| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 15:30:11
This is extremely long. If you're like me and have a short attention span, please skip to the questions below. I could really use some advice from other TMS sufferers.
I am a 36-year-old married female. I’ve had chronic low back pain for 7 years. The pain started in my lower back and glutes. It then moved into my middle back and around my sides at my waist. My right side tends to be more painful than my left side, but the pain moves, gets worse, subsides, and the sensations change. This year has been by far the worst in terms of my pain levels. I am about halfway through “Healing Back Pain”.
To give you a very condensed history of my back pain, I began seeing a chiropractor 7 years ago. I started having pain while working and going to school. At first I thought it was because I was sitting down too much or had bad posture. For the first few years my pain was constant, but not too severe. I usually went to the chiro once or twice a month. I was told my pain was due to my spine being out of alignment. Two and a half years ago I saw my first Ortho who sent me to physical therapy without giving me a diagnosis. Neither the ortho nor the physical therapist took me very seriously. The PT actually told me that I wasn’t in pain. I gave up on PT because it wasn’t working and the therapist obviously didn’t give two squirts about helping me. I continued to see the chiropractor.
This year the pain has been very bad. A local pharmacist referred me to another PT/ortho/chiro office. I had been going to this office for a week when I asked the chiro what my diagnosis was. He said, “Your diagnosis is low back pain.” I said, “That’s a symptom. Not a diagnosis. I’ve been in pain for 7 years and I don’t have the slightest idea why.” He said, “We’re going to work with you so you can manage the pain on your own.” I said, “I don’t want to manage it. I want to know what’s causing it and I want to be cured. How can you possibly come up with a treatment plan for me when you have no diagnosis?” I was then sent for an MRI and put on prescription anti-inflammatories and Ultram. The anti-inflammatory drugs did absolutely nothing for the pain. The Ultram helped somewhat, but it didn’t completely alleviate the pain and it made me loopy so I stopped taking them. The MRI revealed several bulging dics. None were herniated, I had no fractures, bone spurs or tumors, and my tendons and ligaments were intact. The MRI report used the words “tiny” and “minimal” describing my disc bulges--most of them are in the lumbar region. The chiro looked me in the face and said, “I’ve seen worse MRI’s than this in people who have no pain at all. I think there’s something else going on with you.” The ortho also told me my MRI wasn’t that bad. I told her I though it could be tension or stress related. She said that tension and stress won't help my back pain then offered me epidural shots, essentially dismissing my anxiety theory. I didn’t want shots and I thought the physical therapy staff of this office sucked big time, so my attitude just got worse and worse while I dealt with this office. I complained about the awful physical therapy assistants and how they weren’t thorough enough. No one explained anything to me. I was constantly asking questions and getting short answers. I frequently walked out of the office feeling worse than when I walked in.
The day I got my MRI results, I went home and balled my eyes out to my husband. For the next two days I felt a little better. (Possibly because I had released some tension and talked about my crippling fear of this pain?) The third day I had another appointment for PT and the pain flared up again as I anticipated going to this office that I just didn’t like. I had been doing Pilates with a personal trainer twice a week for 8 weeks and lifting weights one more day during the week. I just didn’t believe that squeezing a ball between my knees for five minutes in front of a PTA who never even told me how to do the exercise properly was ever going to do more for my pain than a full hour of exercise 3x a week with a trainer who watched me like a hawk and constantly corrected my posture. The more I thought about it, the more I thought physical therapy was useless for me.
The day after that last PT appointment I found myself at work crying at my desk. I was in so much pain and I couldn’t function. I had an old prescription for Xanax in my purse. It was from October of 2007 which shows how often I took the pills. I figured if I couldn't get rid of the pain, I could at least be together enough to deal with the pain and keep working. The Xanax got rid of 80% of my back pain. That was my first clue-in that this could at least partly be tension/stress/anxiety related. Prescription painkillers and anti-inflammatories did less for my back pain than one .25mg Xanax.
