| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 03:43:01
Please “Board”, I need some advise.
I have had some bad problems with fibromyalgia and fatigue.
My pain is now something that I can handle -it does not bother me
at all, like it used to do. I have my bad “days” but often I can handle them well
And the pain subsides.
But the fatigue has been so much harder to deal with. Now and then I have
thought about “real diseases “ but all the tests I have done shows nothing.
So I am sure it is TMS!
The problem with the fatigue is that it is SO unpredictable and that it totally
gets me down. It has nothing to do with “normal fatigue”.
When I have periods with fatigue I often have a lot of night sweats as well (but I am
not in menopause) Anyone of you experienced night sweat as TMS ?
When some of my energy returns the night sweats subsides.
I also miss the possibility to discuss fatigue with others - it is very seldom
a question on this board - where we almost only discuss pain because that is what
people here suffer from.
My question is : Should I dare to travel to San Diego?
I am divorced and I met a new man two years ago. He is a doctor and a scientist.
I have had some hard time telling him of my physical problem (hard for me) -I mean fibromyalgia and
fatigue are not really high status diseases -quite the opposite.
Though he is a “conventional” doctor in many ways he is also open minded and as a scientist
he knows that mind and body are truly connected. So he has listened to my “Sarno theories” - in a bit sceptical but in the same time interested way. He sometimes thinks that I blame myself to much when I
use TMS techniques and don´t ge a god result - he think that it is contra productive ( it is hard not to blame yourself when you feel that the possibility
of healing are in your own hands - and you “fail” - you are not doing the work god enough…etc).
I work and I live a fairly normal life but I have given up to travel long distance. Because in the last six years it always made me SO fatigue and the pleasure is zero.
It is a pity because I am a traveller !
Now my new man have asked me to go with him to a conference in San Diego. He is going to speak about allergy and asthma ( but sorry guys -he will not mention Sarno… I have to work on that!).
My first reaction is YES! My second reaction is NO I can´t. It so damn boring to be in another country and not being able to do all the things you want -only feel the devastating tiredness. What if I have to “bring him down”.
And the fear of tiredness…
But my third thought is “I have to go” I have to go even if I hardly can stand up. I have to go -maybe I will be ok, maybe I will be tired - but that is not the question. The question is : Do I want to go to San Diego ?
And the answer to that is yes. Actually I also would like to go to Mexico…
It is a long journey from Denmark to San Diego and I am not really the person who needs a jetleg.
But….
What do you think ?
Kajsa
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| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 02:52:28
Dear Laura
In every post you write - you often write A LOT about feeling dizzy - the history
of it , when it occurs , your fear and when you think it will occur (but do not know for sure) etc.
I do not want to be un polite -and it´is SO EASY to say to other people what they shall
do and quite hard to do the same thing yourself.
But perhaps it is more easy to see a pattern in another person.
Anyway - I think that you really is to occupied by your dizziness even when it is
not around ( I read you as if it´s not around so much these days).
I think that you perhaps have to “let go of it”. Say goodbye. Stop giving it the attention
it gets today. I mean - it is so much better today. Look at that instead.
The crucial thing for me (in getting over the pain) was at STOP pay attention to it.
For a while I even left The Board because the board somehow reminded me of the pain and
writing about it/ discussing it was a kind of obsession who stopped me from healing.
My pain is very “easy” today - I do not fear it and I never think of it when it does not occur.
When it do occur (which is seldom these days) I treat it like something that does not mean very much to me.
Perhaps you think “how can she give me an advice when she is not ok herself“.
That is a reasonable thought - but I see my own pattern in you and I know how bad and contra productive
it was concerning the pain.
Just a thought from someone who also is a “obesesser” and knows that it is not easy.
By the way - I will go to San Diego.
Thanks to you!
Kajsa
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| Laura |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 18:38:19
Susie,
I love your attitude! It is the same attitude I am trying to adopt for myself but have yet to get there. See, I'm scared to get on a plane for fear I'll start with the dizzy thing all over only worse. I know how I felt before and I know how bad some people are who have it from travelling. The thing is, now I am feeling much better and I'm afraid to rock the boat so to speak. The lady I talked about who was dizzy and took Valium and got on the plane anyway, she's fine. She's been fine for months and months now. I won't take Valium but if I could bring myself to get on the plane, I would do as you say and "thumb my nose" at it. Thanks for sharing your positive attitude. I can see TMS isn't going to get you!
