| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Curiosity18 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 15:06:51
I'm wondering if any folks have had the TMS experience of shoulder pain and popping. This started around a month ago, (approximately a week after swimming for the first time this year), first as pain and popping with certain movements, then progressing to "generally painful" along with even worse pain/ popping. It's as though the shoulder just "catches" in certain movements.
To complicate things I attempted to contact a local TMS physician who was away on vacation at the time. I left a detailed message of what was going on and asked him to contact me when he returned to the office. In the meantime I was fortunate enough to be able to speak to Dr. Sarno by phone, who thought it was TMS. He also said that if I had an MRI, it's very possible that some benign abnormality would show up (to which the pain would be attributed), thus further strengthening the belief in a physical cause.
I was quite relieved to hear this, however the next day I received a message from the local TMS physician, who stated that I should definitely get this checked out, because there could potentially be something wrong, and that often you need a combination of psychological and physical approaches to these painful conditions. Now I'm feeling doubtful, and not surprisingly the pain has intensified and has spread throughout my entire shoulder and into my neck.
I would really appreciate any feedback on this. On one hand I felt so fortunate to have spoken to Dr. Sarno, yet I have this doubt planted that is making me fearful of further "injuring" myself. I have stopped my Pilates class and swimming because of this fear.
Peace and Thanks-
Curiosity |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Curiosity18 |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 19:22:30
Thank you everyone for responding.
Salamander, your point regarding the nocebo was exactly the one that Dr. Sarno made when I spoke to him. Your symptoms sound so much like mine. I'm glad to hear that at least you didn't have surgery!
MK, I think I'll give this a wholehearted TMS approach for now. I'm so darned suggestible that if an MRI does show anything, even minor I will probably run with it and spiral deeper into symptoms.
ACL, your suggestions sound really sensible to me. If at some point I change my mind with regard to the MRI/xray, I'll look into having it reviewed by Sarno or another TMS physician.
la kevin, I'm glad to hear that you are continuing to swim without any problems and that at least it doesn't make the pain worse for you. I also notice that when I focus on the tightness and popping the pain gets worse.
Baseball, thank you for reminding me that our bodies are not fragile rubber bands! And yes, I could need a painful distraction right now from 1. a stressful work environment and job change, 2. aging parents in and out of the hospital (and me, guilt-ridden over moving out of state) 3. Ongoing marital stress.
Interesting how just writing it out here makes it more real to me!
Peace and ThankS-
Curiosity
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| salamander |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 11:42:16
The only problem with getting an MRI is that a reverse placebo can take place. If any thing out of the ordinary shows up, then you might start to question TMS as a cause. This has happened to me before.
Now my story....
I was doing a lot of swimming to "rehab" a knee which was most likely a TMS problem. As a result, my should locked up and I could not raise my arm higher than my chest. I ended up getting two MRI's on my shoulder, which showed that my rotator cuff tendon was supposedly inflamed, plus my acromium process was "hooked". Needless to say, this throwed me into panic mode and my shoulder hurt even more. Doctor prescribed anti-inflamatories, etc....
I remember my shoulder popping and generally feeling like it might "slip" out. At any rate, the pain, and the "instability" went away after I spent several weeks, and dollars, going to a massage therapist, as well as doing should excercises. Looking back on it, I feel positive that my shoulder was TMS'ing, along with my knee.
Regards,
Doug
quote:
Originally posted by mk6283
Get the MRI. You will never be able to conquer the TMS without it. Doubt in the diagnosis will only inhibit your progress. If you have some little tears here and there, then we can determine together (or even better, Dr. Sarno or some other TMS physician can hopefully reassure you) if the findings are simply incidental/benign/noncontributory. What's the worse that can happen? The MRI shows some massive tear that CAN be surgically corrected and then your pain disappears with surgery? Yes, people, this CAN happen! I see no harm in having an MRI of your shoulder. That would be my approach. Best of luck.
Best,
MK
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| salamander |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 11:15:26
quote:
Originally posted by mk6283
Get the MRI. You will never be able to conquer the TMS without it. Doubt in the diagnosis will only inhibit your progress. If you have some little tears here and there, then we can determine together (or even better, Dr. Sarno or some other TMS physician can hopefully reassure you) if the findings are simply incidental/benign/noncontributory. What's the worse that can happen? The MRI shows some massive tear that CAN be surgically corrected and then your pain disappears with surgery? Yes, people, this CAN happen! I see no harm in having an MRI of your shoulder. That would be my approach. Best of luck.
The only problem with getting an MRI is that a reverse placebo can take place. If any thing out of the ordinary shows up, then you might start to question TMS as a cause. This has happened to me before.
Now my story....
I was doing a lot of swimming to "rehab" a knee which was most likely a TMS problem. As a result, my should locked up and I could not raise my arm higher than my chest. I ended up getting two MRI's on my shoulder, which showed that my rotator cuff tendon was supposedly inflamed, plus my acromium process was "hooked". Needless to say, this throwed me into panic mode and my shoulder hurt even more. Doctor prescribed anti-inflamatories, etc....
