| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| broken wings |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 22:01:25
Dear Forum Members,
Having read read "Mindbody Connection" and checked out a number of internet sources (including lurking on this forum), I wanted to share my story and ask a couple questions.
My brief history (which Sarno basically nails early on in his book): male, 31 years old, moderately stressed out attorney, low back pain off and on for the past 3 years or so, MRI showed L5-S1 herniation, DDD throughout, and (oddly enough) T-11 disc bulge involving the spinal cord, with no abnormal signal (never any pain in that area, it's all in the 'low' low back). Doc reccomended pt, muscle relaxers and advil. My LBP has been getting progressively worse, and after the MRI got really bad.
My pain is strictly limited to the low back, and is generally ok if i take it easy. It was exacerbated by vigorous exercise involving the lower back, exercise involving twisting the low back (i.e. swingiging a golf club, throwing a punch), lifting, leaning over, or simply sitting at my desk for long periods.
After reading Mindbody connection, things have changed a bit. Now i only have pain during and after exercise directly involving the lower back (i.e. core exercies like situps, excerise ball stuff, grappling, tackle football, etc.). Also, the pain goes away quicker. Previously after a tough workout i could be out of the gym for a week, whereas now i just need a day to recover, and with no nsaids or muscle relaxers. However, i am still nowhere near pain free, and my athletic perfromance i feel is severely restricted by TMS.
I think i am at a plateau now: i truly, deeply, and absolutely believe that my pain is not caused by structural abnormality: however, I am still working on that deep, innate acceptance that my pain is caused by emotional issues in the subconscious, although consciously i recognize and respect the idea. I wrack my brain multiple times per day to try to get out what may be causing my rage and pain. I've come up with a lot of possibilities, but have not had a eureka! moment.
When struggling in my current situation, i am haunted by the issue of TMS tender points: i have never had any tender points anywhere. My pain is strictly limited to the low back, and seems purely internal.
I would very much appreciate any advice or commentary from folks who have had success in uncovering sources of rage w/o psychotherapy, as well as anyone who has been cured of TMS and has not had the tender points. Thanks!
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| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mamaboulet |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:15:37
p.s.
Doubt is utterly human. I'm not sure 100% belief in ANYTHING is even possible. |
| mamaboulet |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:12:20
Some thoughts from a nerd. TMS is not a religion, requiring belief. It is a common but treatable condition that generally responds well to a diligently followed treatment plan. The treatment plan goes against programmed behavior and thinking patterns, and is thus often uncomfortable, non-intuitive, and usually uneven in progress.
Is there good evidence that emotions can affect the body? Of course there is, from many sources, not just Sarno. Sarno and others also lay out a good case for TMS/AOS actually existing and being a fairly common human condition rather than some "illness." Heck, maybe the prevalence of TMS indicates an evolutionary step that will eventually produce humans who have a more integrated mindbody. At the very least, TMS forces us to begin an inner journey that can't help but have an interesting destination, with plenty of scenery along the way.
Anyway, if you are here because Sarno and others provided enough evidence for you to accept the existence of TMS, and the TMS profiles resonate enough for you to entertain the possibility (that's really good enough) that you have TMS, then simply beginning the treatment and observing the results just seems like a logical progression. And so much of the treatment is good for you on a basic common sense level that again it seems like a logical step. |
| mcone |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:53:31
I also think that ACL's take on this is wise.
Some of Dr. Sarno's books refer to a "screening" process to exclude from the treatment program those who couldn't believe that thier pain is psychosomatic. It is not entirely clear what the threshhold level of belief is (and there seems to be variations in how this is described), but the notion that you can't be helped unless you can immediately achieve 100% belief can very discouraging. Harboring some doubt about the TMS diagnosis is one thing - but harboring doubt about one's own prospect of ever benefiting from TMS treatment - because of introspective recognition of one's own doubt aggravates the matter further.
For a number of weeks, I struggled with doubt (and I still do, but it is changing) - yet I've repeatedly read histories of people who struggled with the same types of doubts - only to eventually get past them and recover.
