| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jshwartz |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 18:55:28
I'm a 22 year old male who has had back pain for two years. I just recently self-diagnosed myself with TMS, and I even started to feel better. I just got another MRI, a year after my first, at the request of my doctor, and it was found that I had a slight increase in the "disk protrusion" at L5-S1, and a new slight protrusion at L4-L5, as well as a new tear on the L5-S1. My doctor even brought up the idea of surgery. This has sort of shot my confidence in my TMS treatment, can anyone give me some advise?
Thanks so much,
Jake |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| skizzik |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 14:52:44
quote:
Originally posted by mizlorinj
[ I have to say when I read about people on this forum who are having ANOTHER MRI--my first thought is WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO YOURSELF!?!?!? No thanks.
Best wishes to you jschwartz.
-Lori[/font=Century Gothic][/purple]
If your'e referring to me, I hurt myself lifting weights and could'nt Sarno it away like I did 4yrs ago, even though I considered myself a TMS expert. My x-ray was normal, but the radiologist said that some stress fractures can only be seen on MRI. Sarno says to get checked out fully b4 seeing a TMS doc. I had to get it done unfortunately. |
| mizlorinj |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 09:19:42
Doctors will always try to blame the physical. That is how they're trained. My MRI (ordered BEFORE I knew about TMS and was incapacitated by back pain at the time) shows a LARGE herniation at, where else? L5 S1. I saw it. It's there. Of course doc was alarmed and gave me list of things to try and if all failed surgery. THAT scared me to death. I have NEVER had surgery and didn't want to start at 40. I think I had the nocebo effect--pain was even worse after visits to the doc who really put fear in me.
Took me 1.5 weeks after Sarno visit to be able to sit (it was a very happy day), and then was back to work a week later. Took longer to be able to bend to reach the floor with my fingertips again, but so what. (Orthopod would freak if she saw me not bending my knees!!)
I wrote my little hands off though--about everything I could think of. Spiral notebooks-full. If it came to my mind, I wrote about it. Angry, sad, afraid, etc.
Happy to report a few fellow workers think it was truly a miracle that I am pain-free, and have bought TDM to see for themselves!
Bottom line--I don't plan to ever have another MRI. It was torture and I don't really want to know what it shows when I know my mind has so much control over my body. I have to say when I read about people on this forum who are having ANOTHER MRI--my first thought is WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO YOURSELF!?!?!? No thanks.
Best wishes to you jschwartz.
-Lori |
| skizzik |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 04:49:00
you gotta friend here to wartz, coming from a 2nd timer. I don't know if you read my MRI thread. But I was 29 or so when I got my first MRI and freaked out. I found Sarno and it cleared up, first the anxiety of it went away, I was able to relax. Looking back, I think 3mos after Sarno I was 100% pain free. Maybe some twinges here and there for another month or two which I would journal or read away.
This second time I had/have way more anxiety because of the powerlifting I did all last year plagued my mind. Then my life trauma I went thru allowed the TMS gremlin to hop on board and attack my back again. I was fustrated because why can't I Sarno it away?
I think I'm coming around now. To my untrained eye my MRI's look similar enuff that my anxiety has gone down just yesterday after I picked it up. I'll be reading and journaling like crazy today, w/ less emphasis on the structural. I'm looking forward to the pain melting away again. |
| jshwartz |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 12:09:44
Thanks everyone, great advice. Trouble was I already had an MRI scheduled when i picked up Dr. Sarno's book. I was convinced that it was what I had and started to feel better, but I figured I'd get the MRI anyways... Just to make sure. Well I now realise what that really meant was that I had not truly given up that it was not a structural problem. Maybe I still have lingering fears that I'm crazy to think it is just psychological issues causing the back pain. It is amazing the psychological impact that stupid little piece of paper with the MRI results can have, it makes it sound like your entire body is falling apart. But everyone here has re-assured me that it is just TMS, so thanks again.
-jake |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 10:25:46
There's already some very good advice here. Here's some more, from Dr. Marc D. Sopher, whose book, To Be or Not To Be... Pain-Free, is very good:
"With the availability of CT and now MRI scanners, it is possible to obtain remarkable images of the body. That is the good news. The bad news is that many of these images will be reported as abnormal - one study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that greater than 60% of spine MRIs showed abnormalities, the same percentage in those without pain as with pain. Virtually every person over 20 who has a spine MRI will be told they have degenerative disc disease, disc herniation, degenerative changes, or some other abnormality. As these findings are present equally, no matter whether symptoms exist, it is Dr. Sarno's and my contention that these are incidental, rarely the cause for pain. Unfortunately, physicians are taught to find a physical cause for physical symptoms and thus tell their patients about their "back problem."
