| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 12:44:07
I am finding this really hard. I have gone back to working with Sarno's pscychologist and my equivalent of anxiety has come on extremely strong. Last week, I had 2 sessions wtih the therapist -
and oh boy, I was in a complete tailspin.
I called Sarno who told me this is completely normal.....and a good sign!! The unconscious is increasing the anxiety to keep me from getting at the real problem - the underlying rage. He told me to continue my meds and to continue the work.
Well - that's great I guess.....but ignoring anxiety is very very hard. When I am in it, I cannot do anything else except worry. It is a very effective distraction. I think - better than pain. If I get twinges in my back now - that doesn't bother me so of course they go away. How do you do this with the anxiety? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dor |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 13:08:57
Sometimes does it really matter what is causing it or whence it came? And, even if you find the answer does that make it all go away?
Don't struggle so hard with combining Weeks and Sarno or choosing which one, for they really are one in the same when you really think about it. Both suggest that you go through your day not worrying about the symptoms and not being afraid of them. Yesterday - anxiety, today - back pain. Each requires the same formula. Float through it as best you can, realize that it can not harm you, and accept yourself as you are today - not yesterday, not tomorrow, just today.
Most of the time, the more we struggle the harder the struggle becomes. It is in the letting go that healing begins.
The best advise I can give you is to find what works for you and do not doubt it. Isn't that what both Weeks and Sarno suggest and advocate? You must believe that you have the answer, and if you can't do that, then believe it for a bit of time each day. Take Weeks and Sarno, wrap them into a ball and believe. Each day it will grow if you step out of the way and let it.
Turn down the pages of the book where you find the best answers for you and read them over and over throughout the day. Every time you feel scared or lonely or unsure, read them. Then tell yourself you can do it, someone is there guiding you, and you are not alone.
I know it is never that easy - never. And, to even read my words might sound trite to you at times. But, please believe me, it is more than doable. Baby steps, even if they are baby steps you are on your way.
Thinking of you,
Dor |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:47:24
thanks Armchair. I started laughing when I read your thread. I am completely obssessing over all of this....just a hard habit to break! I will get busy thinking of other things. I know that I am on track and have finally found the answer. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:42:19
Suz, if I may, I think you're still overthinking this. :) You seem to be a bit caught in the circular "worrying about fixing the anxiety" and are repeating yourself on which problems you think you need to solve, which looks familiar -- circular anxiety-thinking that ignores proposed solutions (from both the self and others).
I'd suggest go back and read over the suggestions on this thread, really digest them, and work on trusting yourself and the universe to figure things out, including how to deal with the symptom imperative and how to combine Weekes and Sarno (I recall writing a long post on that subject :)).
The symptom imperative, to me, is a clear message that you're dealing with a unitary entity, not with anxiety and separately TMS. And one of the important things to do in TMS is stop obsessing. Getting back to the core of the program may help, especially in that the core is also in many ways what's similar to Weekes.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 07:12:20
Thank you so much Dor....the weird thing is that I woke up this morning with absolutely no anxiety at all but for the first time in a while, I had sciatic pain. This seems to underline the symptom imperative and now I am wondering how to combine Weekes and Sarno. Maybe Weekes only treats the symptoms of anxiety and not the actual cause. She did not believe in going back through one's childhood but addressing the erroneous pattern of thoughts. She said that most people she knows did not cure their anxiety at all by going over their childhood issues. One has to address ones thoughts.
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| Dor |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 21:23:44
Sborthwick, I am so glad Weeks is helping you and so glad you are finding your way easier. It is amazing how understanding and being more gentle with ourselves and life eases some of the anxiety. I agree with you totally - no need to label yourself or to accept a lable. Each of us deals with problems throughout our lives and when we lablel them we make them so much worse. How much easier to accept to simply say - I am dealing with some anxiety right now but I will get past it. And, it is true, you would not be lying to yourself.