Laura
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| Susie |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 18:13:02
Kajsa-I too suffered terrible fatigue along with nightsweats and a jillion other equivalents. I was so exhausted my friends told me I began looking hollow eyed. When I found the good doctor and my symptoms began to subside, I came to this conclusion. I could give in to the fear of the symptoms and let tms narrow my life down to nothingness or risk the symptoms and live my life. The worst that can happen if you travel is fatigue which you have already. On the other hand, if you thumb your nose at tms, you will weaken its hold on you. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain. I just went thru a really stressful 2 weeks of travel and business and I broke out in hives. Big Deal. They itch. Who gives a s--t. Go on the trip. It will be ok. By the way, I sometimes still get night sweats about 2 hours after I go to sleep. Big deal. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 02:14:27
[quote]Originally posted by EileenTM
. I hope you find this helpful.
I find it very helpful. It gives me hope.
And I have experienced the same thing : when I have a distraction
(positive or negative) the fatigue often subside.
Kajsa |
| EileenTM |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 16:36:12
It is nice to hear from someone who has the same symptoms. For a long time I thought it was menopause because my symptoms were different than those who have back pain. But the symptoms did not get any better over time. Plus as I menitoned in an earlier post, all my symptoms disappeared for about 2 weeks after I had some surgery earlier this year to remove a benign ovarian mass. As I started healing physically the tms symptoms returned. That made me think it might not be menopause, especially since I do not have hot flashes. So in the past month I decided to focus just on tms and forget any other menopause related remedies. And it seems to be working, slowly but surely. Each day I make a list of what could be bothering me. I write out a new list each day. I also write about any of my dreams and I have been having a lot of them. I would consider that I have a good life, but my list is pretty long. I also read Sarno and Sopher's books usually just before bed. It seems to improve my sleep. The result is that the fatigue is not as bad. It is easier to get out of bed and I am sleeping better. I used to feel like I had a hangover in the morning, even though I rarely drink. However I still do not feel joy. I visit this board often because it gives me hope. I have been in and out of therapy, but that does not do as much good as reading the books. I hope you find this helpful. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 02:26:39
In a way, what I have might be a cross between fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. I wake up exhausted hardly able to get out of bed, then by evening feel a bit more energy. It is emotional however because I can easily do sports such as walk, play tennis etc.
Eileen
This is exactly my symptoms! Often worse in the morning and more energetic in the evening.
And I can walk long distance etc - it does not make any different.
But one thing is sure - to rest does not help. (But sometimes you have to because you can not do anything else.)
The fatigue is so unpredictable. I can feel like I wake up from a operation in the morning and then in the
evening feel quite good. And vice verse.
I also consider it fibromyaligia and CFS (which are closely related) but these days I try to think of it as
“only TMS”. I am actually sure of that! But even so not very succesful in treating it.
Do you mind tell me more about how you worked with the fatigue and how you feel right now?
All the best!
Kajsa
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| EileenTM |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 21:57:22
Kajsa, I too do not have the usual symptoms. But fatigue is one of mine along with ringing in the ears, mood swings, poor quality sleep. I did have some tendonitis in various areas but that went away immediately when I first read MBP. Since I am going thru menopause I thought that the remaining symptoms might be related. However I have never had hormonal problems. Now that I am treating them as tms equivalents, they are going away. In a way, what I have might be a cross between fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. I wake up exhausted hardly able to get out of bed, then by evening feel a bit more energy. It is emotional however because I can easily do sports such as walk, play tennis etc. And as I have started doing the work with my emotions, the fatigue is less and less. For myself I do find travel is good. Something about a change of scene seems to help get my mind out of its rut. Plus San Diego is such a beautiful place. Good luck with your decision. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 09:17:05
[quote]Originally posted by Kavita
Dear Kajsa,
I find that my fatigue is almost exclusively emotional.
I am also sure that it is emotional.
But I have had little success when I treat it like TMS.
The fatigue has a bad grip (right word?) on me.
I try (like hell sometimes) to ignore it.
I think that the FEAR for fatigue (because it brings me down so much) is what I have to fight (even) more aggressive.
I have very little fear of pain these days (though I sometimes have pain-but not to bad).
I never obsess over pain but I do obsess over fatigue.
Kajsa
Thank you for all advices!
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| pault |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 06:01:00
Does the same to me Kavita! (fatigue/tms)Paul. |
| Laura |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 15:02:18
Kajsa,
I saw Dr. Schechter as well, back in the summer. He is a really nice man and it felt so good to have my suspicions validated. I believed I had TMS and her verified it for me. I can't say I am "cured" yet or anything, but it certainly helps to have a medical doctor (a Sarno protogee no less) tell you that you are correct in your diagnosis. I also saw a TMS psychologist he recommended named Don Dubin. He is a very gentle, kind man and I got a lot out of talking to him. I initially read Mindbody Prescription a few years ago but never really applied any of it until this year. Lately, I'm really seeing how my TMS jumps around from one thing to another. In the past two months, I have had three colds, conjunctivitis in both eyes, back pain, severe neck pain, headaches, stomach distress that was so bad I thought I needed a colonoscopy, and my usual episodes of dizziness. Sometimes I'm afraid to get up in the morning for fear of where my TMS has taken up new residence.
