| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| deer |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 20:04:23
I just listened to Dr. Shechter's interview with the psychotherapist ,Dr. Donald Dubin. I don't understand why Dr. Dubin says that all you need is short term therapy (on average 7 sessions).Many times he implies that there really isn't a need to to go into great depth uncovering emotions. From Sarno's book I got the impression that there is a need for psychoanalytic therapy , which is usually long term. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 09:25:49
Psychoanalysts recommended by Dr. Sarno work closely with him. They have been trained to attain specific goals related to TMS recovery. There is no guarantee that a different therapist will work. At a minimum you need a Freudian-based psychologist who understands and believes in the TMS theory.
I have to agree with Tom -- you cannot consider yourself a patient of Dr. Sarno if you do not follow through all of the necessary steps, including psychotherapy with one of his own colleagues. If your parents truly understood and empathized with your 'condition' they would have let you complete the program. Perhaps they genuinely felt they were helping you, but they were doing so with their eyes closed.
Furthermore, if Dr. Sarno referred you to a psychologist on your first appointment, then he must have seen significant emotional problems that needed immediate attention. Typically Dr. Sarno does not refer patients to a psychotherapist unless the basic program (book + lecture + group meetings) fails to yield results after several months. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 21:20:37
Dear Deer,
Sorry, but, I must say I am more confused now than before. If Sarno reccommended a psychotherapist in NYC, why would your parents make you leave NYC because they thought it was the best for your condition. Obviously your condition is not improving. With Sarno you had some hope that it could. I assume your parents were not on board with Sarno and must have thought he was a quack, otherwise they would have let you stick with the TMS "cure". Maybe the core psychological problem is your relationship with your parents? What do you think?
There is no info in your bio to go on. This board attempts to transcend the physical and to delve into the emotional which is the root of TMS psychogenic pain. I assume you have TMS since the Good Doctor directed you to a psychotherapist. It's a shame your parents are not on board and yanked you away from one of the few people on the planet who could have helped you. Maybe you should talk to your parents and educate them on TMS so you can return to Sarno. If that's impossible than the only solution I can reccommend is to do phone sessions with a TMS psychotherapist. Since you were concerned about how long it takes, as I posted you before, Donald Dubin said, the most sessions he had to do was 15 for a stubborn case.
How old are you? Male/female? student? occupation? in a relationship? Can you describe the relaltionship between you and your parents? We don't have much info to go on if you are looking for help?
Good luck |
| deer |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 20:32:24
Tennis Tom and Hilary,my original post on this thread is actually from two months ago.The original post had two parts to it.In one part I was asking people advice on finding a psychotherapist,and in the other I was asking how long the process takes.Just recently I edited the original post,by taking out the part about finding a therapist because it is no longer an issue.I think that by doing this I probably mixed you up ,because some of the replies to the original post were adressing my question regarding finding a therapist.Sorry for the mix up.Regarding your other question about why I don't call Sarno;The truth is that around four months ago some of my friends told me about Dr. Sarno's work . I read his book but I was still not doing better, so I called him to make an appointment .So I went to see Dr. Sarno around two months ago.When I was finished with the appointment Dr. Sarno told me that I need to begin working with a psychotherapist.He reffered me to a psychotherapist not far from where I was living.However, shortly thereafter my parents decided that it would be best for me to move to my hometown(out of the NY area) because of my condition.Therefore, I was unable to see that therapist. P.S. In case you were wondering I was going to school in NY but I grew up out of the NY area. |
| Hilary |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 04:04:04
Deer,
I was also going to ask you about the two therapists you were seeing. I see that Tennis Tom beat me to it. I too am a little unclear about what's going on with you, and why you're now looking for yet another therapist? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 20:50:43
Dear Deer,
What happened to the two therapists you were seeing before in your posts quoted below?
Posted - 01/13/2005 : 22:13:44
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Michele , I am having a similar dilema . I tryed out two different therapist and I liked them both. They each have different ways of exploring me.One lets me talk a lot about my history and feelings while the other examines every little thing that I am presently doing (and saying) and then ties it in with my past and present feelings. He says that all little details point to the same thing .His approach is much more intense . Although it isn't that comfortable for me to be scrutinized on every single thing I say to him nevertheless,I think that it's great. However,I am not sure if it such a good idea for me to be working with two therapists at once.I am afraid that my thoughts might just get a bit confused.However,This doen't seem to be a problem with me so far.If anybody has also had any experience with working with two therapists at one time please leave some input.Thanks
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Edited by - deer on 01/15/2005 18:12:18
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 17:01:22
Dear Deer,
Something just isn't computing here. Are you sure you saw Dr. Sarno and not someone with a similar name? Did you attend the lectures? For the very few that need psychotherapy, I thought Sarno referred them to therapists he works with and are TMS savy. Why are you searching for a psychotherapist when Sarno could refer you? From the posts of others who have seen the Good Doctor, it seems that he is very generous with his time and advice and when there are flare-ups he helps out and sometimes doesn't even charge. Why don't you call him about that pain in your head and see what he says. Where do you live? It would help if you would fill out your bio with more info. I don't feel I have a handle on you as a person. More info please.