"Being told that you have a "problem" or "condition" can aid the "nocebo response." This is the opposite of the placebo response. With a placebo, belief in a worthless remedy can provide relief, almost always temporary, due to the desire to be well and faith in the value of the remedy. With a nocebo, symptoms will persist or intensify as a result of being informed, incorrectly, that a significant defect or problem is to blame. This is a critical part of conditioning - coming to believe that certain actions, circumstances, or aspects of the environment are the cause of symptoms, when in fact the cause lies in the mind."
Ralph
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 10:01:14
Great post 2scoops, X's 2!
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| 2scoops |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 09:33:46
Well, I was 25 when I had my first CT scan and MRI. Disc bulges, spondylolysis, disc disease, disc dessication. I was told I had the back of a 40 year old man. After all that ear and programming, I fond out abour Sarno. Then I purposely go back to Orth and ask him wh I'm gettig better after I've done no exercises, no therapy, no surgery, and well he didn't know. Then I mention my knee was weak, and then he goes, well bad backs can cause knee problems, so I lauged right then and there, too funny.
You have to understand, the medial community is just as programmed as the regular popultaion. They sat in school for 8 years listenin to this stuff, so that's what they believe. It takes time, but you got to reprogram your mind, and relaize, your more than just body parts, you have an emotional mind that is causing these symptoms. You have pressure in your life that is causing you tension, and it time to recognize these pressures. That's where thinking about your prefections, people pleasing, job, etc. comes into play.If you want a good psychological book to read, I cannot say enough about Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw. It is a good supplement to Sarno's books, and it is the reason I'm almost pain free. I've been playing basket for 2 hours a couple days a wekk, volleyball, and my ab lounge. I was also diving on the concrete, in the sand, etc. |
| kelvin |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 16:46:24
quote:
Originally posted by jshwartz
I'm a 22 year old male who has had back pain for two years. I just recently self-diagnosed myself with TMS, and I even started to feel better. I just got another MRI, a year after my first, at the request of my doctor, and it was found that I had a slight increase in the "disk protrusion" at L5-S1, and a new slight protrusion at L4-L5, as well as a new tear on the L5-S1. My doctor even brought up the idea of surgery. This has sort of shot my confidence in my TMS treatment, can anyone give me some advise?
Thanks so much,
Jake
Jake,
You might want to read this article about what those MRI reports really mean:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/chiropractic_health_care/104489/1
My favorite TMS files and links http://www.etex.net/kelving (may not work with FireFox browser) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 06:43:34
STOP WRITING ABOUT SYMPTOMS!!!!! WE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR LIFE. WRITING AND TALKING ABOUT SYMPTOMS IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE AND WILL ONLY PROLONG YOUR SUFFERING!!!!!!!!
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Do you have a pain-prone personality?
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/aboutBook/painProne.asp |
| salamander |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 22:57:56
Jake,
L5-S1 is the most degenerated spot on almost everybody over the age of 20. I had an MRI of my spine done when I was 19 and I showed up herniated disks at two locations, as well as spondylothesis (sp?), a rather nasty looking S curve in the vertebrae, which, according to the doctors is an "abnormality". I'm 41 now and I'm fine.
I know too many 70+ year olds that don't have back pain. My dad has no pain and his MRI, exrays are terrible. Athritis, stenosis, herniations....you name it.
If you look up one of my previous posts I expain how I discovered how Sarno was right....I involved coincidentally reviewing MRI's that I had that were several years apart. They basically looked the same, but when I had the first one, I had NO back pain. It did not take a rocket scientist to realize that "disk abonormalities" are a normal part of aging.
Listen closely......
Stop focusing on the physical! Don't concern yourself w/ disk protrusions. Your back is fine. This was the most difficult part for me was to "repudiate the structural". You must do this fully, or you won't get better. Period. Your back is fine. Resume full activity gradually.........
I kid you not, if you dwell on the physical you won't get better. Sad but true...you mind is doing this to you.
Push it.
Regards,
Doug
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| LadyBug |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 19:25:31
Yes Jake...I have some advice. Pick up that copy of Sarno's book and keep reading it. Do not agree to surgery. All of my MRIs said the same thing and I was convinced I needed surgery. So I had it and then recently I discovered Sarno. My back pain did not go away with surgery, PT, acupuncture, chiropractic, "pain mangagement", rheumotology, infusion therapy or voodoo. In fact I still have it and am convinced I will see my way out of this with Sarno. However you found your way to him, I believe it was a very good thing. BTW, I found my way here by waking up one morning with the thought of coming to the computer and googling "idiopathic back pain". There I found word of John Sarno and found this Forum. READ! Best of luck and don't be afraid.
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 19:21:57
Jake,
Watch this 15 minute video. Dr. Sarno addresses this very concern. He calls these changes, "normal abnormalities" which couldn't possibly be causing the pain.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6660313127569317147
Ralph
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