| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 10:22:23
Ok that subject is very vague but couldn't figure out how to phrase what I actually wanted to ask so bare with me.
I am, in general, a very subdued person. While I do laugh on occassion it's not one of those gut wrenching laughs. I find it hard to be (overly) emotional. I am not as bad as I once was (my best friend used to tell me I was unemotional, she still doesn't understand why holidays don't excite me). I am a very caring person (sometimes too much so as is the case with most TMSers) and tend to worry a lot. I am confused where I stand religiously and when I have gone to a church where people are emotional about their beliefs I feel uncomfortable....ok I feel uncomfortable whereever people are being overtly emotional.
Ever since I was a fairly small child I have been this subdued less than emotional being. I don't have any true passions so to say or anything that makes me just want to jump with joy. I have figured out three reasons this is so but figuring that much out has done nothing for me.
Reason 1: I was constantly yelled at as a child to keep quiet and not to yell.
Reason 2: When I did get really excited about something, anticipation of third grade field trip in particular, I made myself sick to the point of throwing up and thus didn't get to go.
Reason 3: I was raised in a household that was less than emotional. My father is clinically depressed and my mom is just not that outwardly emotional at all. I didn't learn (yes learn) to hug until high school at a summer church camp and I still have trouble verbally expressing how I feel toward others to this day. Writing it out I have no trouble with.
There are probably other reasons but these are the only two I have been able to pinpoint thus far. Is anyone else reading this experiencing similar things? anyone overcome this? any sugestiongs/advice in general to better aid me in working through this????
Thanks in advance!!!
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 13:32:13
quote:
2. what I got so upset about in hindsight was so not worth any emotion let alone what I let it get too.
But the pain is real pain of your child self and (if guilt) most likely given to you by shaming parents, inappropriately. Acknowledging and grieving the harm it did to you to be made to believe that things were your fault may be helpful...and having compassion for yourself for things that you did that you were not helped to deal better with (as your relationship with your sister) where you should have had help.
I've also had issues with self-injury. There's a few theories about it, but it basically is thought to be a way of making emotional pain visible/tangible for people who have a hard time feeling and dealing with emotional pain, which pretty much lines up with TMS. I tend to remind myself if the urge ever comes up that the urge "means" that I am feeling emotional pain and I need to 'think psychological' as it were.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 08:44:31
Carbar I had tons of guilt growing up too and I think most of it was self imposed. I had a tendency to blame myself for most everything. I even went through a phase where I would hit myself hard enough to hurt but not hard enough to leave marks. Looking back 1. that was stupid to start with and 2. what I got so upset about in hindsight was so not worth any emotion let alone what I let it get too. Sadly sometimes to this day when I get really upset I had to mentally reframe from wanting to hit myself but that is something is very rare and far between but not yet totally gone. I am working on this as I know it's not a productive way to handle things. I think I may have gone from physically causing myself pain to mentally causing it from the inside. The hitting was in middle school and some in high school.
I still have feelings of guilt for many things as child the two that most come to mind are 1. how I treated my mentally handicapped younger sister (I loved to torture her because I was jealous of the attention she was receiving instead of me) and 2. a small kitten (my favorite at the time) that I accidnetally killed when my bicycle fall on its neck when I got off to try and pick it up. I cried for weeks and sometimes the guilt still pings me but it was a total accident.
anywa I hope you keep responding to this thread (not just carbar but anyone/everyone) I think it's helping some...helping me think/work through things. Thanks.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| carbar |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 21:27:39
Hey, thanks for everyone posting about inner child stuff. I really appreciate it. I've been feeling kind of stuck with this right now. I recently uncovered some feelings about being blamed for causing "bad" feelings and situations. I realized I've felt so much guilt that was just incorrect.
Like when my family adopted an older puppy when I was 11 and it was hard for me to train it coz we had this other dog who was much older and got really jealous whenever I'd try to take the puppy outside to train it and would bark and bark, which disturbed the neighbors. So, I didn't take it out to do training exercises as often as one should.
After that, anytime the puppy did something bad my mom made a big deal about how it was "my fault" that "I" didn't train "my dog." The only feeling I felt was guilt. So there's my mom not dealing with her own anger or responsibilty and making an 11 year old kid feel like ****.
GOd, this hurt my feelings so bad at the time, but I definitely did not feel it. I really didn't know how to respond, so I sure did repress it.
