| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| bert |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 11:50:09
I know I now have TMS. I've read Sarno's books, and some others. I recently downloaded Sensei book from this site. Which really help explain what TMS is to me and how to release myself from it.
Now from what I get, it's the chase in trying to cure TMS that's the most important thing which gives pain release results and not the understanding of repressions of our inner child and the lifes emotional traumas. Would you say this is correct? If so, being that I honestly have little recall of alot of my child hood experiences from birth to say maybe 10 or 12, is it really nescessary to remember alot from back then. I do know how I felt when I felt emotional pain. Like being withdrawn for fear of being not accepted and not experiences hugs much as a child that I can recall. And my brothers being look at more energetically IMO than myself (which I did confront my mom about, she thinks I'm nuts. She said I was just always shy. I said I was shy for a reason). I remember a statement from one of my relatives, which was, "Our generation thinks you should Love em while there sleepinp". Which meant be strict but while they sleep adore them, I believed. Just terrible way of raising a child I think, still pisses me off to this day. I can understand it was that way for some, but still no excuse for me. I love my daughter and show her as much love awake as when sleeping. Always talk to her about life and what I experienced at her age that she may be dealing with at the moment. We usually laugh alot about it and share.
Back to the chasing thing. What do you'll think. I don't have much time during the day to go back and figure out all my feeling. Trying to keep up with working to pay the bill keeps me thinking in the moment. But I do spend as much time at night as I can. At least one hour on average per night of reading and/or writing for the past 2 months now.
The reason for my questions is this. I've had back problems and recent recurring knee problem since the 80's. The knee was sports related originally. Torn ligaments in a collision. The back first happened while loaded cabinets inside a work van and twisting while moving the cabinets in the van to fit. Now I believe the knee collision was a normal injury, but for lack of rehabing may never have strenthened 100%. Especially for the contruction work I do. Ladder work, lifting heavy material, repeative ongoing work for 24 years. I would reinjure it occasional, usually while playing basketball hard when younger. Now I'm just straining it walking up and down stairs. And I'm affraid to ignor it til it strenthens enough with ice and support and/or rest for a week to 2. I haven't injured it bad enough to disable me since I quit playing sports regularly though.
The back is a disabling recurring event and hurts every day. Worse in the mornings til I loosen it up with stretches and usually a long hot shower. Had a operation in 97. But so did I for the knee too. I no longer can pop out of bed and start working. Actually I can no longer do the work I used to do. I now have to be smart and let the younger guys do the heavier work loads.
But I believe both are do to TMS and mainly muscle tension from always having pain or the thought of a dibilitating injury putting me out of work again.
If it's really in the chase and keeping your mind in check about not letting the pain get the best of my day, by thinking about what is emotionally bothering me, how long would the chasing have to take place, if you know what I mean, before I start to get some significant releaf?
Didn't want this to be a long post but felt the need to explain a little detail.
bert |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 07:36:08
quote:
Originally posted by bert
I am curious how many here are pain free and what process seemed to do it for them mostly.
Forget about the time it takes to fully recover, as it varies with each person. There is no way to answer that question and, in fact, it is better to steer clear from the question at all as it will impede progress as I noted in my previous posting. The thing with TMS is that the more you want to the pain to go away the more it will persist.
Most of those who have fully recovered no longer visit this board on a regular basis except for a few goodists who hang on with a desire to help others. But you can look up "successtories" in the search engine to read about how many recovered from TMS.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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| Jim1999 |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 23:06:21
quote:
Originally posted by bert
...I honestly have little recall of alot of my child hood experiences from birth to say maybe 10 or 12, is it really nescessary to remember alot from back then.
...
The back is a disabling recurring event and hurts every day. Worse in the mornings til I loosen it up with stretches and usually a long hot shower. Had a operation in 97. But so did I for the knee too. I no longer can pop out of bed and start working.
Bert,
I'm not a psychologist, but I do have some hunches based on these two statements. It's strange to not have memories going back a bit longer than 10 or 12. Your lack of memories could indicate that the memories are being repressed to conceal something traumatic.
Also, the fact that your pain is the worst when you first get up could be an indication that your repressed emotions are trying to express themselves in your dreams. The pain could be a way of distracting you from your dreams. Of the TMS books I've read, "Freedom from Fibromyalgia" has the best discussion of how to use dreams as a way to access repressed emotions.
Jim
P.S. I am pain-free. My posting in this URL explains how I recovered: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1135&whichpage=1. I'm guessing that my comments to you above will be more helpful than what's in the URL.
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| bert |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 21:34:41
Just wanted to take time to take you all for replying. I have some work to do obviously. I am currious how many here are pain free and what process seemed to do it for them mostly. Could be better asked in a new topic. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 07:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by bert
[quote][i]As for being preoccupied with the physical aspects. Clue me in on how to ignore them...... I have to beat this fast.