Good luck |
| deer |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:32:18
I saw Dr. Sarno a few months ago. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 09:46:58
Dear Deer,
You may be putting the horse before the cart. Have you seen a TMS doctor? Most of us were "given" our TMS hot-spots by doctors. My TMS/"arthritic" right hip was bestowed on me by a doctor one fatefull day. I listened to the message on my answering machine, "The x-rays show you have 'significant' arthritis." It has stuck in my brain ever since. Prior to that I had all kinds of "cool" things that shifted around with each new body-person I searched out. Things like "iliotribial-band syndrome", "piriformis", "S-I Joint", "pinched nerve L-4/L-5", and many more I no longer remember. Arhritis does not play well in CA, a state where it is against the law to grow up.
I've successfully repudiated 99% of the physical diagnosis on my own by reading Sarno. I function 100% for all daily activities like walking, sitting, driving, sleeping, and the toughest of all, communicating with CA zombies.
Deer, have you seen a TMS doctor? The home page has links to them and also the Tarpit Yoga site has a list with a few that aren't listed here.
Good Luck,
tt |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 09:17:17
Dear Deer,
The TMS gremliln at work! My recollection of Sarno is that he says that MOST people can be "cured" of TMS WITHOUT psychotherapy. All that is necessary to do is to accept TMS theory--to repudiate the pain, and accept that it is psychogenic in origin. The group lectures are enough for the vast majority of TMS sufferers and only a few stubbprn cases will require psychotherapy. Donald Dubin says on the tape that the most sessions he had to do was 15.
With that said, I am off to LA-LA land next week to see Dr. Schechter and Donald Dubin--my yoga teacher once said to me, "Tom, you are a stubborn man."
For years I glossed over the small section in Sarno that applied to me, Osteoarthritis and Hips. I attribute this to the TMS gremlin. Since Sarno seems to devote more pages to back problems, all the other TMS areas appear to get short schrifted. If he wrote a whole book to each of our personal TMS physical hot spot like "TMS and Chronic Nose Hair Infections", we would probalbly dismiss him all together. |
| polly |
Posted - 12/22/2004 : 11:26:51
Deer,
I think it's those time limits that we put on things that make the TMS worse. That perfectionism rearing it's head. You want to find the perfect therapy and know the amount of time. How can you know that without getting started?
Maybe you'll need 2 sessions. Maybe 200. If it helps, what's the difference?
I do this all the time. I'm saying this to you and reitterating it to myslef. I think that everyone here is very brave for doing something that most of the medical community would give a big "Huh?" to.
Polly |
| JohnD |
Posted - 12/21/2004 : 21:44:35
its a very individual process...it depends on your own personal history and it takes as long as it takes......about dr dubin, its only one man's opinion, u don't need to swallow it |
| deer |
Posted - 12/21/2004 : 21:06:06
Polly, I agree that people do benefit greatly from many years of therapy .However,I would like to know how long therapy is needed for TMS recovery.I am a bit frustated because the psychoanalysts say that analaysis takes a few years.Frankly,I don't like the idea that I won't recover from TMS until that long. |
| polly |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 10:19:30
I always tell this when someone asks about the length of therapy.
In my early 20's I hit upon big time success in the NY's garment center. I was a star. One day, I just started crying and couldn't stop. I started seeing a therapist. It helped a lot. Shortly after, I found out my Mom was dying and I'd also met my husband. I stayed in therapy for 9 yrs.
One day I saw an article in NY magazine that said therapy should last about 2 yrs. I asked the therapist about this. She says "you haven't gone the right 2yrs. yet".
Polly |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 05:48:23
Hi Deer
I lived in LA when I decided to get psychiatric help.The Psych who I worked with was unfamiliar with Sarno,but was useful and helpful none the less.
Unlike Medical Dr.s ,Psych's tend to be more open minded,and if YOU explain what your problem is and why you are seeing them,they will most certainly be useful,and you might teach them a thing or two.
My shrink was excited about Sarno's work when I told him about it,and was always impressed with my motivation to get well.....they get a lot of patients who have no motivating factors...he said I started where it took most of his patients to get to in years!!
a good intro duction would be something like:
"Hi...I'm ( blank )..I suffer from a psychosomatic condition called TMS and I needhelp to search out the things in my life that are causing suppressed rage,anger and anxiety."
remember ,,,,they are on OUR side..they all believe that psychosomatic conditions are the cause of physical problems...they see all kinds of patients.My own shrink said he had always vaguely guessed there was something like that going on,but he had no medical model or proof and didn't want to scare away patients...
look for a TMS shrink,but if you don't find one,just be candid with a regular therapist and you should be AOK on your way!!
Baseball65 |
| JoeC |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 02:01:32
Deer:
Perhaps you should go ahead and call some therapists in your area and ask them if they are familiar with Sarno and TMS. That's what I would do, as a first step.
If that fails, you could always find a therapist you like and give him Sarno's book, or at least describe TMS to him/her (perhaps there is an article on the internet that sums it up in a reasonably succinct manner) and tell him the author of the theory, who works at NYU in New York, etc., instructed you to see someone to help you along with your recovery.
I think identifing your repressed anger, uncovering fears your conscious mind doesn't want to admit, etc. - activities that would help with TMS - are things that most psycotherapists do anyway. If the therapist is somehow anti-Fruedian (not big on repression, unconsious, etc.), then they probably won't be a great selection.
Otherwise, they probably will be helpful, and with a little education on Sarno, probably very helpful. Plus keep reading this board.
I personally would rather do that than see someone over the phone, but that is a personal preference.
Joe
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