Thanks for the encouragement to look at WHY I learned to repress. |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 14:36:37
ACL,
I am soooo glad you said tearing up rose bushes...it helped bring about another memory from when I was a child. I had been told my grandmother (who died 4 years before I was born) was quite the green thumb and I wanted to try my hand at it. She had these beautiful rose bushes and where the had lived still had them so I was given permission by the neighbors to take a clipping. I brought it home and planted it and took care of it. Well my mom accidentally hoed it up so I replanted, my dad accidentally weed eated so I replanted what was left again, then he accidentally mowed it (I do believe it was accidental...there were no buds and did kind of look like it didn't belong though even though on some level they knew it was there and what it was) after bringing it back from the near dead 3 or 4 times it grew quite wild and out of control (I never learned to prune) but I go so fed up with it that I gave up. All I had wanted was to raise a rose bush that had been part of the rose bushes my grandmother so loved and nurished. OK yeah that hit a chord almost got tears going but at work so can't right now. Thanks for the reminder even though you had no way of knowing it was the right thing to say in the thread I started.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 11:25:25
Seeing some of this I really get some appreciation for the effort that my parents have gone through, more recently, to do work on healing their own wounds. Although I find it really frustrating that it took them so long (after a recent therapy session I wrote in my journal "It is just too goddamn late! Why couldn't they have done it earlier!") it's never totally too late. At least I will have some years of more positive experiences with them as an adult, which is valuable in a different way.
miehsnor, thanks. I have noticed that things can be really subtle. I think it's one reason it can be so hard to recover some of the pain. Because looking back later we just don't see that what happened was painful, since it seems pretty reasonable objectively.
There are some other pretty subtle things I have been uncovering too. I remembered one time when my parents decided to take out all the rosebushes we had. One of them was mine in particular and I loved it, although I didn't take care of it specifically. No amount of pleading from me would change their minds, not even my offer to learn to take care of the roses. I love roses and really wanted to keep them. As in the case of the candy bar, it's not so much what they did that was wrong but how they did it. They simply did not care that I loved the roses, they had decided and that was it.
There was no acknowledgment that my attachment to the roses was meaningful or important, and that's a theme that runs throughout all the incidents that are beginning to come back to me: that my feelings did not matter, were not important or meaningful, and would be ignored; they would certainly not help me understand or cope with my feelings and what they meant in the situation. I was to do what they wanted, period. This became a big deal with my younger brother, who knew (as siblings do) how to push my buttons. I love him, and I loved him a ton then, but man, he drove me NUTS when he was little. And the reaction was always: Don't let him get to you, don't get angry, and don't hit him, we don't hit people, and he's smaller, you should be nice to him. And I really wanted to be nice to him and to be a good sister, and have fun with him. But I never got any help in dealing with my feelings, and dealing with him, and them actually following through to help us improve our interaction. It was all on me to figure out how to cope, which I couldn't, so the whole pattern continued until I eventually learned to repress my anger (and promptly got TMS in the form of knee pain during exercise, sigh).
Each memory, each incident, may be a small thing, but they add up to something very large over time. Everyone has times when their parents ignored their feelings; parents are human beings and trying hard, not perfect. It's the overall pattern that is so painful.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 09:46:51
Corey- Thx for the validation. When I read your comment it kicked off the tears for me as well.
As you know from the "in the name of love" thread i'm going through hell with my folks right now. I got one horrible letter from my mom. After much thought I sent them a letter apologising for some things and asking for what we want in our relationship with them. Last week I got another equally horrible letter from them. It's like they didn't even read and understand what I was saying in the letter. I just don't think they are capable of relating to us(myself and my wife) in a constructive manner.
I see more and more just how damaged my parents are emotionally. The really sad thing is that they never made an honest effort to heal their own wounds.
Thx for the support! |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 23:19:46
Micah, this statement, "I will never be able to connect with him on a deeper level because of his own rejection of his own feelings," brought instant tears. What a profound insight that is. It explains why I feel disconnected from so many people in my family. Thank you for sharing that thought.
Corey |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 22:02:55
quote:
Originally posted by jrnythpst
I honestly do not know the answer to this one so if you have any insight as to how I can figure this one out that would be great.
Hugs,
Ali Cat
jrny- It's not a matter of figuring it out but feeling the feelings of the inner child(IC). Getting to those feelings is a long term process but one I think is well worth the effort. If you are interested there is a lot of info on this site regarding inner child work and there are a ton of books written on it as well. I've only looked at Bradshaw, Miller and a few others that I can't remember at the moment.
I have an impression from reading your posts that you have disconnected from your inner child which is not surprising. I think everyone that has been through a lot in childhood automatically disconnects to survive. What is wonderful however is that as adults we can choose to re-connect with that child. It just takes persistance, desire, and time.
What is especially sad for me is to see how disconnected my dad is to his IC and how much he has suffered in his life because of it. As I go through my process and plow through the feelings it becomes more and more clear to me this disconnection. He is old now and it is too late. I will never be able to connect with him on a deeper level because of his own rejection of his own feelings.
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| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 21:38:44
quote:
Originally posted by jrnythpst
I want to know how to undo what has been done in order to be what I envy in others.