Perhaps mk and acl are saying the same thing. Although 100% belief is the state required to acheive full resolution of symptoms, 100% commitment at the beginning (even if 100% belief isn't present) will eventually lead to 100% belief.
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| mamaboulet |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:02:49
I'm with ACL on this one. I have trouble with the whole concept of belief. Belief involves faith rather than evidence. I'm into evidence. Sarno has enough evidence for knowledge and commitment rather than just belief. How about you TRUST Sarno's evidence and have BELIEF in YOURSELF.
Just a thought.
One of the things I notice around here is how word choice and phrasing play a role in how we feel. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 00:09:27
MK, it's my own opinion. I found that I was not able to reach 100% belief until I had seen evidence for myself. Getting evidence required commitment -- the commitment to act as if I believed, at least for some long enough period to have a meaningful experience. I would say that I certainly believed in the diagnosis' plausibility and thought it likely it applied to me, at that point. But I was certainly not 100% sure.
I have seen many forum members have the same experience. They continue to doubt until they simply commit to the work and then they experience success and improve. It is all too possible to turn the doubts and fear over and over and never take the leap. Taking the leap, acting out your actual and potential belief, changes your attitude (because you conquer the fear) and gives reinforcement.
It may not be so for everyone but I believe it is so for many, enough to warrant my sig. :-)
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| mk6283 |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 21:03:57
ACL, where did you get your sign-off quote from? I would argue to the contrary, i.e. it's not 100% committment to TMS that is required, but rather 100% belief in the diagnosis. I know that in my own experience, my symptoms did not disappear until I was able to completely reject the possibility of a physical cause and to wholeheartedly believe that my symptoms were definitely due to TMS. Prior to that point, no matter how committed I was to TMS or how much work I put into it, I found that the slightest bit of doubt was all that it took for the pain to persist. Just curious to know the source and motivation behind your quote.
Best,
MK |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 20:47:28
Here is a portion of an article from the New York Times, about how science is learning that the subconscious brain is "more active, purposeful and independent than previously known." The article is mainly about how things that we're not even noticing on a conscious level can trigger our subconscious brain to make us behave in certain ways, but I think it shows how our subconscious can push us in directions that we not only aren't aware of on a conscious level, but wouldn't particularly choose if we were aware. To me this information seems to lend weight to the concept of the subconscious mind creating symptoms to carry out its own purposes even though the symptoms and the purpose seem most illogical to our conscious brain. I think as brain science advances we'll eventually see more and more evidence of the mind-body connection that Sarno describes.
The excerpt: More fundamentally, the new studies reveal a subconscious brain that is far more active, purposeful and independent than previously known. Goals, whether to eat, mate or devour an iced latte, are like neural software programs that can only be run one at a time, and the unconscious is perfectly capable of running the program it chooses.
The give and take between these unconscious choices and our rational, conscious aims can help explain some of the more mystifying realities of behavior, like how we can be generous one moment and petty the next, or act rudely at a dinner party when convinced we are emanating charm.
“When it comes to our behavior from moment to moment, the big question is, ‘What to do next?’ ” said John A. Bargh, a professor of psychology at Yale and a co-author, with Lawrence Williams, of the coffee study, which was presented at a recent psychology conference. “Well, we’re finding that we have these unconscious behavioral guidance systems that are continually furnishing suggestions through the day about what to do next, and the brain is considering and often acting on those, all before conscious awareness.”
Dr. Bargh added: “Sometimes those goals are in line with our conscious intentions and purposes, and sometimes they’re not.”
The article can be found at this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/health/psychology/31subl.html?_r=1&em&ex=1186113600&en=8624aae3fea5a2f0&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 20:13:35
Panic attacks are a STRONG sign that you're in the TMS category. Anxiety is an equivalent, and panic attacks are anxiety on steroids. I've found that my anxiety has diminished hugely since doing TMS work and emotional work.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| broken wings |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 18:13:40
Thank you both for the helpful responses. It is good to know that i am not the only one out there w/o the tender points. I believe Sarno says 99% of TMS sufferers have them, which is why i am concerned. My natural skepticisim (as well as my tricky subconscious mind) is constantly looking to disprove the TMS diagnosis.
