| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 05:23:53
Hello,
I've been plaqued lately with returning symptoms. I seem to be in control most of the time, and have had long periods with no pain whatsoever. This has not been the case for the past 2 weeks.
I've been reading sarno's latest book, and doing daily journalling. Eventually the symptoms subside, but they always seem to come back now. I honestly don't know what else there is left to do journalling about, and almost done with the book as well =/. The pain is simply not staying away, i'm really at a loss here.
I need some advice, thanks in advance.
Mike |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 07:07:06
I was nervous of therapy to begin with as well, but I'm finding it very helpful.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 04:35:00
Well, i think you are doing whatever you can bcr. Maybe your fears of not gaining any improvement, is what is holding any progress whatsoever back for you. In any case best of luck to you.
Shawn, I've thought about seeing a therapist, just to talk really. It might help me in the long run, i'm just a bit scared to make that step to actually go see one. As my family is a rather old fashioned, i'm afraid of what they would think if i did go to see one...
Granted it would be nice to actually talk about a few things with a professional. I could probably use it... there could be a few things i didn't fully work through... |
| bcr |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 02:36:25
Hey MikeySama,
Thanks for your reply. It always helps to hear from someone who's had some success with this whole process.
I think that you're right that I have doubts. Unfortunately, I don't really know what I can do to fully extinguish them. On a cognitive/conscious level, I completely believe that typing is harmless. I reinforce this belief with self talk as much as I can. I have come to the conclusion that my doubts and skepticism are part of the defense mechanism that is keeping me from realizing the full depth of my repressed emotions. In other words, I (consciously) do not see my skepticism as being any more rational than faith in this situation.
Still, on some unconscious level I can't let go of them fully. And, of course, it ends up being a bit of a Catch-22. Progress would help me believe, but I need to believe for there to be progress.
In a way, I think any change would be helpful. I've heard how some people get worse before they get better, or get pain moving around. I just get more of the same.
The really frustrating part is that it is so obvious how effective this all is with respect to distraction. When my arms hurt, I think about them and not about my rage.
I'm also doing psychotherapy AND a support group related to my issue. It's not TMS specific therapy, but it is psychodynamic/attachment based and my therapist finds the theory to be compelling in a general sense.
Anyway, that's my story right now. Updates as events warrant. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 21:35:14
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySama
You can't get a psychotherapist in the netherlands that knows even the slightest about Dr Sarno's ideas.
You don't need one who knows anything about TMS. Any good Freudian psychologist practicing insight psychology will do. Just tell the therapist you are try to wade through some issues and need some direction. Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind" goes into some detail of the kind of questions a TMS therapist would delve into.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Do you have a pain-prone personality?
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 15:07:26
Mikey, that's great. Sounds like you are on track again.
If you do end up having consistent problems with recurrences in the long run, you could probably even see a therapist who doesn't know about TMS. The person I'm working with doesn't but she's very good anyway. Though I did have to set her straight on my hands being fine now and not to ask me about them because it's not a problem anymore. I probably will lend her the book eventually -- who knows, she might be interested and able to help people better because of it.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 14:07:54
You can't get a psychotherapist in the netherlands that knows even the slightest about Dr Sarno's ideas. There is not even a single TMS doctor here... but i'm doing better now, this thread has helped. It makes sense really this whole RSI thing has been the talk of the day in school for past month, it snuck back into my life.
It has been on my mind again ever since, then the pains came back with a vengeance, and all i did then was become obsessed with becoming painfree again. It makes sense... and now that i realise it i've been able to do whatever again... |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 12:19:11
MikeySama
In some cases, like yours, when they symptoms keep returning, Dr Sarno recommends pyschotherapy.
There may be something you are doing, but are unware of despite all of your mental work and journaling, that may be actually servring the perpetuation of the symptoms. Think about this a little deeper.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Do you have a pain-prone personality?
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:18:53
bcr i can only tell you of my experiences, it just so happens i also had RSI. It got pretty bad to the point where i didn't even brush my teeth effectively because i didn't think i could lift my arm up for 2 minutes to do the brushing...
