| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| andy989 |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 17:33:44
Hi all,
About a year ago, I successfully healed myself of TMS that I originally attributed to thoracic outlet syndrome.
About 6-7 weeks ago, I sprained my wrist at the gym. It seemed to have all the classic symptoms of a sprain, namely swelling. The doctor and physical therapist confirmed this based on the symptoms -- an x-ray came back normal. The swelling mostly went away after about 4 weeks -- it's returned a bit on occasion when I've used it to lift, etc. without icing or otherwise irritated it.
I considered whether this might be TMS, but I don't think TMS 'injuries' usually swell?
I read a thread where someone commented on this (commenting that they don't believe swelling occurs when TMS is the cause of symptoms), but I wanted to see if anyone else had thoughts?
Thanks very much.
Andy |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| andy989 |
Posted - 05/04/2008 : 11:56:02
thanks! |
| skizzik |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 14:34:37
for knee swelling go to MBP 2nd paragraph pg 99.
I did'nt think swelling was possible w/ tms either until I replied to this post.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3793&SearchTerms=and+there+it+is |
| andy989 |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 11:22:09
Thanks, Kevin. My swelling was relatively mild, but it was real -- the doctor could see it. It probably could have been either a grade 1 (no tearing) or 2 (partial tearing) sprain, at least at some point.
Quite possibly, as you suggested, TMS springboarded off the original injury. Or maybe I'm not 100% healed -- it's a possibility too -- it's not as if it's been several months or years. But I agree that strange pain (particularly after seven weeks) that I can move around and make almost disappear very quickly doesn't sound like a sprain anymore.
Isn't it hard to reconcile the possibility of real symptoms AND TMS? Very possible, but it sure makes it harder to talk myself out of TMS symptoms.
Or maybe it is fully healed -- hard to say at this point. I think that even if it's not, it should be soon, so if symptoms persist, it will become even more evident that it's TMS.
You may find this interesting -- when I spoke to Dr. Sarno over the phone in February 2007 about a separate injury that seemed to evolve into TMS, he was very quick to exclaim, "there probably never was any real injury." Maybe he does indeed come across many, many cases where there was no actual injury to begin with. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 02:02:34
quote:
Originally posted by andy989
Thanks everyone!
Hi Kevin, it's been seven weeks, and I suspect TMS largely because, in addition to my history of TMS, the pain has randomly moved to places in my wrist/hand that I obviously didn't sprain -- it changes within seconds...I can make it completely go away within seconds, too (and stay that way for quite awhile, no matter what I'm doing activity-wise), when I accept the TMS diagnosis. Also, I think it's unlikely that I'd have such pain after seven weeks after what started as a minor sprain -- I can be sure at least that I didn't come close to tearing the ligament. And I basically didn't move it for six weeks -- I was wearing a splint until this week. There was never more than minor swelling, no bruising, only mild pain, etc. Do you know of literature that suggests that swelling cannot be caused by TMS?
Ok, that's a bit different than what I pictured. You say now it was a minor swelling. Obviously enough to seek a Doctor though, so I was imagining real SWELLING.
Sounds like it is TMS based on your recent post. If it can move at will, it's something psychogenic. As far as any literature, I have none that I can immediately point to online. I just thought I heard through varous tapes and talking with my old doctot(Dr.Shecter) that swelling was not really a regular TMS symptom. And I've never heard Sarno or others mention it as a consistant sign of TMS, so it's harder for me to prove a negative, than to ask if someone knows any quotes from TMS doctors saying "swelling is in the bounds of TMS".
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"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
| andy989 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 22:38:01
Thanks everyone!