I remember my shoulder popping and generally feeling like it might "slip" out. At any rate, the pain, and the "instability" went away after I spent several weeks, and dollars, going to a massage therapist, as well as doing should excercises. Looking back on it, I feel positive that my should was TMS'ing, along with my knee.
Regards,
Doug
Best,
MK
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| la_kevin |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 21:40:30
I swim every day . My left shoulder 'pops' every time I do the Breast Stroke. It never fails. Unde water I can hear it pops every stroke. It doesn't 'hurt' but I can feel it. Something may be wrong in there, but I find when I concentrate on it, it gets tighter and hurts more. I've tried stretching before swimming, in many different positions, still to no avail, it always pops. It may be a benign physical abnormality, but I don't think enough to cause injury or be worried. Then again it could be something wrong with a joint or socket, I guess get it checked to see if there is any abnormality. If not, it's probably muscle tension ....which is of course ...TMS.
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"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 20:31:30
I don't give advice, but I have recent detailed experience with TMS related shoulder issues.
I got really mad at the team I was coaching. They rolled up like a bunch of wusses against the first competitive team they faced. We were 15-3 at one point, but they got progressively sloppier over the season to where they lost a 5 game series in the state tourney to a team we would have murdered in the first few weeks.
Throwing batting practice really hard one day,later lifting weights (in anger) and doing a few new exercises my shoulder slowly became excruciating... felt like I had an Ice pick in it...numbness, tingles,pain,broken glass.
I have played baseball forever. I am certain that if there is something that can be torn in there, I've torn it...many times over.
..but,,,,, maybe it was real this time? Maybe I really did something bad that needed surgery? It felt really tight and I could barely lift it over my head.
I got the first clue that I was right (assuming it was TMS) one day at work. I was around the only manager in my company that I Loathe...he is the biggest most uptight penis. I have to act like him whenever I'm around him. Enjoying your job is strictly verbotten around this prick.
He asked me to carry this 100 pound+ table up an entire basketball arena's staircase, 100 yards up a slanting hall....by myself. (He couldn't help because he had carpal tunnel>>LOL>>).
When I realized that the jerk wasn't going to help, I picked it up...and the pain came, big time. Hot nails being pounded into the flesh. I focused on how much I hated the guy...smiling the whole way. In agony I carried it all the way without a break, balancing it on my head.
When I got to where I was taking it, I laughed.Than I dropped and did 20 pushups.
I hated my job. I had just spent 4 months wasting my time with a bunch of ungrateful quitters.... and I was now doomed to the rush of our companie's crazy summer, with no respite, no holidays, not looking forward to anything.
I went through the 'program' again and was pain free in about a month or so (I didn't keep track...per Sarno's recommendations in HBP_.
If popping noises in joints means something bad, than I am screwed because I pop everywhere. Shoulders, jaw, hip when I do situps, both knees.
played ball today, worked on my knees for 6 hours, did a lot of pushups. AOK. Maybe tommorow I'll fall apart. But I sincerely doubt it.
The Body heals everything. period. Even if something happens, if it's occupying that sort of distraction in your mind, it's TMS related at the very least. Usually TMS generated.
Why would a symptom be really convenient for you in your life right now? That's a far more relevant question.
But...I am sure my shoulder is meat, and I can flat bring the cheese.(braggart....ego maniac with low self esteem)
-bb65 |
| mk6283 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 15:53:34
Get the MRI. You will never be able to conquer the TMS without it. Doubt in the diagnosis will only inhibit your progress. If you have some little tears here and there, then we can determine together (or even better, Dr. Sarno or some other TMS physician can hopefully reassure you) if the findings are simply incidental/benign/noncontributory. What's the worse that can happen? The MRI shows some massive tear that CAN be surgically corrected and then your pain disappears with surgery? Yes, people, this CAN happen! I see no harm in having an MRI of your shoulder. That would be my approach. Best of luck.
Best,
MK |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 15:34:43
quote:
Now I'm feeling doubtful, and not surprisingly the pain has intensified and has spread throughout my entire shoulder and into my neck.
It sounds like your body is making it abundantly clear that emotional factors are involved here!
If you have access to Dr. Sarno, I wonder if he would be open to the idea that you get an MRI and he looks at it to see if there's anything other than 'normal abnormalities'.
Alternately, you could just try going about your normal life and work on the belief that this is TMS. You can take a while off from your exercise if you're not confident enough to do it right now. If you have some success dealing with the shoulder in everyday life where whatever you do to it isn't as stressful as in exercise, you might find that you get the confidence you need with it.
"approximately a week after swimming for the first time this year" is irrelevant. If you'd injured yourself swimming, you should have felt it within a day or two at most. I wonder if this attempt on your brain's part to connect the two is showing that you still have some fear that your body isn't really up to physical activity. Pain often tries to come home to roost when we start something new -- exploiting the opportunity for doubt. Stay confident that your body is strong and capable.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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