I started digging back to when I first began to have this pain. My first chiropractor appointment was July 2001. This was the same month I experienced a major trauma that left me severely depressed for several months.
I’ve also had IBS for 16 years. Right now my stomach feels great. One day two weeks ago I had a mild IBS diarrhea attack. Right after the attack, the entire right side of my back got hot.
Putting all of these things together, I have many questions on whether or not this could be TMS. (Some of this is just me talking out loud trying to rationalize it all to myself.)
--Dr. Sarno’s book mentions IBS in connection with TMS. For those of you who have other anxiety-related issues like IBS or ulcers or headaches, do you find a connection between your TMS pain and those other symptoms? Do they fluctuate or flare up at the same time? In other words, since my stomach problems have been very good in recent years, could my IBS be moving to my back?
--My pain does not feel like typical muscle pain. One night in Pilates class, I moved funny and pulled a muscle in my shoulder. It was a typical pulled muscle pain and it went away in two days. I realized at that moment that my back pain felt nothing like that. It’s definitely muscular, but sometimes I feel like I’m being pinched or stabbed. Right now it feels like my sides are being pinched. Sometimes it’s a tingly feeling, but I wouldn’t describe it as numbness and my MRI results show that my bulging discs are not hitting nerves. My pain also does not shoot down my leg or go into my foot. My back and glutes are tender to the touch. I knew I had to do something when I told my husband he couldn’t hug me anymore because it hurt too bad. So if my muscles are working overtime to keep my spine stabilized OR if my back muscles are doing the work of my “weak” core muscles—which is what my second chiro told me was happening—wouldn’t it feel like typical overworked muscle? Spin-off of that, if my pain is because my spine is out of alignment, shouldn’t I walk out of my chiropractor’s office feeling completely pain-free? Because I definitely do not walk out of his office feeling pain-free, the TNS and ultrasound he performs on me does nothing, and massage therapy makes the pain even worse. Also, I crack my knuckles or my ankles. I may feel stiff, but I don’t feel pain. Why would my back needing to be cracked cause such severe pain when no other part of my body feels like that and still could use a good cracking? What does your TMS pain feel like? Does it feel like the same type of pulled muscle from sleeping funny or working out too hard or is it something else?
--I exercise regularly, I am not overweight, I eat relatively well, and I am extremely flexible. This couldn’t be a lifestyle issue. I am more sedentary than I want to be thanks to my desk job, but my husband has a desk job, too, and he doesn’t exercise as much as I do. Why can my husband be more sedentary than I am and not have this problem?
--One of my doctors is pushing me to take Cymbalta. I absolutely do not want to take this medication or any other anti-depressants, but I will consider it if it would get rid of the pain. What have your experiences been taking anti-dep medications for back pain?
--Since the onset of this back pain came during a very volatile time in my life, am I holding onto those old issues from 7 years ago, or did I just train my body to keep dealing with everyday emotions in this way? I feel that I fit Dr. Sarno’s profile of the overly-responsible type. Since I have this personality type, is it more difficult to treat because I’m not necessarily dealing with fear, anger, or anxiety of specific moments or events but I’m dealing with a generalized anxiety? In 7 years I haven't felt normal. Even on good days, the pain doesn't fully go away.
--Has anyone used either the McKenzie Method for treating back pain or looked into gluten or casein allergies? I have read that casein can produce severe muscle pain. Severe allergies run in my family, though I don’t know that I have a family history of allergies producing pain.
--For ladies with back pain, I’ve read that hormones can also cause back pain. I’m currently on birth control pills. Should I consider going off of them?
--I’m currently seeing a LCSW. I have mostly been addressing issues involving my childhood. I had a one very abusive parent and one very neglectful parent. Why wouldn’t this work as psychotherapy to heal the pain? Or do I have to really be aware of TMS pain before psychotherapy will be of value? I’ve really only made this connection in the past two weeks, so I have not had the chance to explore this connection with my LCSW.
--Has anyone tried EMDR or neurofeedback? My LCSW recommended both to me.
