| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LitaM |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 14:26:57
Hi Everyone,
I have posted here months ago about my own back pain. I am now feeling great. My husband has two herniated disks and the physio guy he sees keeps on telling him that his back shifts and this causes the pain. He has had on going pain with his back for over 10 years. I have all of Sarno's books and a few of the other doctors books on TMS. My question, what do you do when the person ( in my case my husband) thinks that the entire idea of TMS is flakey. He is so set on the structural aspects, he is very mechanically inclined. He wants to now go to a specialist, I said that the next step is surgery. He is so stubborn, it makes me feel so angry and frustrated. Why won't he even try? How do you live with someone who has chronic on and off back pain and they just won't try. It creates a lot of tension in our relationship. Most people look as though you have just grown two heads the minute you mention mind body disorders. Well any suggestions would be of help. Thanks for letting me vent. Best of luck to the other sufferers.
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| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 18:45:53
Hi LitaM,
I am a perfectionist, very logical, professionally trained engineer, and have always had a passion for science. I had LBP for 30 years, and all that time I was utterly convinced there was something physically causing my pain.
I WAS WRONG !!!
Like so many, I had been brainwashed by the medical/industrial complex. The DX was faulty, I believed the docs, because I believed and trusted that they were backed by science.
THEY WERE NOT BACKED BY SCIENCE !!! THE DX WAS INCORRECT.
The docs are not evil. All is not known about the human body. The docs are just ignorant of all the facts, many facts that have yet to be PROVEN using the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
Eventually, the scientific method WILL prove Dr. Sarno's work as it applies to those who have the personally problem that manifests into TMS. 300 years from now TMS will be well understood and TMS pain will be only in the history books along with leeches for bloodletting and amputation to treat a broken arm.
So, that's likley why your husband dismisses TMS, since it is not yet mainstream and have yet to be PROVEN.
However, there is some very good proof. MY BACK PAIN IS GONE !!!
Take care, -Stryder |
| Penny |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 17:07:21
Hi Lita, Congrats on your success. Each of us have our own ways of validating or denying our pain. I'm sorry your hubby won't give it a try.
18 months ago I told my dad about TMS theory, even parted with my book and loaned it to my mother. (They both have many chronic pain problems.) Told them this was the secret to my getting better. Told them lots and lots of things about it. They didn't read it, told me "their pain was real" insinuating that mine was not. Funny thing, this all came full circle last week when my mother told me that dad was reading this book called Mind Body Prescription by this Sarno doctor and Dad really thought I should read it b/c it would help me and my fibro. (Which has been gone for months now.) I still can't stop laughing at the irony. THEY NEVER HEAR ME!!!!!!!!
I love my parents very much and have been able to find a new less pain-inducing way to relate to them and protect myself. Their not listening to me, or giving me any credibility is a PRIME example of the source of my TMS. Perhaps your husband doesn't believe a lot of other things you believe in?! Perhaps he doesn't believe the depth of your pain? I don't know, but for me those that I wanted to convince the most of my reasoning for TMS were actually the largest contributors to my TMS.
Personally, my own husband doesn't understand nor really believe in TMS, not for my lack of sharing, encouraging, explaining. He gets lots of TMS sx that he says is "REAL" not TMS with enrages me. My TMS is not anyone else's cross to bear but my own. Take care of YOU and perhaps you can try ignoring his pain. Perhaps his pain is a source of jealousy for your getting better? Unfortunatly until people are really ready to carry on with their lives living thru their pain, until they are ready to do the TMS work, they aren't ready to get better.
Hang in there and I wish you continued success!
>|< Penny
"Feeling will get you closer to the truth of who you are than thinking."
~ Eckhart Tolle
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 05:10:13
This is a hot topic for me.
I have 2 friends who clearly have TMS to the extreme. It has taken over their lives.