I did go to doctors and had scans made, but they couldn't see anything on them. That's when i eventually found a site from someone named Rachel who described TMS and that the RSI went away.
In any case i ordered the mindbody prescription and started reading. When i was done with the book i still had pains, but i really believed in it.
Since the doctors basically said they couldn't find anything forgetting the structural diagnosis was a no-brainer for me. I told myself ok nothing is wrong with me, i sat behind my computer and i started doing journalling exercises for the first time.
Starting with my childhood i just started thinking and "typing" everything that came to mind. Then i started thinking if had any of the personality traits( perfectionism, goodism ) and typed about them. I just started typing and typing for a few hours. When i was done i realised i didn't have any pain. I guess you could say i simply ignored the pain and focussed entirely on what the book told me to focus on, and it did work. Aside from this moment with the returning symptoms ( on a sidenote i'm painfree again ) i've been doing quite well.
From reading your post bcr i think somewhere you may still have some doubts, and maybe fear that you could worsen your symptoms? But i think it's the most important step to realise that there is nothing wrong with you physically, and typing those e-mails will NOT harm you in any way.
If your symptoms do become worse however. It could mean that your unconscious mind is aware, that you are aware of what is going on, and tries even harder to get you to focus on the physical pains. I've read about that before, and i had that myself after a week of being painfree. It came back quite severely but i just continued to believe in the TMS diagnosis, and it went away again for a long time.
It might help to read the book again also. The first time i took my time with it, read about 30 pages or so each day and really let that sink in, and spend some time thinking about what i had read. ( I did not use the computer during this time either. I started with that after finishing the book. As i mentioned earlier i did the journaling exercises on the computer. I gradually added more hours to sitting behind the computer, until i was doing 8 hours a day again. )
I hope this helps you in some way, but just so you know. RSI can be beaten... but it takes time, that's why it helps to go about it in smaller steps, instead of taking a giant leap... this was my worse relapse yet, but as you can see i got past it again. And i learned something new again about TMS.
EDIT: Just something i remembered. RSI stands for Repetitive Strain Injury, which i'm sure you are aware of. Literally it means you strain yourself with doing too much of the same thing. At one point i just thought well i'm not even typing anymore, i'm just lying down on my bed, not doing a damn thing for months now. How could i still have this injury? It simply didn't make anymore sense to me, i guess that made it even more easier to accept TMS.
This whole RSI thing is a myth, so many people tell the worse stories about it, and you start believing in them. It's the perfect way to keep our minds focussed on the physical. Which is exactly what we do, we live it. Every small thing we do, we think. Could this be bad for me? Could this hurt me more? It's all BS... It will take time to reprogram all of that nonsense, and to fully devote ourselves to TMS. |
| bcr |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 13:43:30
I've been lurking on this board for quite some time now, but I think the time has come for me to jump into the discussion.
My TMS equivalent is RSI. Going on six years or so -- but really only willing to see it as an equivalent for maybe the last few months. The change has been spurred on by an awareness I have achieved with respect to a large reservoir of repressed anger (thanks to therapy and support-group work). In addition, I have very recently been able to witness how my symptoms serve as distraction. Very effective, I must say.
That said, I find that I am stuck at the "returning to normal activity" phase of the process. When my behavior is aligned with "structural diagnosis" -- i.e. I avoid typing -- my symptoms abate fairly substantially. When I begin to challenge the structural diagnosis -- even slightly (4 short type e-mails in three days) -- the symptoms return and linger. In fact, there is thus far no detectable change. It doesn't hurt worse than before (with equivalent aggravation). It doesn't hurt less. It doesn't hurt in different places.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to necessarily hurry this process along. I'm well aware of the calendar effect that gets discussed here from time to time. I'm more interested in whether or not the phenomenon I am describing is normal for someone on the right path or whether or not I need to make further foundational changes in my thinking. In other words, is the fact that I have noticed no changes (positive, negative, movement of pain, etc.) an indication that I need to do more work to fully accept the TMS diagnosis? Or should I accept the current state of "no change in symptoms" as a normal phase in the process? |
| electraglideman |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 12:48:05
Mikey when I've journaled until I can't think of anything else to journal about I write down a phrase like this over and over:
" My unconscious is in a blinding rage and I'm very aware of it".
