| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 08:57:00
I am wondering if there really is any point in going back to Sarno's psychologist - after all, it is expensive and maybe the body never stops the distraction mechanism of TMS. My pain that came back briefly has gone away and the familiar anxiety has returned - albeit it is not as bad as before. Today I am tired and jetlagged - as did not sleep well - oh yes, I guess insomnia has replaced back pain again!!
Does this cycle ever stop? What exactly does Sarno's psychologist really do. Can she really teach my brain to switch off this behaviour?? I must admit, it would be nice to not have acne on my face and a rash on my back. That is a very good distraction because I am vain and hate it.
I do love knowing that all of this is minor and caused by the brain. Maybe, I have to do this so I do not eventually get Cancer or something really serious.
Any thoughts anyone?? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 11:19:50
Thanks! I like to stay around and discuss the further steps to full healing, emotional work that goes beyond TMS work. I hope it's helpful to others to see that this is another path to better health and better life. Your contributions are always enlightening for me, as well. My therapy has progressed pretty well, I had a really good session last week where I felt like I kind of cleaned out an emotional dusty closet by doing inner child work for a past experience. I'm definitely seeing the benefit of working with an outside person, because they can ask questions and set up perspectives that I'm not able to see, as well as give help on techniques to use. There's less trial and error because of that too.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:35:02
Arm- Sounds like you are getting a lot out of your therapy. Good for you! Appreciate your continuing contribution to this forum. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:33:08
quote:
Sounds like your boss is triggering your repressed feelings. Try and see how your boss's interaction with you is similar to an interaction with a close family member. There is probably some similarity there that is resonating and moving your feelings upward.
I was having some issues at work and my therapist asked me whether it felt familiar. It turned out that the issues were echoing experiences from my childhood, mostly to do with perfectionism/unrealistic expectations. So this can be a useful avenue to explore. It definitely makes the feelings more intense in ways that can seem weird because they don't make sense in the situation. One thing my therapist pointed out is that although it might feel similar, we do have many more options now than we did as children as far as dealing with it, so that's a hopeful thing.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| DitaH |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 03:42:12
quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Andrew,
You have TMS in the exact same locations as me, with the exception of the testicles..:)
RIght now i have it in neck, back and wrists all at the same time..I am under considerable stress and the pain makes everything worse..It's a vicious cycle..You are blessed to still have your parents..I lost mine 17 years ago and miss them terribly..Not to say it's not stressful dealing w/ them, I understand..I am a musician and artist as well..Hope you feel better soon!
~Karen
You're right Karen, I am lucky to have my parents around and I do appreciate them. I've written them a long email expalinng how I feel and telling them not to worry and that I am happy and that's what's most important to me and my wife and so I've done my best, it's now up to them to accept my decision or not. It's hard, but I'm not gonig to change my life to suit their values, I'm living my values and doing what I really love doing... wheres the harm in that!
Cheers
Andrew |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 12:17:39
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Once we know that the symptoms are a distraction, they paradoxically begin serving explicitly as signals.
I agree with this. It is our interpretation and action taken from the TMS symptom that is significant and can push us to a more healthy wholesome way of being. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 12:11:24
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I agree, Miehnesor - I know for sure that a great deal of this comes from my job and I need to make a change. Most of my anxiety comes from doing my position and working for my boss. It is looking like I may need to do a different job and move.
Sounds like your boss is triggering your repressed feelings. Try and see how your boss's interaction with you is similar to an interaction with a close family member. There is probably some similarity there that is resonating and moving your feelings upward.
Also you may just really dislike the line of work you are in and need to make a change. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 11:14:58
Andrew,
You have TMS in the exact same locations as me, with the exception of the testicles..:)
RIght now i have it in neck, back and wrists all at the same time..I am under considerable stress and the pain makes everything worse..It's a vicious cycle..You are blessed to still have your parents..I lost mine 17 years ago and miss them terribly..Not to say it's not stressful dealing w/ them, I understand..I am a musician and artist as well..Hope you feel better soon!
~Karen |
| DitaH |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 04:29:30
I've found that whilst I have been able to almost totally get rid of the TMS I've had in my lower back, neck, knee and wrist, and understand that that pain was psychologicaly caused, taking away my fear of it, that it definitely does come back from time to time (eg when I am stressed). I am then reminded all the more about it's psychological nature. It always seems to try new sneaky ways of manifesting, like at the moment for about a week I've had some testicular pain, my wife suggested it is TMS and I am now coming round to the idea... when I focus on the fact that it's psychological, it goes away. I've just had a stressy phone call with my parents where they whine at me about me not working for a while (I'm having a break from work to focus on my music), obviously they want to be sure I'm alright but it annoys me that, even though I'm 34 they still try to project their values on me ... my wife has suggested we all go to family therapy... would probably do us a world of good!
