| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kojo |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 05:13:06
Hello everyone,
I read about TMS and bought one of the book that describe it some months ago. For me it did not help anything, and I feel kind of fooled...
So before many other girls like me spend money on such a book, I was wondering whether anyone can point me towards some scientific proof of this method? I mean, it is not so strange that there are so many success stories; stress is considered as a large contribution to all sorts of pains, and reducing stress sometimes is enough. However, the whole store around the stress might be not completely right nevertheless. What about testings for placebo effect? Any of that?
Thanks,
Kojo |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 07/19/2007 : 13:38:17
Shawn, I don't know why you recommend this video. The guy is still in the physical mode. He mentions Dr. Sarno, but doesn't accept the theory that can defeat TMS.
Ralph |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 07/19/2007 : 06:32:39
Watch this Kojo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_n2rs6lTx4
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 07/19/2007 : 03:10:54
quote:
(Kojo) I feel kind of fooled…
It sounds like you’re feeling angry because you think Dr Sarno’s books are a load of lies and you’d like to be able to trust that you can read a book and know that it is telling the truth.
Dr Sarno really has cured people by his method. I haven’t met any of his patients personally, but I believe it because I’ve cured myself through reading his book and have met other people who have, too.
I wouldn’t get too hung up on the “scientific” thing. A cure could be “proved scientifically” – but it still wouldn’t work for 100% of people, so if you bought a cure and it didn’t work for you, you’d be no better off.
What’s more important than the “scientific” label is what works for YOU – and the only way you can find that out is by trying it out for yourself. Most of us suffering from chronic pain try out several things before finding the one which works for us.
It would be great if the first thing we tried was the thing which worked. That’s not the case. But as long as we get there in the end, that’s the important thing.
If you’ve read Dr Sarno’s book you probably got the impression you should get better just by reading the book a couple of times. That’s certainly the impression I got and because I didn’t get better straight away I decided it wasn’t working for me.
It was only when I met someone a year later who had got better through reading his book that I decided to give it another try. This time I persevered longer and eventually got there. If you click on my profile you can read my story of how I got better.
Hilary N |
| alexis |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 16:16:21
quote:
Originally posted by Stryder
$14.00 for "the book" about the same price as a really good lunch out, and is less than a tank of gas for your car. Thousands of people benefit. Everybody wins!
While I agree these particular books are probably worth the money for most who buy them, that's only the case because for us this is the *right* book. But for every condition, from backs to RSI, there are hundreds out there. And no one can buy them all.
How does a newcomer know if this is the right book for them before buying? How do they discern it from the 100s or others that would, if all purchased, be thousands of dollars? And say the person does buy the book. And the book doesn't work for the individual, and continues not to work. I would then say that the money, for that person, is, indeed, "wasted".
My take on Sarno is that by the time your interested you've been sick or in pain a while. You don't need the books this very second. You may feel desperate, but you still know there are a lot of options out there, and a lot of potential costs.
So, why choose to read Sarno in the first place out of the vast array of choices?
1) Aside from the *potential* cost of a book (see #3) the doctors in this medical area aren't usually going to try to sell you anything else. There aren't big long programs you need to attend once a week for years. There are no gimmicky appliances or pills. This costs you less to try than just about anything, and isn't going to cost you much once you get going (unless you are part of the minority who need psychoanalys).
2) Due to #1, I would put a little more faith at least in the motivation of the physicians. (You are new in this scenario, and at least trying to rule out the con artists.)
3) If you're in the US (the country most represted by board members) most of the books are available at most reasonably sized libraries. If not, you can obtain them through inter-library loan. This means no cost. If you are suffering from any serious long-term condition and head to the bookstore before the library, you may have bigger issues than your medical situation -- like an inability to handle money.
4) Probably most important in your decision is that what you have read online, or in your scanning of library materials, has resonated with you. You should be able to get this much research in for before you start. The descriptions of the TMS personality are out there. So are the listings for the latest books and what is different between them. If it doesn't resonate with you at all at that point, probably don't even bother buying or checking out a book.
5) You have read enough about Sarno's practice to find the results compelling, if not yet, for you, proof.
I'm not going to get into details on the scientific proof issue, other than to say I know where a new person is coming from, and that I disagree that the theories are not "scientifically" provable. Science is not generally defined soley as what happens in a lab, or there would be no such thing as astronomy or social science. Telling people TMS is somehow beyond science is going to lose a whole lot of audience. Like anything else, there's evidence; you can wish for more, but basically you take it or leave it.
So Kojo, I get where you're coming from and I'm sorry the book didn't work for you. If the book you read was pre Mindbody Prescription (as I'm guessing by your focus on "stress") I would try for either that or Divided Mind -- if you think there is any chance at all it might resonate with you. But, on the other hand, you may not have a mindbody syndrome at all. Or you may not be ready to face it. We just don't know.
Good luck with your recovery whatever route you choose. If you already bought the book and are trying to get rid of it I recommend posting on Amazon...or donating to a library or charity.
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| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 14:23:34
Maybe 14 of us can all get together and send her a buck.  |
| HelenB |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 14:22:33
You've been kind of quiet since you threw out this question to the board, Cujo. Er, I mean Kojo.