I might write it down a hundred times maybe a thousand times and I try to think about every word as I write and nothing else.
Doing something repetitive like that helps me get it through my thick skull. |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 12:14:49
Thanks Tom and the others, this has been a very helpful thread to me. I've had the scrotal thingy for a while now too =/ it's well kinda gone now after realising it was another form of tms O_o;
Truly weird **** this TMS stuff...
Pericakralj, i think Tom is right in that it takes time. I think the trick is to try and stop worrying so much. You've read the material now, and you understand it? You can do journaling as it is another tool to focus on the psychological. But i think the moment you start worrying will the pain ever stop? It is just another means of empowering the tms gremlin as they call it here... |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:45:47
Hey Guys, how 'bout a little patience. It may have taken your mindbodies a long time to develop the thought patterns that have resulted in your TMS physical pain, perhaps your whole life and into the womb.
Search and read about the "calendar effect". This isn't the TMS silver bullet cure site, you go to Walgreens for that. You may get an immediate "ah-ha" cure after cracking your first TMS tome, and it may be as much a placbo effect as any other. But, for a sustained life-long, TMS resistance innoculation, you need to build-up your mental immunity.
Cheers,
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
| pericakralj |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:09:24
HY Mikey,I wanted to post today about same problem you have,and then i saw your post.I have similar problems as yours.I am new to TMS and i just started to use Sarno's methods and after 10 days i had major improvmnet,then after 5 days all returned.Again,after 10 days improvment,but after 3 days all returned once again.Thats very disturbing and i am getting worried will this ever stop?So i wanted to ask should we journal about same things more then once,and what to do when we are out of inspiration? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:06:52
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySama
On a side note... Tom you mentioned scrotal itching o.o; Are you messing around or is that really a tms equivalent?
MS,
You have come to some good conclusions about your TMS. Obsesseing about being pain-free is what the gremlin wants--that's the purpose of the pain to distract from the emotions and obsess about the physical pain. The cure for psychosomatic TMS pain is to shift the thoughts from the physcial to the emotional and become painful-emotion free.
In regards to scrotal itching, yes, it has come up as a TMS structural symptom site, here at the board. Anywhere polyneuropeptides, can travel in our bodies is a potential site. This is likely the origin of the age old issue--boxers or briefs?
The more the gremlin is able to create fear, debilitate, and embarrass, the better the distraction.
Cheers,
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
| stanfr |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 13:36:43
I agree with tom to a point, but in my case i have discovered my 'TMS' never went away, just changed symptoms, and all my understanding and acceptance of the principle seems to just drive my brain to create a new and more insidious form of the disorder. I really am convinced that something truly bad will be next (like cancer) if i don't deal with the underlying emotions, which is why ive started serious self-analysis along with therapy. Obviously there are degrees of involvement and you have to decide where in the spectrum you fall. I thought when i rid myself of sciatica ten+ years ago that i knew everything and had TMS beat. I was wrong! |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 11:38:44
quote:
I think i will stop trying so hard to become painfree, that seems to be the only angle here that i haven't covered. That i'm putting so much pressure on myself to becoming painfree again. In a way i made the pain a bit of an obssesion again, instead of going about it sarno style O.o;
Yep! Sounds just right. The most important thing is getting back to real life because you know the pain is nothing physical. I like Tom's post about the plaque too.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| MikeySama |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 10:03:52
Hehe... Didn't notice the type. I kinda typed this up quickly during class today =/
In any case thanks for your replies. I thought i had to get to the bottom of it, of what is truly bothering me or causing the rage. But i guess that's not really the point, and now that i think about it maybe the frustration of not really finding it caused even more pressure.
I think i will stop trying so hard to become painfree, that seems to be the only angle here that i haven't covered. That i'm putting so much pressure on myself to becoming painfree again. In a way i made the pain a bit of an obssesion again, instead of going about it sarno style O.o;
On a side note... Tom you mentioned scrotal itching o.o; Are you messing around or is that really a tms equivalent?