They each were amazed to see what happened to me. And they each reached out to me to help them. So I told them, got them to read everything, brought them to this forum. They were both very excited. But after initially beginning the process, they both dropped out. What someone said above about preferring suffering pain over the facing of certain inner emotions.
What has been hard for me is that they have continued to reach out to me for help with their debilitating symptoms. I continue to tell them what is working for me, and how it's working - i.e. quickly with some symptoms, more slowly with others.
One of them said to me recently that he was glad Sarno is working so well for me, and then went on to bemoan how his symptoms have taken away his life.
The other one has been regressed by her symptoms into someone who needs people to drive her and take care of her.
I can see myself in both of them. For 30 years I lived in a similar space. People were ALWAYS trying to tell me I was creating my illness, and asking me what is was "really about," and I alternated between trying to figure it out psychologically, and getting defensive as I wasn't acknowledged in my pain and suffering, and seeking a "real" diagnosis so I could justify what was going on and not feel so ashamed.
I've recently seen how the illness was a protective measure for me, to stop my sister and later others from envying me for being "too much." I caught myself actually using my recent flu with my sister to stop her attacking me. I wrote about this below on a thread called Cinderella and Her Sisters.
So I get that the whole syndrome of secondary benefits, which Sarno explains ISN'T the same as TMS (also discussed on distraction thread above) is another of the factors in many people's illness.
But I still get incredibly frustrated with my 2 friends (internally). In fact, I think I am TMSing about it.
Hee hee
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| LitaM |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 17:17:42
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the book selection. He did watch the video, not a 100% believer though. He has never seen a "back specialist", so like most of you, most people feel the need to explore that avenue before trying Sarno's method. Sad, but that is human nature. He has only seen a GP. So I will keep the books around and hope for the best. Thanks for the support everyone.
LitaM |
| qso |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 16:28:12
LitaM - by the way I would recommend you read Candace Pert's book yourself first before mentioning it to your husband. Then decide whether he would be receptive. If not you could try the pitch that it (the book) is useful as part of his education on the ongoing feminine struggle (in this case in science)..presuming he is receptive to that! Something may click while he is reading the book. |
| electraglideman |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 16:14:41
You can lead a horse to water but, well, you know the rest. Some people use their aches and pains as a crutch. |
| qso |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 14:00:12
Sorry, there was a type - her name is Candace Pert |
| qso |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 13:52:36
Indeed this is a huge problem and very sad. Sarno says that when he screens people on the phone only 10-20% are receptive. I didn't tell my wife until I got results and recovered completely -she was completely flabberghasted, having seen me live through it and directly affect her life, and is now a total believer. Others will say "oh it must have just gone away by itself". Which is actually more far-fetched and ridiculous than believing the truth but I don't bother arguing with people any more.
HOWEVER - here is something to try with your husband. Look - there has to be a physiolgical basis to the psyhcosomatic network because in the end emotions have to mediated by some biochemical pathyway. Get your husband to read "Molecules of Emotion" by Candance Pert (she is mentioned in Sarno's latest book). This woman is remarkable - she is a scientist and in the 1970s was the first to discover the optiate receptors in the brain in an effort to cure herion addicts. She describes her subsequent research at NIH where she discovered the actual molecules that mediate all kinds of emotions and she has found receptors on all kinds of cells in the body *and matching receptors in the brain*, even on immune system cells, for these molecules (which she herself is baffled by). She does not mention TMS a single time but you have to realize that this is all pretty much talking about the same pheonomenon and would be a good place to start if your husband wants hard science. Needless to say her research has been ridiculed by the mainstream profession and drug companies because their billion dollar industry is hihgly threatened. She also discovered a way to tackle AIDS using the body's own biochemicals (and therefore no toxic side effects) but couldn't get funding to take it further because the FDA took unusual action to make sure she couldn't take her remedy to market in order to protect the drug companies who went with the highly toxic AZT as it promised higher profits and wasn't confused by "emotional molecules". Even aside from all of this, it is a fascinating story of how a woman in a male-dominated profession was essentially persecuted, exploited, and ridiculed, but she won many important battles and continues to this day trying to develop her AIDS cure and educating people about the critical role of the brain and emotions in human illness and disease. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 11:40:41
Someone mentined Sarno to me when I'd had RSI for a few months, and I didn't pay any attention until I was desperate, three years later, and it still took six months after I bought the book to get serious.