Bert,
I was lying in bed this morning thinking about your question and here is my humble advice based upon my subjective experience and reading TMS books:
1) Stop talking and writing about pain. Don't write about it in your journal, don't discuss it with those around you, or on the message board. The more you write and talk about the pain, the more attention you are given to the physical which is exaclty what the pain wants you to do. In essence, by giving the pain this type of attention you are assuring its perpetuation. I never write or about discuss my symtoms anymore on this forum on in my journal. Note the people who have been on this forum for a long time never write about their symptoms except for very rare occasions. Write instead about something that angers you or causes you stress, other than your pain.
2) Think psychologically and not physically. There is currently taking place inside of you a competition for your conscious attention. Your brain wants yout to concentrate on the pain and you have to fight back by concentrating on the emotional issues which the pain is drawing your attention away from. This is a fierce battle and takes time and real effort. Read the psychology sections again in Dr. Sarno's book as to clues about what to look for in your introspection times.
3) Self talk is important. Tell yourself that you are 100% physically ok and that you know the real source of your pain. Dr. Sarno says this method is quite helpful for many of his patients.
4) Resume all normal physical activity. If you experience pain in the course of an activity just keep reminding yourself that it is your brain's way of keeping you involved in the pain and thinking about the physical. You cannot hurt yourself. If the pain is too intense then take a pain killer, but tell yourself that this is not a cure but only a temporary measure while you are doing the pyschological work.
5) Finally, as per your statement "I have to beat this fast," let me quote from Dr. Marc Sopher regarding what he calls "The Calendar Phenomenon" :
For reasons that are not entirely clear to both Dr. Sarno and
myself, there is great variability in the time required for symptom
resolution. This gets back to the notion of doubt. If someone states
they truly believe that TMS is the problem, that they have been doing
the mental homework and yet are distressed that their symptoms
persist, they may question whether they have TMS. This has the
elements of a catch-22. If you begin to doubt there is a psychological
cause, that there could be a physical cause, then the work is undone
and the brain’s strategy of creating a physical distraction will triumph.
This is part of what I refer to as The Calendar Phenomenon. By this
time, everyone may know of someone whose symptoms vanished
immediately after reading the book or shortly after seeing a physician
trained in TMS treatment. So, an expectation is created in their mind
that their symptoms should recede soon after incorporating this
philosophy. They look at the calendar and become upset as days and
weeks go by. This is where I tell people to look back at their
personalities. The calendar phenomenon is another manifestation of perfectionist tendencies – it is self-imposed pressure to succeed and
succeed quickly. If they can recognize this aspect of their personality and add it to their “list” of sources of stress, relief will be on the way. Fear, doubt, the calendar phenomenon and the failure to think accurately are examples of some of the internal obstacles to healing.
Several external obstacles bear mention.
#1 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you mention it to your physician,
he/she either dismisses it out of hand or nods indulgently, and advisesa traditional regimen including medication, physical therapy, etc.
#2 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you mention it to your friends, family
and/or co-workers, they look at you as if you have lost your mind.
They, too, may nod indulgently and then recommend a physician,
practitioner, medication, herb, etc.
#3 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you pick up a magazine and read an
article discussing symptoms like yours, there is no mention of TMS as
a possible cause. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a brief mention of Dr. Sarno’s work with TMS, but other quoted sources dismiss it out
of hand. As you trust the members of the media to do their homework
and provide accurate, complete information, you begin to wonder
whether TMS is for real.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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| sensei adam rostocki |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 18:01:16
Hi Bert, Ok, you made some points here that really need to be discussed:
First, you can't ignore the pain, nor should you. You have to ignore the physical diagnoses. That is a completely different thing all together. You can experience the pain, but must remember to remind yourself that it is being caused by your mind, not your body. There is no physical reason for your pain. Repeat this over and over. After a while, it will be easier to scoff at the pain rather than cower beneath it.