--The pain can be so severe that I start to panic. How can I get myself out of panic mode which I’m sure inevitably makes the pain far worse than it needs to be? I try to be optimistic, but since this is the worst pain I’ve ever been in during my life and I’ve had it for so long, I struggle with the fact that it could all go away so easily. I want it to go away that easy, I just don’t know if it’s possible.
--How can I find a TMS doctor in the Chicago area, particularly the western or northwestern suburbs? Should I be looking for a M.D., psychiatrist, psychotherapist, etc??
Thank you for reading my novel and for any responses you may have for me. I am very anxious to get rid of this pain for good. Because of my personality type, I really feel the need to rule out everything else before I can 100% commit to the idea that I only have TMS. I have a huge stack of back pain books from the library sitting on my coffee table right now, and my head is spinning a million miles a minute and I’m trying to make some sense of it all.
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| penguins |
Posted - 06/09/2008 : 19:31:33
Hi hottm8oh,
I just wanted to let you know that I am a 36 year old married female. I was diagnosed with a bulging disc in my neck and degenerative disc disease last year. Like Peg, who had the same type of issue, the pain started while my husband was deployed and my then 2 year old was driving me mad. I tried everything to help it except surgery and epidural shots in the neck -- all, of course, to no avail. Then this past March I found Dr. Sarno's book at a store called Healthy Back. I was there to buy an inversion table to hopefully give me relief. I ordered the table and left with a copy of Healing Back Pain. Within 2 weeks I cancelled the order for the table and was 80 - 90% better. The pain lingered until just last week when I think I finally licked it. I will get the occasional twinge now and then, and it's always when I'm feeling stressed or thinking about something stressful, but it goes right away. I'm back to doing everything with my upper body that I couldn't do for a full year: lifting weights, doing pushups, brushing my hair with no pain, carrying groceries, and the most wonderful thing of all, being able to pick up my son again. The day I lifted him up and held him for the first time in almost a year was like a miracle. The smile on his face was truly a moment I'll never forget. It makes me cry just to think about it.
Anyway, I wanted to give you hope. Just keep reading as everyone has said. I still have lots of work to do unfortunately. I have plantar fasciitis that's the demon. I posted something earlier today about a new symptom in my toe that so conveiently started when I could say I no longer felt the neck pain. I'll get there and so will you. Good luck and please keep us posted!!!
--Jennifer :) |
| JohnD |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 15:16:30
La Kevin,
You're a straight shooter and I really like that when I see it |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 23:47:06
quote:
Originally posted by mk6283
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
I’ve had chronic low back pain for 7 years.
You have TMS. Get to work and forget the rest of the stuff. Lay off the drugs, the methods, EMDR, etc., etc. TMS is your only way out at this point. Good luck!
Best,
MK
Can we lay off of the armchair diagnoses please? She very much sounds like TMS, but I don't think it is up to us to tell her that.
--------------------------
"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
| Peg |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 18:34:16
You wrote:
Thank you all so much for your encouraging responses. You've given me a lot to think about, especially about journaling. I used to be a pretty skilled writer, but I stopped around the time the pain started because I was a student and only had the time to write boring academic papers. I think journaling could definitely help me and get me back to doing something my professors told me I had a natural talent for. When a college level teacher with a Ph.D. tells you that you should be published, that's pretty encouraging.
That's wonderful, that your talent was recognized, but this paragraph concerns me a little. Sounds like that perfectionism again (don't worry, I only know because I've been there). The journaling that I've done is almost like scribbling. I let my feelings come out unchecked, raw, uncensored. That means no punctuation, no thought about how it sounds or how it looks. This is not for publication. This is for your health and peace of mind. If it is done right, it will not always be pretty, but it is important that you are honest about your deepest pain. Things like your rage, gut wrenching sadness, fear of abandonment, fear of death....you get the picture.
You can always write at another time for review. But this early time should be for the sole purpose of helping you to feel better.
I can remember times when my back hurt, but after 15-20 minutes of honest journalling, the pain would be TOTALLY GONE! Sarno Rocks!