Best Wishes
Andrew |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 23:43:05
Hi Suz,
This is a great thread! I can relate to alot of your struggles, especially regarding forgiveness and guilt..As Catholics we have a built in guilt complex..I see an 85 yr old priest for therapy on and off for years..He is a real trained therapist and I feel like I am seeing a true wise man..He loves everyone, has no judgements about other religions and is all about expressing feelings and not repressing them..I just cannot see him as often as i need because he is in such demand..and it's free!!
I connected w/ him by attending his bereavement group at church, also very helpful..I cannot agree more about the power of prayer! There are even double blind scientific studies proving it's effectiveness..Let you faith heal you! I need to do the same as well as applying Dr. S's theories, of course..and listening to the wonderful advice of the people here! I'm am battling wrist, neck and insomnia TMS issues as we speak..The good news, i am not freaking out about it anymore..
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 15:09:44
I agree, Miehnesor - I know for sure that a great deal of this comes from my job and I need to make a change. Most of my anxiety comes from doing my position and working for my boss. It is looking like I may need to do a different job and move. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 12:16:40
It is an interesting question if the symptoms are trying to send a message beyond that of distraction. I believe that both intentions -- of distraction and of message-sending -- can operate, even before we know about the distraction idea, but certainly after.
The symptoms I had (RSI) forced me to slow down and take a look at what I was doing and my life. Having symptoms can limit what people do and make them decide on alternate paths, possibly getting them out of a bad situation. For me, seeing that I was willing to push myself into apparent physical damage for the goal of academic success really changed how I approach the things I do with my life. And ultimately, the whole odyssey drove me to desperation such that I was willing to try Sarno, and that opened up a whole new world of examining my emotional situation.
Once we know that the symptoms are a distraction, they paradoxically begin serving explicitly as signals. It's possible that the unconscious/inner child grasps this change and begins or continues to use them as such as well.
This is all rather theoretical, but certainly to someone actively aware of TMS, symptoms have to be considered as signals, whether or not that's their intent. :-)
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 11:20:34
Suz- To some folks, me included, TMS can be thought of as a signal that needs to be listened to as opposed to ignored. Actually when you look back you will see that the excruciating symptoms you had on your engagement actually were in an important way a benefit to you, despite the severity of the pain. Those symptoms were your body telling you that you were doing something that was ultimately wrong for you in the long run. I like to think of it as the child trying to get the adults attention.
I hope you don't try and mask the symptoms with drugs. My personal bias is that it is just another way to cover up important messages that your body, or your inner child, is trying to tell you. |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 08:12:31
Thanks, Miehnesor,
I completely agree with you that there is absolutely no point in seeing the therapist if I cannot express my feelings - that needs to be done before I get anywhere near forgiving my parents.
As far as my job causing the TMS - I count it as one of those big life stressors that contributes to the pool of repressed rage already in my unconscious - it is really up there and is something I can change. I believe that it will help when I switch my positions within the firm. Is it the cause of the repressed rage - no - my parents and the divorce when I was young is and I know that. I had to be a parent to my mother and missed out on being a child - this caused tremendous rage inside of me and I know I have that towards my mom.
I had a very good grounding from Sarno's therapist I went to see 2 years ago and it may be that I will go back to her.
However, I will tell you, that my Faith has done some extraordinary things too - the power of prayer is actually quite unbelievable and does some very very deep healing. It is the technique (combined with therapy) I used to get over the awful breakup with my boyfriend 6 months ago. It has done marvels. It is this therapist who helped facilitate this. His approach is a little different to Sarno but also has value in it - after all, there is not just one way to get well!!
I think time will tell.
He has suggested that I go on a very very low dose of Zoloft to help with the anxiety. I am going to try it. I wonder where my brain will go next - as I laugh when I get back pain - so it only sticks around for a day or so and when the anxiety is no longer there - the little TMS demon will have to find something new I guess. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 17:01:12
Suz- I have to chime in here with my 2 cents.
To resolve the conflict with your mom and get to your feelings you need a therapist that will validate the feelings that you know reside inside yourself. For him to tell you to forgive your mom BEFORE you plow through the legitimate feelings that you really have is shortchanging yourself. This prevents the feelings from coming and ultimately for you to reach the land of forgiveness that I know you want. Also it may keep the TMS wolves nipping at your heels. Also I don't see how he can tell you that the TMS is caused by your job as evidence of the pain and anxiety that surrounded your family visit. Personally I think he is dead wrong but that's just my impression.
I agree with Armchair and Art and I think you need to be on guard for trying to please this therapist.