Ok, next. Yes, I was hospitalized by a horrific episode of pain right before I made my way towards a cure. It was a nightmare and I would not and could not go on with THAT kind of pain for long. I really know what you are going through. I think you get that from my book…
I can see a common personality trait in both of us. (I should say, many of us here…) You are obviously hugely fearful of the effect and threat the pain will have on you, your responsibilities and ability to earn. This is so common and a huge factor in my own pain. Use this to hone in on the underlying issues in your subconscious. I can’t discover them for you, but here are some suggestions: fear of failure, goodism, having to prove your worth,etc, etc.etc… Sound like you? I bet it does…
Keep at it, Bert, You can do it. I did it, you can too. Write to me any time you need help. You know where to find me, I am sure. –Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
| bert |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 16:55:08
quote:
[i]In addition, I see you are still rather preoccupied with the physical aspects due to injury and the like. It is important to put these things down and stop carrying them emotionally. They will certainly perpetuate the legitimacy of the pain. Hope this helps and please, keep in touch. – Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG
First, your book for me was best of all my readings so far. More insight on how to than the others I thought. As for being preoccupied with the physical aspects. Clue me in on how to ignore them. I tried to ignore the pain today after 3 days of babying my knee. Toward the end of the day I felt a painful stretching pull trying to rush to get work done, without thinking about my pain. I do notice that when my mind is constantly focus on pain my muscle get severely tense and tired out from gingerly favoring the movement of my body. My back really has been the main issue but since educating myself about TMS, it's been lessening. So I'm guessing I'm making some progress. The knee is a once in a while thing and seems to go away after a few days to sometimes a month. Although this time I had more problems of recurrence than any other. Fear is deffinitely a hugh factor for me. And that is because when I think I'm feeling really good and start moving like a normal human being, I have an episode sometimes. Now I'm learning these episodes are the mind trying to keep me in check. But I'm confused as to how to ignore the pain when if for ex. I take a step downstair quickly while working I have a severe pain. What would you do? Keep moving quickly and let the pain exist and hope it goes away or do I stop and try to regroup. Or am I just not getting it. I can deal with the pain and work when it's always there. It's the sharp drop to ground attacks that put me down. I recall in your book about how one episode was so bad it put you in the hospital. Those are the ones I fear. And I have to say I'm concerned because when they happen I may not be able to pay the mortgage without working. I've pretty much used up most of my savings from being out of work too much for the past year and a half.
All help is greatly appreciated. I have to beat this fast. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 16:15:38
Shawnsmith and Sensei, I especially appreciated these points that you made:
"Think about, for example, those events where you should have gotten angry or sad but you did not. This may be an example where you repressed and you may want to go back and visit that event." (Shawnsmith)
"Sometimes these issues are really not the cause at all, they simply point out the problematic character traits inside us all. The process of defeating TMS or any psychosomatic pain syndrome is really the same process as understanding yourself and coming to terms with your own personality." (Sensei)
This is an example of how I'm always learning from the insights contributed by the members here. Thanks! |
| sensei adam rostocki |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 14:20:37
Hi Bert, Hope you enjoyed the book. I think 1 hour at night is more than enough to spend reading and journaling. I rarely spent much more than that myself. it is the consistency that counts, more than the time. You do not have to come to terms with all the issues from your past or present, but it might help you to discover as many as possible. Sometimes these issues are really not the cause at all, they simply point out the problematic character traits inside us all. The process of defeating TMS or any psychosomatic pain syndrome is really the same process as understanding yourself and coming to terms with your own personality. If you can do this, you will break through to a cure.
In addition, I see you are still rather preoccupied with the physical aspects due to injury and the like. It is important to put these things down and stop carrying them emotionally. They will certainly perpetuate the legitimacy of the pain. Hope this helps and please, keep in touch. – Sensei
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 13:48:29
Think about those things that piss you off Bert. You will have no problem to compile a huge list if you think about it enough. Think about how each enraging event in your life has contributed to your resevior of rage over time and it sits there buried deep within you, wanting to burst out. The goal here is to draw your attention AWAY FROM your physical symptoms and unto your internal emotions, which are - for the most part- repressed under layers of defense mechanisms all for the sake of personal survival. If you cannot feel anything, you can at least imagine what you think MIGHT be there. Think about, for example, those events where you should have gotten angry or sad but you did not. This may be an example where you repressed and you may want to go back and visit that event. In addition, concentrate - to the best of your ability- on childhood upbringing, personality traits and current stressors. Dr. Nancy Selfridge in her excellent book "Freedom From Fibromyalgia" gives real practical tips on how to most effectively journal.
Take a look at how I journal on this board as one humble example of focusing on anger enducing events and then attempting to go below the surface of that conscious anger to get at the real roots of the issue:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3451
When you are thinking about these things you are drawing your attention away from your physical symptoms.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 13:01:15
Welcome Bert,
You may find it helpful to spend some of your reading time searching past threads on this forum, along with reading some of the current ones. I'd suggest that you particularly read some of the discussions about emotions, as that has given me a better sense of what people find useful in getting to recovery.
It seems to not be necessary to recall every painful event from childhood as much as to simply recall that you experienced emotional pain in both childhood and adulthood and to acknowledge your anger over having to experience that pain. Anger is usually tied to every sort of pain, fear, sadness and anxiety that we feel, and going beyond the surface emotion to acknowledge the anger seems to be one of the main keys for most people to recover.
The TMS books seem to all recommend that you write about each important relationship and the feelings you associate with that person. You may be able to recall specific events, but if not, the feelings are the main thing you want to uncover, and you can probably bring those up even if you don't recall the events that triggered the feelings.
Let us know how you do. Best wishes! |
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