By the way, it's been eight years since I first read Dr. Sarno's work and I'm still doing well.
Best,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 15:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
Putting all of these things together, I have many questions on whether or not this could be TMS.
Everything in your message is consistent with TMS. It sounds like you've been to enough doctors to rule out any serious disease or illness. You have a lot of conditioning to undo, but the first step is to read (and re-read, and re-read) the book(s) and acquire the knowledge. |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 08:58:12
One last thing to postiivevibes--I did have my thyroid checked earlier this year, though I do not have a copy of the results. I was told everything was "normal". (I LOVE how doctors always say that but don't tell you what "normal" really means.) I plan to put a call into my doctor to get a copy of my bloodwork. Thank you for the recommendation. |
| hottm8oh |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 08:54:03
Thank you all so much for your encouraging responses. You've given me a lot to think about, especially about journaling. I used to be a pretty skilled writer, but I stopped around the time the pain started because I was a student and only had the time to write boring academic papers. I think journaling could definitely help me and get me back to doing something my professors told me I had a natural talent for. When a college level teacher with a Ph.D. tells you that you should be published, that's pretty encouraging.
positivevibes--I'm lucky in that activity was something that I usually wasn't too afraid of. I was most afraid of high impact activity, so I refused to do anything like running or jumping. Sometimes I would ask the husband to lift heavy things for me, which I hated because I have always been fiercely independent and lifting heavy things was never something I was afraid of before. Activity usually made me feel better. My pain would flare up when I was sitting. So my rationalization for Pilates was that it would help my back pain by stabilizing my core and it would get me up off the evil couch that made my back hurt. The first month was hard. I was in pain, but I just kept going to classes figuring it would pay off in the long run. I worked with a trainer who made sure that I was doing everything properly, and I just went very slowly. One of the most mentally beneficial things for me about doing Pilates is that it proved to me that physical therapy was pointless in my case. One full hour of properly instructed Pilates 3x a week vs. 10 minutes of poorly instructed physical therapy? It didn't add up to me.
Since I had this revelation two weeks ago that my pain was most likely TMS, my pain levels during Pilates have been significantly lower. I have mild twangs here and there during the workouts, but in the past two weeks I haven't done any exercises that have hurt enough for me to stop. My attitude about Pilates and exercise has changed now. I started doing it to help my back, but I've seen some other amazing results. I've lost some weight, my midsection is a lot less flabby, I'm sleeping better, and I just feel better overall. I have fewer days where I just feel *icky* or worn out. I also made some diet changes that are partly responsible for these positive results. So now I go work out with the intention of being healthy, being strong, having a toned body--which, incidentally, my husband LOVES. I have a dozen good reasons to exercise, but now those reasons DON'T include healing my back pain.
I finished Healing Back Pain last night. I had so many *a-ha* moments reading that book. I'm going to read Mind-Body book next and start journaling, and I'm going to tell my brain that I know what it's doing. I also have a plan with my LCSW to work on the events from 7 years ago that I believe started this pain. I know I have repressed emotions from that time in my life, and I need to go digging for them.
As you can see, I'm the type of personality that likes to have a plan. I suppose that means I fit the TMS profile.  |
| Peg |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 06:01:58
Everything you have written fits with TMS. As a matter of fact, your story sounds like mine in many ways. My pain was upper back and neck but the MRI findings were bulging discs and degenerative disc disease (which I have learned are "normal abnormalities" and are found in people with NO back pain). I was in the same age range as you, married (with children). Trying to be perfect in my various roles. Putting tremendous pressure on myself. I had pain for 10 years before finding Dr. Sarno's work. I had tried many treatments; exercise, cervical traction, PT, massage, medication, myotherapy, chiropractic, acupuncture. Even surgery on my shoulder for a supposed shoulder impingement. I only received short term relief from some of these treatments. The surgery did nothing to help the pain. I became quite debilitated towards the end of that time. Not to mention anxious and depressed.
