| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 08:45:47
In his lecture Dr. Sarno talks about "Western values and the values of capitalism" as being instrumental in contributing to the onset of TMS. He stated that in completely different societies, where these values do not exist, TMS is not an issue.
What do board members think those values are of which Dr. Sarno alludes to?
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Penny |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 20:58:47
I've got one for you guys ... how about the collective belief that pain is BAD and has no purpose?! (TMS theory challenges this to say that pain is actually serving a higher purpose, that when we consciously embrace, we can actually learn from our pain.) Culturally, we believe that us human beings should control pain and suffering.
Whenever we have a headache we should take an aspirin--take control and stop the pain. Or how about when our kids have a slight fever we should give something to lower it instead of letting the fever burn off the germs that are making them sick in the first place. (I said slight fever.)
There is no acceptable place for pain or illness in our culture. I believe this stems from our collective fear of dying, which stems from belief that we should all live forever. Science should do whatever it can to extend our physical lives and preserve our youth.
We should have control over pain because it is bad. Whether it's labor pain or back pain. We believe that we should exert control over it, manage it, or try to STOP it instead of learning from it. Few of us accept it and trust that it will pass, or that pain does indeed have a higher purpose perhaps unknown to us.
Pain--like bliss--is transient.
The biggest change in my BS (belief system) is that I don't believe all the above anymore. I have a completely different relationship with pain. It doesn't mean when TMS strikes that I feel pain less physically, it just means that I don't have as much fear over it and I try not to let the pain make decisions for me.
Penny |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 19:14:51
Lidge said
quote:
Oh Stanfr really touched on something here. I think for me too there is the knowledge that TMS (issues, whatever) stood in the way of me
realizing my potential and now its too late. I know they say its never too late- but....
But too late for what - being "successful", in whose eyes? - being rich, well, we all know that money doesn't bring happiness - too late for happiness? Surely that's what we really want, happiness for ourselves and our loved ones, and it's never too late for that is it?
There does seeom to be a mid life crisis type thing when you feel life has passed you by and it's too late to achieve things but we know from the media it's never too late really - 80 year olds making parachute jumps for example. It is probably more a state of mind that needs to be addressed but I don't have the answer to how you do that, though overcoming your TMS and regaining good health should help greatly towards it.
Anne |
| stanfr |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 14:53:03
lidge, makes perfect sense to me. One of my childhood dreams was the 'rock n' roll star' living that crazy lifestyle. Now, i have zero desire to live in hotels, lose sleep, and have no reliable friends or relationships. But, it enrages me (i suspect it does) that i wouldn't have the physical or emotional stamina to do it if i chose to. I almost wonder if i should try something insane like that (hit the road) just to challenge this perceived barrier. But that seems too much like a middle-age crises to me--something to avoid since it's irrational. |
| lidge |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:51:23
Shawn-
I have the formal education (though not Ivy League) but lack that inner core of "confidence" etc that one gets in childhood. Call it self esteem it doesn't really matter.
Yes there could be displaced anger but it is a fact of life in the corporate world that one needs more than just smarts to succeed. The real world is a very different one than many of us were taught and that is enraging. You know, every little boy (or girl) can be president type of thing.
That being said, having seen it I have no desire to go back to that world, just wish that I "could" if I wanted to - make sense? |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:37:46
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Now, I have anger that even if I chose to I feel too awful to really compete anymore.
There may be so low self esteem issues at work here as you may feel that you were placed at a disadvantage in life and cannot possibly compete with those who have more formal education than yourself. You may be consciously angry at these people, but it could also be displaced anger and the real source of your rage could run a lot deeper- it reaches the very core of who you are and how you see yourself as a person. Not being acknowledged or overlooked really hurts, especially if it reminds you of the hurt you were subjected to as a child.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:31:13
Great insight stanfr, let's add that to the list:
8) Perfectionism- you had a vision of how you would see yourself as you got older. You set up a standard for yourself, but now it appears - as you get along in years- that you were unsuccessful in achieving that goal. This has generated internal rage, but it is so subtle that it is hard to detect until you really think about it.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:27:09
Ok skizzik, allow me to add to the list above based upon what you have written:
4)delayed gratification your whole life without complaining- classic repression of rage.