Also how nice that you have found a way to release it, to "let it go". That is wonderful!
You are right, it will take time, but you are certainly finding your way now. I meant to say in a previous post to NOT measure time - how long it has been or will take. And, don't be too discouraged by bad days or bad times. Just remind yourself that it is all part of feeling better. Sure it is hard to find yourself feeling bad again, but it will pass, it will pass. There is also no reason to go searching for reasons. Simply accept that life and stress has upset you which is totally, totally normal.
I smiled reading your post as I am glad you are finding such comfort and help through Dr. Weeks, but more importantly how much more positive you sound. I am cheering you on!
Dor |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 21:02:15
I thought I might mention something I had insight about recently regarding having a "condition" or "disorder". Those terms are commonly used by people in the psych professions, and usually when you visit a therapist, they diagnose you with a DSM-IV condition, with a specific number, to describe what they think is happening with you.
At first I found it odd to think that my therapist thinks that I have a depressive disorder (dysthymia, DSM IV 300.4 :)), since I think I have TMS and equivalents and not a disorder per se, certainly not an organic one.
But recently I was thinking about it and realized that just because I reject the notion of anxiety or depression as a disorder in itself doesn't mean that I have to reject the concept of describing those disorders as such. In fact, I ended up finding it reassuring that there are known patterns in the way that depression and anxiety manifest, which is really all that psych people are saying when they give you a DSM code: you have symptoms that match a particular pattern.
It's reassuring because it means that they see what I (or you) have as something recognizable, something like a 'normal abnormality' in a way, to inapproriately appropriate a Sarno phrase. Something they can help with.
Having a disorder just means that you have a certain pattern of recognizable symptoms that are in some way disturbing your functioning so that you're not happy -- it's not a sentence about your future or anything, it doesn't necessarily mean you need medication or that you'll have it forever, or things like that.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 15:09:09
Dor,
Thank you so so much. That description was really helpful....you know what, I was looking for something more complex as a cure!! It just seems so simple - simple but not easy as it is new behaviour for me. I have noticed just over the last few days that I am feeling less relaxed. I had decided to give myself the big doom sign of "anxiety condition" over my head which has only made it worse - especially when a doctor tells you that this is the problem. I really, in time, want to get off the meds I am on - they are really low in dose but it woudl be great.
When I notice that my mind starts to worry about something, this time, I am just sitting through it and then sort of throwing it away - out to the Universe (or God as per my belief system). I do feel remarkable lighter. Also, a la Sarno - I have been telling myself that my reaction is just sensitization and doesn't matter. I dont' have to try and "fix" myself any more. I have become obssessed with trying to find a cure to my supposed "terrible situation"! Weekes is helping me no end |
| Dor |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 14:45:12
Exactly! It is the taking away of fear that calms the anxiety. Once you understand that it is only anxiety (or worry), what anxiety does to your physcial and emotional self, and that it can not harm you, then it begins to lower. Understanding that fear sets up adrenalin and produces symtoms goes a long way in reducing those symptoms because you lose the fear of it. You need not have panic attacks in order for her theories to work and much of her words apply to anxiety without the panic. "Floating" actually means nothing more than letting thoughts and anxiety come and go without worrying about them or being afraid of it. If you are worrying too much about yourself then worry, but don't be afraid of the worry. Tell yourself it is OK. You are going to feel this way for awhile and that is OK. See, not that different from Sarno - go through it, don't fight it or be afraid of it.
Often it is necessary to read and re-read. Things don't always make sense right away, and as it took you awhile to get into this pattern and believe it, it is going to take awhile for you to switch. That too is OK. As Weeks says - do measure time (how long you have felt this way, how long it is taking, how long will it take). You will find that as you read and re-read that certain phrases or thoughts will make sense to you or something will ring a bell.