I'm really good at giving advice but not so good at taking it. People tell me I should just get on a plane and fight through my fear of getting worse dizziness (it started initially twice after plane trips). I'm driving (11 hours a day) to see my family in Texas (from L.A.) just to avoid the plane trip. It's taken me nearly three years since my trip to Cancun where this bad dizzy/floaty thing started. I met someone on a website for my dizziness (the name of the diagnosis is Mal de Debarquement) and she had the same thing. In fact there were many others who had it and it freaked me out. I think I got worse reading about all the cases of this so called "rare" problem. The lady I met finally just said to heck with it and took some Valium and got on a plane and guess what? Her dizziness disappeared. It has not returned. Did the Valium cure her? No. Probably not. The cure was in getting on the plane and telling herself she wasn't going to let this thing beat her and she won! I need to do the same, I know it. And, so do you. Get on the plane, go to La Jolla and have a relaxing, restful vacation. Just go for it!
I know what you mean about the exhaustion. I agree with the other post that many of us who have TMS suffer from exhaustion. After all, I think it's exhausting carrying around all this repressed anger and rage, not to mention the day to day worrying. Like I've said before, it's a full time job having TMS.
Good luck to you and have a wonderful trip. Let us know how it went when you get back.
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| Louise |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 13:37:41
Kajsa -
You'll love LaJolla. It's beautiful! Its a funky little beach town with lots of cool shops and beautiful houses to dream that you might one day enter. Lots of trees and nature and beautiful scenery.
I live in LA, & have seen Dr. Schechter. He's very nice - kind of nerdy and quiet, but he's a great listener and I did find that seeing a TMS physician helped me accept the idea of TMS more readily.
When you get to California, don't put a lot of pressure on yourself to do or see a lot of things. Take some time to relax in the hotel. If they have a spa or jacuzzi, endulge yourself. If you feel like exploring LaJolla, do that, but take the time to have a nice lunch too. If you find that trying to get to LA to see Dr. Schechter is too stressful, don't worry about it. Just relax and enjoy yourself. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 07:53:53
You are such dears!
(can you express it like that?)
and I read much carefully your advices.
Thank you.
Yes ,(Tennis Tom) the company (Johnson &Johnson) that arrange the conference is situated in La Jolla.
My boyfriend goes there from time to time and says that it is a very nice area.
Doctors are a very conservative group of people in the way they observe symptoms and diseases. And
of course Johnson &Johnson have no interest at all in Dr Sarno -how can they make money out of him?
My boyfriend is normally working for the University (and only doing some consulting for medicine companies )
and perhaps that makes him more open minded. When I explain Sarno theories and also tell him about “The Board” he often says things like “we actually do not know what happens when we are in pain” and he fully agree on that conventional medicine has absolutely nothing to offer people who suffers from pain syndromes.
I think he sometimes think that “I try to hard” to get rid of my symptoms in “my own way“ (witch is not scientifically proved bla bla bla etc).
But what is my options?
If I sit down and wait for scientifically proof I guess I will die in pain.
I am very convinced about TMS and I truly believe that my symptoms comes from my emotions / lack of emotions.
”I think treatment by a analytical physcologist is what you need ” (Pault)
Actually I have tried that. For many years. It helped a lot but not with my symptoms. I didn´t know about TMS in that time. I think Sarno stress the fact that it is crucial to know how TMS works.
”maybe take a side trip up to LA to see Dr. David Schecter?”
That is a god idea. I mean I live so far from ”civilisation ” when it comes to TMS. There are non
of this doctors in Scandinavia.
I have read about ”reverse therapy” in London
( http://www.reverse-therapy.com/testimonials/index.html) and thought about going there. It sounds very much like Sarno but it is hard to tell from an advertisement. But it seems like they have affective methods.
Anyone of you seen Dr David Schester?
Was it valuable?
I have had some doubt about it also because my boyfriend will pay may trip and I am not use to
that kind of arrangements. I have always travelled for my ”own money” so to speak.
But I am ”a poor” librarian and freelance journalist and can not afford the ticket right know.
But if you turn things around a bit - you can actually look at it in another way:
Johnson&Johnson helps me to se Dr Schester. They pay money to my boyfriend and because of that I can se a TMS doctor.
It kind of amuse me to look at it in that way…
And finally -thank you for your comments.