5) Now mid-thirties 3 kids and wife, all you money goes to the family and not to what you really want. This is inwardly enraging.
6)Embarrassment (nice wife and kids) about complaining so you repress these feeling. Not socially acceptable to complain as it would make you appear as a selfish and mean person and you don't see yourself as being such. Coming to the conclusion that you are inwardly selfish threatens how you see yourself and others will think ill of you so the feelings are repressed.
7) Daily reminded of what you do not have as you look at what others have. Again, that angers you yet it cannot be expressed as you would look vain and materialistic.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| lidge |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 13:25:51
Oh Stanfr really touched on something here. I think for me too there is the knowledge that TMS (issues, whatever) stood in the way of me
realizing my potential and now its too late. I know they say its never too late- but....
For many of us whose childhood was not great, we may not have had the
emotional support, encouragment, security, financial help that alot of others did.
I know Sarno talks in his book about having younger workers be your boss etc. I remember when I was working feeling utter revulsion at some of the people hired. They were hired because they went to Ivy League schools or had connections and were often promoted far beyond where they should have because of their resume. A feeling like they didn't pay their dues. Of course I was just jealous that I didn't have that.
I don't know if anyone remembers the old movie "Room At the Top" but
that was an example of it. Or the Creedence song- "Fortunate son".
Guess anger at not being the fortunate one.
One of the reasons I left the corporate world was the disgust with this type of thing.
Now, I have anger that even if I chose to I feel too awful to really compete anymore.
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| stanfr |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 12:48:51
Shawn, i can relate to with what lidge said, but for me i think it ties in strongly with #3 being very clear, not vague. It's part of my perfectionist side. When i was a kid, i envisioned myself at age 30 being already 'on top of the world'--the very best at whatever i chose to do. When that never happened (not so coincidentally because TMS stood in the way of my goals!) my inner perfectionist side became enraged. That's at least one possible way i can analyze it. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 12:27:11
I've lived w/ delayed gratification my whole life, and was known not to be a complainer. I put aside my wants w/ the intention someday everything will settle down and I'll treat myself to the goodlife.
Well, I realize that now in my mid-thirties 3kids and wife later, I never did buy that car, or go on a weekend trip to vegas w/ just the guys. Instead all my money goes to the family. I feel guilty buying new work jeans.
Being a westerner, wah, wah, what am I complaining about w/ a beautiful healthy family, right?
Hence my subconcious doing me a favor and repressing that INNER CHILD ANGER that has turned into a boiling kettle pot, and gives me REAL PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS to deny me seeing this rage.
And as I get older, I'm in an internal rage because I still wanna take care of my wants, but the older I get, the more my Inner Parent wants me to save more, start a college fund for the kids...etc...there's always something "smart" I can do w/ the money, and yet I'm enraged over my neighbors 60in HDTV, and his new fast car.
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 12:20:58
You have said a lot to think about Lidge. Here are the three main issues I gleaned from your insightful posting which are of concern to those who are growing older:
1) physical decline in health and looks and the general feeling that live will get worse instead of better
2) you realize that time is no longer on your side, ie being closer to death than to birth
3) vague feeling that you could have made more of your life, realized more of your potential, or just plain enjoyed life more.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| lidge |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 11:58:31
Shawn-
Aside from the obvious physical decline in health and looks, there
are lots of things I can point to if I think about it.
When we are young, there is always tomorrow. If our lives are not what we want, there is always the thought that you can make changes, that in time things will get better. But when you start to hit those birthdays that seemed so far off at one time, you realize that time is no longer on your side (so to speak).