Don't struggle to float. Struggling is another form of fear. Try to find a phrase that works for you. "Let go" is a good one. We hold so tightly to ourselves, afraid that if we let go we will fall apart. Actually it is the exact opposite. When you "let go" you can feel the body relax, if only for a little bit at first, but it does. It is the holding on so tightly that makes it stay or be worse. If that phrase doesn't work for you then find one that does. Again, don't struggle to find it or use it. Just tuck it away and say it quietly to yourself when needed.
Worry is anxiety. We all worry, we all experience anxiety, just on different levels at different times. We only get into trouble when we worry about worrying!!! And, we have all probably done that sometime too. The way to help that is to understand for knowledge is a powerful thing. When we understand we "let go", we "float" and then our bodies and our minds are able to quiet. Do not expect immediate success however.
One of the most important theories of Dr. Weeks is sensitization. Understand that and you are a long way towards losing the fear and the symtoms. You are now sensitized to your worry - your emotional and physical self. Totally normal, though uncomfortable. I do believe that Dr. Sarno speaks of sensitization. You become so sensitized to the anxiety or the back pain or the worry or the leg pain that it is basically all you are thinking about. When you can say - wow, I am only sensitized, then the healing begins.
There is much to learn from Dr. Weeks and much that she experienced in her own life. I found it very comforting that she was a trained doctor and that she had experienced much of this herself as she was traing to be a doctor. How comforting to know someone is talking to you that has felt it herself, is a trained professional, and so respected among her peers.
I am here if you have questions, but I am so glad you are reading. It is OK if it doesn't all make sense right away. Nothing worth doing ever really does! Most of all be faithful - you are not alone, many have experienced this, and I promise you it does get better and it can go away.
Dor |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 12:14:03
Thanks Dor. I am reading the book now. I don't suffer from panic attacks but do have a constant state of worrying - over thinking about myself. I am a little confused about Weeke's "cure" - I think it is just accept, float through the thoughts and don't worry about them? Sort of taking the fear out of anxiety. Not sure? |
| Dor |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 11:23:58
I am so delighted to see Dr. Claire Week's work mentioned here and used. I posted about her in other areas of this board. Her books definitely helped me 20 years ago and I feel they are still most valuable today. I have looked at many self-help books over the years, but hers is the one that helped the most, made most sense, and eased a great deal of anxiety. As I have posted before too, Dr. Sarno shares many of the same theories. I encourage anyone dealing and suffering with anxiety to read her books. Her work is so respected in psychology and the basis for so much of how anxiety is treated today.
Dor |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 08:52:15
Suz -- I had another thought about your therapist, regarding what you said about the 4th step. Maybe you actually did revisit and integrate your childhood anger already and now it's more important for you to focus on your present anger from life situations. I obviously don't know for sure, but it seems worth thinking about. At this point in therapy that's where I'm at, is making sure that current stuff that comes in is dealt with in a healthy way.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 07:30:17
Fabulous Hematite -thanks. I have also been trying something else in addition to Sarno. It is Claire Weeke's work - I got it from a website started by a guy who recovered from anxiety using her work. It is very much along Sarno lines. It is all about overcoming the fear of emotions and just feeling them...and not obsessing over fixing yourself all the time. Weekes feels that anxiety comes from a very oversensitized nervous system - and of course all the physical symptoms come from that too - all from the brain.