When in therapy your feelings take top priority- over spouses, parents, therapists whomever! |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 08:35:37
Thanks Art and Armchair - I know exactly what you mean. Forgiveness can only come after experiencing the emotions.
Naturally it will not work if I continue to feel guilt when talking to this man. I am definitely going to mention this to him in my next session - this is my perfectionist and goodist side coming out that wants to appear great in front of others - certainly not effective with a therapist!! I need to be free to say and feel whatever I want. I am sure this man does not judge me. I am going to stay with him a little while longer and if I feel no progress, will go back to Sarno's therapist. I have a sneaky feeling that I may be wasting my time. Sarno was very firm and told me to stop messing around and get back to Dr. May. The reason I am with this guy is because of the spiritual component - I should read Brady's book as this part is important to me. It may work or it may not help. Time will tell. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 18:26:02
Suz, glad I can help. You've definitely got it, just see the distraction as TMS and kind of "whatever" it.
It sounds like your therapist is a good one and insightful. It does seem a little concerning that you are worried about appearing not to be a good Catholic in front of him. You are there to be able to talk honestly about your feelings. Maybe you should consider bringing this concern up to him. He should not be judging you, and hopefully he is not. I don't know much about religion, but I feel like we have to be able to own and experience our own feelings, or we cannot process them and make them a part of our life and/or our spiritual development path. To have the regular human feelings like dislike, jealousy, etc. doesn't make one a bad Catholic (or bad anything), just human. It's what you do with them that matters, either emotionally or spiritually.
Also the focus on forgiveness raises the same concerns for me as it does for art. Forgiveness can only come in its own time, after emotions have been experienced and acknowledged. Focusing too much on forgiveness itself can interfere with the process.
Ultimately, do what feels right to you.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| art |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 16:14:09
quote:
He said that the key to healing was in forgiving the people who have done this to you. He thinks that much of my TMS pain is a result of my job - anger towards my boss. i never thought about this and I am going to write about it tonight
I'm far from an expert on these matters, but forgiveness can be tricky...I've found it to be not an all or nothing thing, and something, the feeling of having forgiven that is, that waxes and wanes..
Especially if the person remains in your life, this can drive you nuts. You forgive a parent for years of being critical, or neglectful, then wham, he or she does something that brings back all the bad feelings...
The attempt to forgive, if premature or not sincerely felt, can cause in my experience increased resentment and anger, which is the very last thing we want...
And then there are those things which really aren't forgivable, which might not be a very spiritual position to take, but there you have it.
I'm not knocking forgiveness of course, just speaking in general terms about my own difficulties and confusion around the subject... |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 13:29:34
Armchair,
So so helpful - thank you for that fabulous suggestion to stop focusing so much on these distractions - wow - they are really working for me as distractions! I am going to focus on recognizing them as TMS and stop thinking about them. After all - the Fear of having them perpetuates the cycle. I think I should start journalling again and that would really help.
I am working with a psychiatrist who is very spiritual based right now and will see how it goes. Sarno is convinced that I need to go back to Dr. May but I really like this guy and he ties in well with my beliefs. We discussed my mother today and my boss and my anger towards them - I did feel a bit guilty expressing how hurt and how much I dislike them - because I know that goes against my Catholic Faith so I will have to see if this will work for me. I did not want to sound mean in front of him because he is a devout Catholic. AFter all, I don't want to continue to repress these emotions. I told him about Sarno and he agreed that all the physical symptoms were a result of built up terrible hurt and anger. He said that the key to healing was in forgiving the people who have done this to you. He thinks that much of my TMS pain is a result of my job - anger towards my boss. i never thought about this and I am going to write about it tonight.
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 12:52:48
It may be that TMS will never go totally away, but I think we can make major progress and changes with both TMS and our overall life by changing how we relate to (understand, acknowledge, work with, FEEL) our emotions. That is what therapy is for. Sometimes I do wonder why I go, but then I will have a session where I begin to really see and understand something about the way I relate to myself and others. If you undertake work with a therapist and don't have those sorts of sessions, where you get to something not just intellectually but more deeply, then look for another, because that therapist is not helping you.
Also, I think you have some basic TMS work to do as far as ignoring the distractions. Anxiety and skin issues and insomnia are tough ones to ignore, but you need to stop letting them have such a hold on you, so that they matter so much. What matters is your own real emotions, core emotions, not the ones created by the distractions. When it happens, try to just see it, acknowledge it as TMS, and step outside it. When it doesn't matter, it may not happen anymore, even before you make the long-term changes.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 10:45:55
Because repressed feelings constantly strive to reach consciousness and they are susceptable to provocation in our daily lives, I think it is hard for us to reach 100% cured. But that doesn't mean we can't make significant and steady progress with effort. |
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