What gives? H2 identifying you as a plant scare you off? |
| Stryder |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 22:10:58
$14.00 for "the book" about the same price as a really good lunch out, and is less than a tank of gas for your car. Thousands of people benefit. Everybody wins!
What country are you from? -Stryder |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 14:53:57
Kojo, If you're sincerely looking to be convinced that Dr. Sarno's mindbody treatment works, I suggest you watch the 20/20 video, which is quite convincing.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6660313127569317147
Or listen to this recent interview (April, 2007)
http://podcast.wor710.com/wor/384249.mp3
Or read some of the many customer reviews of his books on Amazon.com written by people who cured themselves just by reading the books.
The prerequisite to healing is being willing to believe that your pain might be emotionally or psychologically caused. If you can't accept that (the TMS diagnosis), then you probably won't get well. It's as simple as that. If you can, then you're on your way to recovery by adjusting your attitude and beating the distraction strategy.
Ralph
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| stanfr |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 12:53:28
Hey Kojo; im a scientist and major league skeptic. 'TMS' is one of a very few "alternative" health methods that i buy into. You won't find scientific proof. It either resonates with you personally or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you've come to the wrong place. End o' story. |
| sensei adam rostocki |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 09:31:36
Amen
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 09:09:14
Kojo, I would almost think you are a plant.
Two things about your post seem questionable. The fact that you think you "wasted" money on a book is really surprising.
People who get better often speak of the thousands of dollars wasted on Doctors, neurologists, MRI's, Rheumalogists, Physical Therapy, etc, but nobody biches about a $14.00 book. That seems almost insincere.
Secondly, you said you "felt fooled", as if it were the notion of the author to fool you. The fact that you didn't feel that the book was there to try to relieve people of their pain is interesting to me.
Also, no mention of your pain, or how long you've been suffering.
OK, now I'm sure you're a plant 
|
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 08:55:40
Hey Kojo, don't mind Dave's tone too much -- he is always right to the point and he's right that you're barking up the wrong tree here. TMS would be hard to study in a lab -- if you really understand what it is, you can easily see why -- and it has not been done. The evidence is the percent of cured patients. If the cure rate does not at least intrigue you, then we can't really help.
If you need more evidence, I recommend experimental evidence: try it and see if it works for you. You can't just read the book and expect things to work if you don't give the theory a serious attempt at understanding and follow up with the mental work. I also had no results the first time I read the book and it took being in a desperate situation for me to get serious. But I'm pain-free now and it only took a short time after getting serious (literally one day) to see significant results. It might not happen that way for you, but it is possible.
You do need to read the book again if you think "stress" is what's up here. Give it another try and see. And don't worry about other people spending money on the book. In fact, don't worry about other people's pain journey, period, because they have theirs and you have yours. Plus, it costs far less than any other known treatment for chronic pain. If you want to save people from doing something that doesn't work, I recommend researching surgery. There's no good scientific evidence that it works.
The very fact that you are so concerned about other people suggests that you are some kind of TMS goodist, by the way.
Forget controlled studies and give it a shot.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Dave |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 08:22:31
quote:
Originally posted by kojo
...I was wondering whether anyone can point me towards some scientific proof of this method?
If you must have "scientific proof" then you are probably a member of the majority of the population that simply cannot benefit from the TMS diagnosis.
Dr. Sarno has ample clinical proof of his theory. Over ten thousand patients have been cured during his 30+ years of practicing medicine.
If you think "reducing stress" is the key to the method then I'm afraid you really didn't read the book very carefully.
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 06:55:39
Yeah Kojo, I'll just place my emotions under this microscope here and get back to you. Not everything is subject to scietific measurements. How's 11,000 patients full recovered from years of dibilitating pain sound to you? Dr Sarno discusses in some detail about the placebo effect and why his methods cannot be accused of being one. He also talks about the pitfalls of applying the "scientific method" on this type of work. Finally, the mainstream medical community uses many treatment modalities with regards to the types of symptoms Dr Sarno discucces with not a shred of evidence to their efficacy. Yes, sometimes the pain goes away with these treatments, but they either come back later or show up somewhere else on the body. Again, Dr. Sarno discusses this in great length is all of his books.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
| mikescott_98 |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 06:18:25
quote:
I read about TMS and bought one of the book that describe it some months ago.
Kojo,
Which book did you read?
Dr. Sarno often says that the mainstream medical community says that "if it can't be shown in a lab, it can't be true." I think the closest thing to PROOF was that biopsies where preformed on muscle tissue of people with TMS and that the muscles were found to be MILDLY oxygen deprived.....this is how the mind cause pain by unconsciously restricting blood flow to the targeted area (common examples of emotions controlling blood flow is blushing and butterflies in the stomach).
Dr. Sarno mentions a book called the Molecules of Emotion in TDM. I have not read it, but there might be the scientific evidence you need in there.
I am not a statistician, but 80% cure rate of thousands of patients that have tried everything else is pretty convincing. He says that you can be cured by reading his books. I can vouch for this since I am an example!
There is also statistical proof that placees that have never heard of an epidemic do not suffer from it (The Norway whiplash epidemic is sited in TDM).
If you have spent time and money going to a doctor for a TMS ailment. The price and time required to read The Divided Mindor The Mindybody Prescription seems like a no brainier. So people have found that reading it a second time is what is required for it to sink in. |
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