The guy's website is controllinganxiety.com. (hope it is ok to put another website on here). I really like combining Sarno and Weekes. I know that Don Dubin is a big fan of Claire Weekes work. I am already feeling a difference and a much more positive outlook |
| hematite |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 07:47:27
Hi again! I just wanted to tell you that I found this great resource for anxiety. You got me thinking that maybe there was something out there that would sort of even relieve me a little more and so I went out on the web looking yesterday. I found selftherapy.org and it does exactly what I've been attempting but it's really helpful because it's in a really good format and, at least for me, is a great daily reminder. It's $14.95 to download to your computer and has 10 mp3 recordings, the most helpful is the 14 minute one in the middle and I sort of fell asleep listening to that one but I'm sure there are a few more after that that may be really good. But the first listen through you should probably listen to all of it. It is really cool and I am going to try it for a week and see what happens. Report back in a week! |
| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 13:34:59
Hematite,
You are hilarious! I love that story - sort of "To thine own self be true" -
there is no doubt about it that I had tremendous guilt being upset or angry when little as it was very much frowned upon. I still have that guilt now. I think this is why it is so taboo for me to feel. The therapist is trying to get me to feel these taboo feelings so I can be more integrated. However - I did my 4th step and that was all on my childhood and all the people I was angry towards in my life - it was excruciating when I did it. I can't believe I have to go back to all that again in order to heal.
It says in the program that Resentment is the number one offender - I guess that is why I freak out when I get angry. I am trying to just sit in the feelings and not be so hard on myself - as you put it, be accepting and much kinder to myself. |
| hematite |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 13:03:00
It just depends. Sometimes it's the past, sometimes it is not the past. But I used to go weekly, now monthly.
You know, I wanted to add, I'm not always in a place where I'm soooo comfortable with this surrender process. I think in my excitement with these posts, I gave that impression. That's just not true. Sometimes - in fact, a lot of time, I really do want to know and be beyond where I'm at. It's all progress.
Maybe digging up the past is not useful for you. I really can't speak to your experience. It's helpful sometimes for me and sometimes it is a bit much.
I guess the question I have to ask myself, in terms of my spiritual connection, is "Do I live in fear of being punished for being my natural self?" For hating and anger and spite and wishing bad things for people who have hurt me? Because that's exactly who I am some of the time. But when I thought there was something I was supposed to do to stay on top of these emotions and somehow force them away, I really got f'd up.
Like I said in an email, these emotions really, for me, need to be surrendered to the universe, to be shifted. And the time table is not my own for them to shift, which would be always be now.
That's why I follow that 3 step process. And sometimes I also find I need to make an amend to some of the people I'm super angry with. And even though it seems counter intuitive, if I stay close to this surrender process, the ifs and whens of the amends process sort of get taken care of for me.
I'm not a Christian, but I read once that the job of a Christian is to love hatred away. To show up and love what is there. I think if that applies to other people, then that should especially apply to myself.
Taking it out of the spiritual realm, into the psychological, it's called self acceptance. Of all of it. The good and the bad.
Oh, I also wanted to say I heard this great story. It's total bull**** but I love it anyway. I'd like to preface it by saying once again, I'm not a Christian and I don't really believe in channeling, not that they aren't valid forms of spirituality, but I haven't been sort of led in either direction.
But supposedly some channeler somewhere channeled some warrior who had lived many lives. And in one of them, when he was dying of syphilis, he and his soldier friend, who was also dying of syphilis, came upon Jesus.
Jesus said to him, "Tell me your truth."
To which he replied, "Jesus, I gotta' tell you, I've been a soldier my whole life. I've murdered, raped and plundered. And I feel just horrible about the whole thing."
Jesus turned to his friend and said, "Tell me your truth."
His friend replied, "I've been a soldier my whole life as well. I've murdered, raped and plundered and I've loved every minute of it!"
Jesus then healed the friend and the first soldier, the one being channeled soon died of the disease.
I think that is such a cool story because to me it says why regret who you are and what you've done. It's kind of arguing with reality, which is really how I see God, anyway, in a lot of sense.
Well, another long winded reply. I wish you luck on your journey. It's no fun to be freakin' out all of the time. But it will probably make for some pretty funny stories later on, when you look back on this phase! At least, here's hoping that's the case.