Hi Kevin, it's been seven weeks, and I suspect TMS largely because, in addition to my history of TMS, the pain has randomly moved to places in my wrist/hand that I obviously didn't sprain -- it changes within seconds...I can make it completely go away within seconds, too (and stay that way for quite awhile, no matter what I'm doing activity-wise), when I accept the TMS diagnosis. Also, I think it's unlikely that I'd have such pain after seven weeks after what started as a minor sprain -- I can be sure at least that I didn't come close to tearing the ligament. And I basically didn't move it for six weeks -- I was wearing a splint until this week. There was never more than minor swelling, no bruising, only mild pain, etc. Do you know of literature that suggests that swelling cannot be caused by TMS? |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 21:32:49
Additionally. A sprain would take about 4 weeks to heal in some areas. That is not out of the normal bounds of healing time. If you aggravate it soon after it heals, it may rebel a little. Totally within limits of a 'normal' injury. |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 21:30:29
Could anyone link to a quote where SWELLING is a symptom of TMS? If you sprained a body part, and it swelled, why would you think it is TMS? Why would you not think that it's a sprain, which swelling is consistent with more so?
I have not heard many TMS experts mention swelling as a TMS 'usual' symptom, in fact I thought the opposite was true.
WHy do people just jump on immediately and say "Oh yeah, sounds like TMS to me, definitely could be TMS, yep, that's TMS alright"?
QUote:
"About 6-7 weeks ago, I sprained my wrist at the gym. It seemed to have all the classic symptoms of a sprain, namely swelling. The doctor and physical therapist confirmed this based on the symptoms -- an x-ray came back normal."
An Xray was to show that you didn't break any bones. X-Rays aren't meant for soft tissue damage. You had a Doctor tell you it's a sprain and included all the classic symptoms of sprain. It went away for a while and you aggravated it. TMS could be the 'aggravations', but not the initial and very real injury you had. Your body will use the REAL injury as the platform to launch from.
But again, a real aggravation would mean swelling. Sorry, but I don't think TMS swells things. I believe it can create 'knots' in muscle tissue , but the swelling around joints like you describe, no.
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"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 20:42:11
I just went though a symptom sampler that FELT like my knee was swollen. They sucked some stuff out, but I have a feeling the stuff was always there. I can't go back and 'undo' what they did, but it sure stunk of TMS.
I definitely needed a symptom (abandonment issues) and it was mighty timely.
I noticed a little spasm I had been having in my gut during anxious periods ceased when the knee began to occupy my attention.
I think TMS will go for whatever you will believe. Remember...your brain is an integrated system , beyond our understanding. It knows what you do and don't believe in. If you believe that TMS Can't exist with swelling, and you need a distraction, swelling would be perfect.
I don't believe in shoulder, back, neck or stomach pain...so my knee 'swells' . None of those others could have held my attention.
-bb65 |
| andy989 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 08:01:56
Thanks so much, Littlebird. I'm pretty convinced that this is TMS too. I supposedly had a mild sprain that, at seven weeks, feels as severe as ever at times...the orthopedist and physical therapist said that it's clear from looking at the area that there's nothing terribly wrong...everything feels normal...when I feel pain and then really accept that TMS is causing it, the pain disappears in seconds...And except when I "irritate" it doing something that would seem perfectly harmless, like stretching after I yawn, there's no swelling.
Not going to do anything drastic yet...I immobilized it in a slint for six weeks, and it really does seem pretty week, but to sum it up...I don't think I have a sprained wrist anymore. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:07:35
Hi Andy,
I experienced some swelling with other symptoms that were strictly TMS--there was never any injury and the cluster of symptoms I had at the time all arose after some events that triggered a lot of frustration and anger for me.
At the time my swelling involved my entire leg and foot. It wasn't severe swelling, but enough that other people noticed and commented on it, and my shoe and sock left indentations in the swollen tissue. The swelling was worst at a point when I felt especially stressed, then it diminished to where I had just enough for me to be aware of it, but not for it to be real obvious to anyone else, unless they looked closely. The entire cluster of symptoms, including the swelling, disappeared on their own shortly after I read The Divided Mind and started reading this forum. But the fact that I had no injury to cause the swelling made it much easier to conclude that it was TMS than if I'd had some injury that could be connected to the swelling.
I'm not trying to contradict what was said on the other thread that you read. It's certainly true that swelling is normally associated with injury. If enough time passes that you believe it no longer makes sense to assume that continued swelling is still related to the injury, and your doctors don't find any reason for there to be ongoing swelling, you might want to read through some of the past threads that discuss other's experiences with swelling. |
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