, like the wrong kind of feedback, makes a horrible vibe in the body that leads to illness. For example, a person gets angry at his kids, explodes at them, while thinking, "They are bad," and never changes the belief. So the anger becomes toxic.
blah blah
love to allxxx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| stefan |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 16:27:36
I am still trying to understand this.
What I've read in Dr. Sarno's books is that being aware of the mind's tricks we can turn them off, usually (some need to go for psycho-therapy to delve deeper). Most though are fortunate enough to be aware only.
Those of the rest of the 10-15% like me, through strenuous guesswork need to figure out what's bugging me in the deepest basement of my heart AND probably for most of us, learn new ways of coping with perceived (or real) onslaughts on the inner psyche.
Is there a connection then, of the conscious reaction to the pressures, whether from the outside world or self-imposed ones, to how the psyche reacts to the rising rage??? (e.g. "I can now feel sh**ty without feeling like sh*t.")
Are we connected to such an extent that what we feel consciously affects the unconscious, but how we react unconsciously is from an undisclosed emotional feeling in the unconscious, only to be discovered for some through psycho-therapy?
Please don't get me wrong, I know Dr. Sarno is right. I am not disputing that, just trying to get accurate understanding.
Thanks for your replies.
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 12:32:06
quote:
There are a lot of studies published in recent years that prove beyond doubt that displays of anger are really bad for your health.
This is completely untrue. These studies have shown that people who tend to explode in anger tend to be in poor health. There is no causal relationship shown (the press tends to manufacture causal relationships that are simply not shown by the correlational studies that produce them).
Repressed or suppressed anger can be released in unrelated situations, which may be what is occurring here. If these people are chronically angry inside, it will pop out at unexpected times, and they may have health problems -- such as TMS or heart problems. The Mindbody Prescription has some material about non-TMS problems that may have relationships to the emotions.
The people mentioned in these studies also often have hostile attitudes to the world, thinking that the world is out to get them. This is neither here nor there regarding Sarno and repressed anger, except that sometimes repressed anger can result in this attitude. I have not seen this attitude in most people on this board; it doesn't seem to be common among people with TMS. On the contrary we tend to be the opposite from what I can tell.
Releasing anger in a healthy way, so that it passes through you and is gone, is a whole different thing than sitting around fuming, or exploding in rage unpredictably at minor things.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| stefan |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 08:02:33
I didn't think Sarno was talking about releasing anger, just acknowledging it was there.
Ars Longa Vita Brevis |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 07:52:31
I'm new at this, too, but I don't equate Dr. Sarno's theory of releasing rage with violent outbursts. Releasing rage doesn't mean you yell and scream and break things. It's more about recognizing those negative emotions than about losing your sh*t. |
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