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:49:52
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySama
Hello,
I've been plaqued lately with returning symptoms. I seem to be in control most of the time, and have had long periods with no pain whatsoever. This has not been the case for the past 2 weeks.
I've been reading sarno's latest book, and doing daily journalling. Eventually the symptoms subside, but they always seem to come back now. I honestly don't know what else there is left to do journalling about, and almost done with the book as well =/. The pain is simply not staying away, i'm really at a loss here.
I need some advice, thanks in advance.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Your typo, that you have been plaqued by TMS symptoms may be more apropros than being plagued by TMS. The symptoms are more like the layer of plaque that builds up on our teeth needing a regular removal through prophylaxis.
I have found that going to the dental hygientst every three months has saved me a lot of money on fillings and pain in the long run, along with my Philips Sonic Care Elite toothbrush they recommended. I'm rather lazy about brushing late at night.
A cleaning runs almost $100 down in the Village now, but a filling is probably closer to $300. I don't know for sure, because it's been so long since I've needed one. At the most, all my dentist does is re-do an old filling, which is nearly painless. A crown is probably nearly a grand. I've found that quarterly cleanings have saved me a lot of money, and pain in the long run. I have the hygienist do the high-pressure water cleaning method.
You're probably wondering what this has to do with your TMS--and so am I--I think I just enjoyed your typo of plague and that plaque was more appropriate to our psyche's relationship to TMS.
I do see several misconceptions in your post though in regards to TMS.
One being that you or any of us are in control of our symptoms or our psyche's. If you accept the Good Doctor's theory of TMS based on Freudian psychological principles. We are never fully in charge-- we just think or pretend we are.
Our psyche's are composed of an id, an ego and a super-ego which are in constant conflict. When the repressed/suppressed rage over-flows our reservoir, it presents itself in psychosomatic TMS symptoms. This is for protection/distraction from ranting and raving; (I personally enjoy ranting and raving, and recommend it highly, but don't let anyone be driven away by it though, blame it on the gremlin).
So you may think you are in control but you're NOT. Your symptoms keep coming back because the gremlin is playing with you. The emotional TMS dynamic between your past, present and the future is making the symptoms come back. You may think you are in control one moment but the world is spinning and the gremlin is playing and you have to sleep sometime and voila: psychosomatic TMS symptoms ranging from back-pain, to depression to scrotal itching.
I feel you can journal 'til the cows come home, looking for that point in time that this all began. Maybe it all started when your parents forced you to eat Wheaties instead of Cocoa-Pops causing deep trauma to your young psyche. Dr. Sarno says we don't need to get to the root of all evil to shed our TMS symptoms--we just need to acknowledge the TMS process, accepting that our unconscious can create real but harmless psychosomatic pain.
When we feel pain and there is no logical cause for it, take a mental step back think about the rules of TMS engagement and watch it dissipate.
Good Luck!
tt
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
|
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:31:00
It's important to remember that as annoying as the pain is, you absolutely know what it is, and you have some control over it. Because you know that it is TMS and believe in the theory and the work, it's almost certain it will go away eventually. I would guess you are relapsing because
1) The pain clearly still has an emotional hold on you -- the distraction works. It's hard to get out of this mode, but try to let it be. Carolyn had some nice posts about establishing a gentle, curious attitude toward the pain, if you want to search for those.
2) There is something you haven't explored yet, but it hasn't occurred to you because it's unconscious. You'll probably have it bubble up eventually, so in the meantime, again, some gentle awareness will ensure you're ready if it happens.
Are you back to normal activity? If not, I recommend getting involved in some positive physical activity, to emphasize that you believe in your health and know you're fine and get your mind off the pain part and onto the plus side.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 06:50:01
It takes time Mike. Placing pressure on yourself to recover does not help and may actually prolong your suffering. Be patient and continue to do the work as outlined in Dr. Sarno's books. Dr Sarno says for those people whose pain does not go away pshychotherapy may be necessary.
Do not speak about or write about your symptoms as you merely feed them further by given them more attention than they deserve.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Do you have a pain-prone personality?
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp |
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