Unfortunately you can't really make anyone believe in Sarno, and the more you try, after a certain point, the less likely they are to be willing in the long run. (Have you ever been told so many times that you JUST HAVE to see a certain movie that you are not sure you want to see, to the point where you felt like you never wanted to see it just because everyone insisted that you had to?)
I think ralph's suggestion is a good one. Ask him if he'll watch the 20/20 special with you. But I'd go further. Then promise that after that you'll stop bringing it up (and he won't bring it up either in order to disagree), because you both know each other's views.
It might help if you do a kind of mental trick with yourself where you remind yourself that at this point you truly don't know if his pain is structural or psychogenic. You have an opinion and so does he. But neither of you really knows.
I don't have much advice about how to deal with the fact that he will keep having pain. I think you will have to come to terms with that yourself, and decide how you want to handle his pains and treatments, how to be kind without making yourself crazy by accommodating to him all the time.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| vikki |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 09:43:00
I don't think you can convince anyone of the TMS diagosis. It's something they have to decide on their own. Your husband has all the information -- it's up to him to decide when he's sick of the standard approach. None of my friends and family believe in TMS. They all know it worked for me, and they are happy for me. However, they do not apply it in their own lives. When they complain of pain, and talk about the new physical therapist they're going to see, I don't even mention TMS. I just nod and listen sympathetically. If they want more information about TMS, they can ask. But until then, I keep my mouth shut. That approach is a lot less stressful for me and for them. You can't change their mind, but you can decide to stop stressing about it. |
| LitaM |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 06:37:33
Thanks Ralph,
I'm sorry to hear about your marriage. We have been married almost 18 years. He isn't 100% against it, he is just like most other people out there. Thanks again for the link. |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 15:55:39
Some suggestions:
Have him watch the 20/20 segment on Dr. Sarno. It's very persuasive that the TMS diagnosis works. Everyone gets healed, except those who can't accept TMS. They keep their pain. Even John Stossel, super skeptic, was healed by Dr. Sarno, "With one lecture, Sarno cured me of 20 years of back pain."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6660313127569317147
Have him read some of the hundreds of reviews of Healing Back Pain on Amazon.com They are very positive.
But I couldn't persuade my wife, so maybe you just have to wait until he gets tired of his pain. Fred Amir said he couldn't accept the diagnosis at first, only tried it when he was desperate.
Ralph
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| ralphyde |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 15:44:36
I really feel for you as this hits really close to home for me. It was my wife who had chronic back pain for 2 1/2 years before we discovered Dr. Sarno and TMS. She was a typical TMS sufferer, with lower back pain with sciatica, but couldn't accept that diagnosis, wouldn't even see a TMS qualified doctor.
I tried my best to persuade her, but she split with me over this after seven wonderful years together. She had a spinal fusion operation instead, which has not really helped her, as now she has different pains, and has given up the activities that she loved.
We were divorced this year after 3 1/2 more years of separation and pain, and I'm still supporting her. I think that to her, it was scarier to face the repressed emotions from childhood, than to have the pain. She had a childhood with a divorce, an alcoholic mother, and two stepfathers she hated. She had to leave that family at 15.
Now she's getting the kind of sympathy and care from her mother that she couldn't get as a child when she was so neglected. I believe her mom is now an enabler for her TMS.
I'm very sad about this, but learned too late that one can't help someone who doesn't really want to be helped. I tried my best to save her from her pain, but she didn't want to be saved, so felt pushed away. I hope you have better luck with your husband.
Ralph |
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