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| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 09:51:36
Hematite,
You said you see a therapist once a month. Do you delve into childhood issues with him/her? Or is it more discussion of today's issues? |
| johnaccardi |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 23:04:43
I agree with you in that anxiety is a better distraction than physical symptoms. It really engulfs our lives. I would say the best to deal with this is to let the worrying and anxiety happen, don't focus to much on how to stop it. I know it's so easily said but not thinking about how to get rid of it might help. |
| hematite |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:33:14
Yes, I have anxiety. I wouldn't have spent years in bed in pain, visiting one doctor after another, neuro stimulator implant trial, pain pills, p.t.'s etc., if I didn't have it and needed a cover for that and other emotions I couldn't deal with. But again, I am trusting that as I go deeper into the total dependence on the universe thing, that I don't need to resolve that either. It seems to really be working. I'm not alone with it because other people listen when I need them and I trust that I will be changed, but not on my time table. What is wrong with being anxious, anyway? I find that if my day is kind of structured, a lot of it goes away. But I do spend a few hours each day in anxiety. I didn't know it was a bad thing, though. I have a part time job and I love to cook. Those help a lot. Also, reaching out to others helps, too. Again, 1) complete dependence 2) helping others 3)prayer and meditation with daily inventory and I am just really finding a lot of problems are being resolved on their own. So I kind of think that's going to get resolved, too. But if it doesn't, then there's probably a good reason for that. I'm not even interested in knowing how or when.
It's hard - and I'm not going to blame it on our culture, because I think it's part of every human on the planet, but it's hard to trust absolutely when I was taught I needed to figure everything out by myself. But that didn't work for me. I'm beginning to trust more as I see the results of keeping the focus on the universe and others. If it's on me, I think the anxiety is way up. But I'm not even in charge of if I'm focused on myself or not. (So I don't find one more thing to beat myself up over). I'm who I am naturally. I think finally that is enough. (I actually think of myself quite a lot. Which is probably appropriate.)
I think it's interesting to see that for years I used the phrase "what is my part of the foot work" to edge God out. Today, I really don't value my part of the solution. Solutions come to me. Sarno's book came to me. A new job came to me. New friendships, etc. More money because I was living on the edge a year ago and today I have a little money in the bank. I would go into detail about all the changes that have happened since the whole process started, but I'll just say it's been slightly amazing. There's like 5 or so significant areas of my life that have improved, not counting the pain.
So re: anxiety, I kind of think it's not my problem to solve today. And this is only because after years of trying everything else, this is the only way that worked for me.
Other people may have other good ways that worked for them that are very different. But this is the one thing that worked for me after dozens of failed attempts at other experiments.
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| sborthwick |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 07:18:48
Thank you so much Hematitie and armchair for both of your great perspectives. Hematite - do you suffer from anxiety now after your pain going away? I love how you are just letting go of controlling everything. I really struggle with that.
I can tell you that right now I am completely obssessed with my anxiety. I worry about it all the time and keep trying to adjust my medication I am taking for it. The problem is that the antidepressants - I take very mild doses - are putting alot of weight on me and that is making me more frustrated and depressed! I don't want to take them at all but they take the edge off a little.
I have Lucinda Bassett's program of attacking anxiety that I am trying to do in addition to Sarno's psychology. In my mind, I guess I have become some kind of "anxiety project" - hmm...this distraction is really working. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 17:48:14
I do not think that thinking of ourselves and our emotions is incorrectly self-centered. We need to feel what we feel, be who we are, and process our crap before we can move on.
The goal of Sarno's program and the goal of therapy are not sitting, dwelling, obsessing. Sarno recommends (as does Schechter) that about 30-60 minutes a day be spent on the work. The advice to think psychological the rest of the time does not mean dwelling. It means, if you are thinking about the physical (or affective symptoms like depression and anxiety), switch briefly to thinking about the emotions. The purpose is to break the ability of the distraction to distract you, and not get caught in the thoughts, not for you to spend half an hour dwelling on stuff every time you get pain or get anxious.
But at least if you do then you are spending the time thinking about stuff that is important to you emotionally instead of meaningless worrying about distracting symptoms.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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