The more i think about it, I think my problem is that i am still thinking in a "traditional medicine" way: it was easy for me to accept that the abnormality is not causing the pain, because (in spite of itself) traditional medicine has proved this (i.e. published studies of 70% or so of people free of backpain have these same abnormalities).
The hard part for me now is to accept that subconscious rage is causing the pain. I think this part is more difficult for me to accept because there is no hard lab science to support it, only Sarno's success stories. However, I am open to the idea: especially as I saw the self-destructive power of my own mind a while back when i had a few panic attacks, and really thought i was having a heart attack. I am going to use this knowledge, along with Sarno's success, to build my confidence in the diagnosis. I hope that my confidence will continue to grow as i (hopefully) continue to improve. I also plan to implemnt some writing, thanks for the suggestions: i have been airing my stressors orally, on the commute to work heretofor. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 01:12:58
Welcome, Broken wings--
While I had good success with some symptoms after reading Divided Mind and finding this forum, other symptoms have been more of a challenge, and I am completely convinced that some have lingered on because there are still issues that I'm somewhat aware of on an intellectual level, yet I haven't been totally committed to getting into them on an emotional level (which seems to be something that some of us need to do and others don't).
But, I'm slowly peeling away the layers of the issues (and continuing to make progress with my symptoms, even though it's slower than I'd like) and something I've found extremely helpful has been some of the books that others here have recommended--books that are not specifically about TMS, but are about getting into the emotions on a deeper level. The two that I'd say have been most useful to me have been Drama of the Gifted Child (it's not about intellectually gifted children; initially I didn't think the book would apply, but it does) and Homecoming: Championing and Reclaiming Your Inner Child. Don't be put off by the inner child concept; I used to think a person could simply choose not to allow their mind and current emotions and reactions to be affected by past experiences until I started reading about brain function and discovered that the inner child is a good metaphor for how the brain routes information on the old pathways that are developed when we're young. I also found Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway to be applicable in some respects, because I do have issues with control and uncertainty.
In the process of learning about myself, I've also made several realizations about family members that have been helpful in putting all of the pieces of the emotional puzzle together. I'm gradually coming to terms with some of the issues I really didn't want to face head on, so I feel sure it's only a matter of time until my remaining symptoms are gone.
As for the question of having tender points, my impression from what I've read here in the past year is that not everyone has tender points. I didn't have them in the beginning, I've had some off and on, but not like what Dr. Sarno's book described. I was given a diagnosis of Fibromyalgia by a couple of my local doctors, which is supposedly always based on having certain tender points, even though I didn't have them in most of the locations that are said to be required for that diagnosis. I did have most of the other Fibro symptoms. So I would recommend that you not be too concerned about the question of tender points. Since you've seen some progress with your symptoms, I would take that as a good indication that your pain is TMS related.
It sounds like your on the right track and will conquer the symptoms in time. I wish you the best. |
| stanfr |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 22:44:23
Sounds to me like classic TMS. Incidentally, i was a 31 yr old moderately stressed attorney (well, stressed enough that i was on my way to borderline alcoholism  ) when i first developed severe lower back pain, neck pain, sciatica and carpal tunnel. I cured all of that in a couple months, then put the nail in the coffin by quitting my job  . Sounds like your situation isn't quite as severe. I would not be at all concerned about 'tender points'--i think i only recently heard of that term but i don't believe i have any of that per se. Your reaction to your newfound knowlege indicates 'textbook' TMS to me. Some here might disagree, but i would suggest 'challenging' your symptoms as much as possible: specifically go out of your way to do things that have previously caused a pain reaction. If you do it with conviction that it's not going to physically harm you, i think you will notice your body react quite quickly. I suspect you will see the symptom either switch or change in character--this is very common. Don't expect a Eureka moment--it may never come. But do start journaling if you haven't already--free form would be a good idea. Start putting those thoughts down on paper! Good luck  |
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