I found Dr. Sarno's Healing Back pain book and began to improve. It has been a process for me but worth the effort. I did not have an instantaneous recovery, and have had some of the other TMS equivalents, but have never been in the severe pain that I was in. I no longer fear activity and have been able to dance, scuba, paint an entire house, and ride a bike over a hundred miles in one day (after a few weeks of training).
I'm still the same person (personality wise) and sometimes can have mild tightness, but can help it go away by doing the various things learned in Dr. Sarno's books. Things like journaling, Expressing my emotions appropriately (anger, sadness, fear), doing a fun activity, giving myself a break, dealing with "stuff".
I did a lot of reading on the mind body connection after finding Dr. Sarno's work and I think I can save you some time. All the best books I read, confirmed Dr. Sarno's theory. It makes sense and it works. Not just for me, but for tens of thousands of his patient's as well as the other TMS Docs patients and the countless others who have become pain free just by reading his books.
Read and re-read, journal, feel your feelings. Be kind to yourself, and feel hopeful, because you have found the solution to your years of pain. You will get better.
Good luck.
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 17:13:05
I sort of skipped some of your questions because I got a certain point in and mainly want to say: it sounds like you have TMS, your pain and experience has all the hallmarks of it. If you keep reading Sarno material, I think you will find the answers to some of your questions. Pay particular attention to the issue of conditioning. At this point you are conditioned to feel pain on certain activities, so your pain might not always directly relate to emotional issues, but it relates indirectly overall. So you're not necessarily holding onto stuff from the time this started (could be, but may not be), you just got to where you expected to have pain.
This would also be why working on emotional issues wouldn't necessarily address the pain directly until you make the connection, but the fact that you're doing emotional work too should help you as you make the connections to the pain.
It's great that you're noticing ways that the pain doesn't really make physical sense. Keep noticing that because that's important to increase your understanding of the pain not having a physical cause. Physically-caused pain should correlate with physical fitness and activity, and respond to physical treatment, and as you noted, yours doesn't.
It's hard to rule everything out 100%, but you can eliminate most causes, and you should if you can. The fact that you want to eliminate 100% is one indicator of a TMS-type perfectionist/goodist personality. And that personality doesn't really make you 'harder' to treat or anything, it's pretty much usual for personality to play a part in generating TMS, along with past and current life events (those are the three major factors).
Keep reading, start exploring the connections between pain and emotions, and keep seeing how the physical explanations don't really add up. I think you'll find you're on the right path now.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| positivevibes |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 17:11:31
I'm a 47 year old mother of two and I've been suffering with TMS for several years. Although I only found Dr. Sarno's books six months ago, and it has helped me tremendously. I've read all of his books, seen his video lecture, and also have listened to the audio lecture by Dr. Schechter (he has a slightly different take on TMS and IMO it's worthwhile hearing his audio lecture).
First of all, I would say that yes, your unresolved issues with your childhood, plus any current stressors can definitely cause TMS problems. This is psychological syndrome which manifests itself physically. You have to "think psychological" as Dr. Sarno says. Stop thinking that there's something wrong with your muscles or your body. There isn't. The problem lies in your mind.
My TMS has felt like stabbing pains, dull aches, and even strange phantom pains. One time, I was very anxious about something and it seemed as though my back should hurt (which I found so odd) and then a few days later...a TMS attack occurred! At its worst my TMS has been totally debilitating, and at its best it was either totally gone or reduced to a dull annoying ache. The pain moves around to different areas in my back and neck. I have a sporadic problem with one toe that I suspect may also be TMS.
Many of us on this board have been to chiros, orthos, PT, acupuncture, osteopaths -- the gamut. I also did Egoscue exercises, which helped somewhat but still didn't make the pain go away. Often people turn to Dr. Sarno's methods when they realize that the "old" treatments just aren't helping them anymore. That's because all the "old" methods assume that this is a physical problem when in fact it is not.