I will go to San Diego.
Writing and reading on the Board made it much easier to make a decision.
Kajsa
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:32:24
Dear Kajsa,
Unless you go you'll never know. San Diego is a nice area. I've been to La Jolla, just north of Downtown. Very beautiful, trendy upscale "village". Lot's of high-tech and bio-science corps. I wouldn't be surprised if your boyfriend's conference is being held there. Dr. Shecter is north of there about 100 miles in LA. You could maybe make an appointment to see him, his contact info. should be in the links.
IMHO, all physical and emotional states have a TMS component. You speak of your fatigue and fibro as if they are TMS step-children, not worthy of this board. This seems to be a normal viewpoint of TMS'ers. I felt that way about my hip, glossying over the brief citation in MBP. When you reach a fuller acceptance of TMS you realize it is not only about back pain. Sarno's latest book title, THE MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION, says it all. The mind and the body are intertwined and indivisble.
If you have enough energy to go to work everyday, you probably have enough energy to sit on a plane and do the tourist thing. I think your fatigue is coming from the mental energy of the struggle your brain puts you through fighting the ambivalence between the YES and NO sides of your brain. You don't need to go surfing or sky-diving. My favorite part of travel is lying in the hotel room and ordering room service. Travel should be more about observing other cultures rather than wearing yourself out doing. Everyone on this board reports that their TMS goes away on vacation.
Your boyfriend, being a doctor and a scientist, is probably the least likely person to accept TMS theory. He may sound sympathetic, but it would take a seachange in his thinking to fully accept it. He would have to, in effect, change jobs. There's a reason there are only a handful of TMS doctors on the planet--it's a lonely place, your peers banish you to the other side of the moon. I bet the conference will be mostly about new meds for allergies and asthma,(TMS equivalents), maybe a little lip service to some new-age techniques like yogic pranayama breathing.
Your fatigue and fibro are serving their TMS purpose well to prevent you from doing and living your life. My advice would be, if you enjoy being with your boyfriend, then just do it. You'll never know until you try. Good luck. If the conference is being held at the Torrey Pines Hilton, defintiely go; beautiful resort hotel, golf, tennis, tres luxe. |
| Kavita |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:28:51
Dear Kajsa,
I find that my fatigue is almost exclusively emotional. What I mean is that I have something that is bothering emotionally, which ends up making me physically very tired. Depression also leads to fatigue, and let's face it, a lot of us are depressed; it's the nature of the TMS gremlin!
I think you could benefit enormously from a change of scenery. Perhaps you could plan something in San Diego that is relaxing, like seeing museums, going to a spa, trying some yoga classes - something you want to do in your regular day but never have the time. Plan a vacation for yourself, and don't expect to be miserable. At the same time, if you don't feel ambitious, tell yourself it is OK to feel tired, and treat yourself to room service, a movie, and a walk to get some fresh air.
In a nutshell, tell yourself it is OK to feel tired! Many of us in this forum are "do-ers" and feel guilty or useless or that there is something wrong with us if we aren't do something. So take a vacation, do nothing if that's what strikes you, and don't feel bad about it! Don't feel obligated to see all the sites just because you are there. Learn how to make travel fun again! And don't feel travel will be a waste because you feel tired. If you go there with the attitude that you will take it one day at a time, and you will make the most out of what you can, then you will have a good time.
Good luck! |
| holly |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:09:44
As the Nike commercial say's "JUST DO IT!" You don't seem to have anything to loose. Let us know how it works out. I bet you end up having a great time!  |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 05:54:16
Hey Kajsa.
Why don't you go on the trip and maybe take a side trip up to LA to see Dr. David Schecter?It's only 120 miles away(a 45 minute flight or a 2+ hour drive depending on traffic)
It seems like you might benefit from seeing someone in person,,,you believe but still have some reservations.Chronic Fatigue is just another manifestation of TMS.....
Or..you could just go to challenge the notion that you can't.
Baseball65
Baseball65 |
| pault |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 04:45:04
The problems you have are tms,that is why there is no reason for those two problems and no successful treatment.I think treatment by a analytical physcologist is what you need to feel better.Those problems are holding you hostage,via your unconscious brain and doing a great job of it!It is fairly obvious that your brain does not want your feelings out,and fears the surfacing of feeling you have and will do anything to keep it from breaking out.You have to be defiant and break away,feel free from it.I think it would be a great time to e-mail a tms doctor in Calf.for an appointment while you are there,and get a positive diagnosis.Then keep in contact by e-mail,get connected with the correct therapist at home and beat the tms.It may take time to find the correct therapist but,well worth the effort to feel good again.Hope you feel energetic soon!-Paul. |
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