I did not think of this as a prime issue for me in my current problems, but if I really think about it, I'm mad that I'm no longer on the young side. I have felt that it was primarily because I feel
so physically awful but I'm sure there is that element too of not wanting to grow up- after all what comes after growing up? You get old(if you're lucky?) and then you die. I think being closer to death than to birth means there is not much time to get it "right"-
there is no more putting it off. But not exactly sure what the 'it" is.
Maybe its just this vague feeling that you could have made more of your life, realized more of your potential, or just plain enjoyed life more. Just a feeling that you wish there were more tomorrows than yesterdays and that life was likely to get better rather than worse.
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 10:05:11
What, in the opinion of TMS forum members here, is so enraging about getting older? Try to be specific and use your own experience as an example.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| stanfr |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 17:06:29
Another interesting thread. I didn't think much of it before now, but now that i do, i beleive my latest severe relapse began shortly before turning 41 last year. May have some significance.
I personally wonder if our current technology is on its way to create a TMS mega-monster, because i think our evolutionary-designed bodies/psyche is unable to keep pace with the technology. I remember occasionally running into people suffering from TMS 10 yrs ago, but now it seem like everyone i meet has some "mysterious" ailment they are dealing with. This is another reason for the huge rise of Supplements etc. The other day i saw a young couple texting each other from the opposite sides of a restaurant booth--and this is common 'normal' behavior now!! Mass communication is turning us into a global community with less and less personal contact each year--this is going to seriously mess with the human psychology. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 09:33:20
1989!!!!!!!!! I was out of high school 7 years by then. Yikes!!!
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 09:31:29
Ok Logan
I am currently taking a first year course at University and I am 43 years old.......Yes, I feel ancient as I have probably taken even more courses than the prof!!!!!
Shawn
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| AnthonEE |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:55:34
quote:
Originally posted by Logan
... It's a big factor in my TMS so thanks for the reminder to stay conscious of it.
And then to drive the TMS nail in a little deeper, store owners always feel the need to post this little sticker at their front counter that says "No tobacco products will be sold to anybody not born on or before today's date of the year: 1989"
... my goodness! |
| Logan |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:34:31
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Go take a class at a university and you will feel your age, at least that is my experience.
Try teaching at a university!
I look younger than my age (36), still get carded etc., but constantly feel as if I am an ancient hag standing in the front a room filled with 19 year olds.
The other day I told my freshman english class they'd have to "do some Nancy Drew-ing," that is some detective work as part of a research paper. They had no idea who Nancy Drew was... : )
It gets to me more than I care to admit, Shawn. It's a big factor in my TMS so thanks for the reminder to stay conscious of it. |
| AnthonEE |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:09:14
You are completely right, and the pressure to perform is just the tip of the iceberg. As I've started to spend more time thinking about all this stuff, it's a little frightening how much pressure I've put on myself during my life. And on the one hand it's the reason I've been able to climb into a relatively secure comfortable place in life. But it also has it's costs...
So to come full circle, this is our western value system. Work hard and succeed. But then when you get sick it takes you by surprise. And then you learn maybe it's not the correct way to live. Being a hyper type-A successful driven personality has it's benefits and it's costs.
And I hope this (TMS) is the reason that I am having the problems that I'm having, and not because I'm getting older and having bad luck with my genes or something of that sort. TMS has a much better prognosis.
I've taken to heart much of what I've learned on this forum, I read two of the Sarno books, and journaling as much as I am able. I've been at it for just over a month now, and I'm seeing a little progress. Nothing earth shaking, but I did do some running last weekend, and I've been in the gym the last couple weeks doing some elliptical trainer and stretching. Not putting any real pressure on myself, but just trying to be (and feel) healthy. Hopefully the progress will continue over time  Thanks to all for the positive comments and advice. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/17/2007 : 07:31:36
Hmmm AnthonEEE
Biking 30 miles, then coming home for a 4 mile run, or lifting weights. I would call that putting a lot of pressure on oneself. I think runners and other intense athletes get TMS not because of what they put their body through, but because the place so much pressure on themselves to perform. They set impossibly high standards and then become inwardly angry when they don't reach them.
I myself am somewhat of a couch potato.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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