It's terrific that you had an MRI done, and even better that it shows basically no problems. You should be very happy about that, because that information can help you realize that there really ISN'T anything wrong with your back! What other evidence do you need? An MRI shows everything!
You do Pilates even though you're in pain?! Wow, you're a brave and tenacious woman! Shoot, when I'm in pain I tend to avoid doing anything (I baby myself too much; trying to get over that...) This should be proof to you that your body is strong and capable. Pilates can be difficult and it engages a lot of muscles. How could your muscles be weak if you can do those exercises? It doesn't make sense! You're probably in better shape than I am, and my back pain is (at the moment) extremely minimal (almost non-existent).
Regarding anti-depressants...I've been on several over the years. I had post-partum depression after the birth of my second child and had a very hard time shaking it. Pain makes depression worse. Sometimes it's a chicken-and-egg problem: what came first, the pain or the depression -- they feed on each other.
I don't want to take any more SSRI's either, because they make me gain weight. I'm already 15 lbs more than I want to be, and sorry but I won't take stuff that makes me really fat unless it's absolutely necessary. I found that CBT (Cognative Behavior Therapy) techniques helped me to break out of negative depression thinking and I've been able to overcome it.
Regarding hormones -- have you had your thyroid function checked? I ask this because I'm hypothyroid and it turned out that my TSH was higher than it has been in years when I had my last TMS attack. If you are hypothyroid, your muscles recover slower from challenges and will tend to ache more. So get the following tests done: TSH, Free T3 and Free T4, and antibodies. It's just a simple blood test. Your TSH should be no higher than 3.0.
I've been on birth control pills for years and have not noticed a correlation between them and pain (although I do sometimes get a menstrual migraine during placebo week, for which I take supplementary estrogen).
Please finish reading "Healing Back Pain" because it's a terrific book. Bookmark Page 82, the Review of Daily Reminders. It is very important (IMO) to do what he says on that page. When you finish the book, I would suggest that you begin keeping a journal of your feelings. It is a very important step in the process. You may think that you know how you're feeling, but you will be surprised at some of the things that come out in your journal. Concentrate on what happened that day and how you felt about it. What was bothering you? Don't suppress anything. Sit there balling your eyes out if you have to. It helps a lot!
After you've done this for a while, read the book again. Or, read another one of Dr. Sarno's books, such as The Divided Mind. You may also want to get Dr. Schechter's audio lecture and/or Dr. Sarno's video lecture.
Don't assume that this will go away quickly. It's a process. It takes time for your unconscious/subconscious mind to absorb the information. You may take two steps forward and one step backward, but in time you will get to your goal. Dr. Sarno says to yell at your brain. It sounds totally wacky but it works. Tell that TMS gremlin that you know what it's doing and you're not going to stand for it anymore!
I wish you the best of luck. The people on this board are very nice and supportive. We are all in different stages of overcoming TMS.
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| mk6283 |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 16:51:02
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
I’ve had chronic low back pain for 7 years.
You have TMS. Get to work and forget the rest of the stuff. Lay off the drugs, the methods, EMDR, etc., etc. TMS is your only way out at this point. Good luck!
Best,
MK |
| pandamonium |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 16:09:58
Hi hottm8oh
welcome to the board. I'm a relative newbie to all this TMS stuff as well, I found the Sarno books in Feb 08 and recognised myself and my situation in his books and have today been officially diagnosed by a TMS practitioner.
Your post stuck a chord with me: it sounds to me like you have TMS, the types of pain you describe, your IBS, the fact that you've had lots of investigations which have found nothing and the fact that you had a less than nurturing childhood are some of the clues.
To answer a few of your questions:
My pain is in my lumbar region and sacral region and it's like a knife has gone in and is being twisted.
In terms of oral contraception I've been off it for 4 years and have seen my situation worsen in that time so I don't think there's a connection there.
I was on a low dose anti depressent for my pain but although it worked for a while it eventually stopped working and I wonder if it was a placebo effect I was experiencing.
I'd put Sarno's books at the top of your pile and try and see a therapist if possible.
Panda
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