I totally know what you mean, here. I'm working on the same thing. But I don't think you have to "undo" in order to become the person you want. I think it may just involve some searching, getting in touch with that child, acknowledging her pain and frustration, and giving her some tenderness and compassion. I know it might sound silly, but when you visualize her or journal about her, you could have a dialogue. You could even hold her in your arms and give her that attention that she so desperately wanted. Treat her (yourself!) just as you would one of your cats. She (and you) deserve it. This might be a good place to start and see how it goes from there.
ss |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 21:37:02
Miehnoser (I think I copied your name right...does it stand for something? last name? looks like German to me in a way...sorry words and names fascinate me)....ok to respond
jrny- Getting smacked in childhood is a terribly shaming experience for a child.
Sorry I still believe in spanking...please no arguments here (not just you Miehnoser, we all mean well) and I believe if more children were discipilned there would be less violence in the world. Ok this goes back to screaming uncontrolled kids running around the office I work in a lot and I was spanked as a kid and am a good moral person now who doesn't misbehave. (Those who disagree feel free to respond but I request that you not lecture please).
I was also not hit often, actually only a few times as I remember, but the times I remember were quite frightening and shaming. What was the most frightening wasn't even the physical act but the look in my fathers eye's- the look of rage like he was losing control. This even happened when I was a teenager once when I had a friend in my room. I remember distinctly not feeling about it because I was so programmed not to feel. When I brought the issue up years ago I was startled to get the response that he did not remember this and all the other incidents of physical punishment. To his credit he admitted that it was wrong to do it.
It sounds like you father, however, took it a bit far. Especially with a friend in the room and in high school. So in your case I do not agree. I think most people/kids (around here anyway) would be told to shape or lest "I tell your father when he gets home." It can be taken too far though and sometimes it's hard to tell where that line lies.
My impression is that you think that you have talked this out with your dad and have completed the issue but my hunch is that it is only complete from an intellectual adult point of view. The child probably has unresolved feelings about it like shame, rage, sadness, and a loss of dignity.
I honestly do not know the answer to this one so if you have any insight as to how I can figure this one out that would be great.
I am sorry you felt slighted and abused by your father. Outwardly you seem very mature, smart, and outgoing. Thanks for the response.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 21:24:04
jrny- Getting smacked in childhood is a terribly shaming experience for a child. I was also not hit often, actually only a few times as I remember, but the times I remember were quite frightening and shaming. What was the most frightening wasn't even the physical act but the look in my fathers eye's- the look of rage like he was losing control. This even happened when I was a teenager once when I had a friend in my room. I remember distinctly not feeling about it because I was so programmed not to feel. When I brought the issue up years ago I was startled to get the response that he did not remember this and all the other incidents of physical punishment. To his credit he admitted that it was wrong to do it.
My impression is that you think that you have talked this out with your dad and have completed the issue but my hunch is that it is only complete from an intellectual adult point of view. The child probably has unresolved feelings about it like shame, rage, sadness, and a loss of dignity.
Armchair- Another great post! Your example of your dad bribing you underscores the sublety of parental invalidation of feelings. |
| Shary |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 21:01:15
ACL, I'm never offended by anything on this forum. Even though I'm aware that not everything fits me personally, I'm here to learn as much as I can about TMS. I appreciate your input. |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:57:50
Sonora I am going to paste your sections and answer each because it's not a clear cut one of them.
I'm wondering if you could clarify exactly what you are seeking, or what you mean by "emotional release." From your first post, I got the sense that you just wanted to get in touch with your childhood and discover more about what circumstances helped shape who you are today. (I think getting in touch with this 'stuff' would bring you extraordinary emotional "release" or "relief" and would in turn allow you to move forward and re-shape (if desired) the person you want to become.)
It's partially this one as in I want to get in touch with the part of me I can't remember to see what is there (if anything).
Or, did you mean that (after having realizations #1, #2, and #3) you realized you didn't want to be that shy, unemotional person, and are looking for a way to become more comfortable (and outgoing) with your emotions. (I see this as sort of a cognative-behavioral jump.)
I have been working on this since 11th grade in high school and am no longer all that shy...still somewhat unemotional though but I am also fairly outgoing....I would like to be more comfortable with my emotions yes.
Or do you not have a desire to be a more "emotional" person, and are just realizing why you are the way you are.
trying to figure out all the pieces of the emotional puzzle. I want to know how to undo what has been done in order to be what I envy in others...full of life, full of spirit, unabated when it comes to showing emotions, able to take more risks, able to live more freely and not as confined in my little subdued goody two shoes life. I don't want to go too extreme though. I plan to maintain all my morals and principles just to loosen up a bit.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:10:40
armchairlinguist,
If you can feel something that is great. I am not saying that you will not feel something when you dig deeply, my point is it is not necessary for recovery. But thinking inwardly and drawing your attention away from the pain in the real key to recovery.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:33:38
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
For the vast majoirty of TMS cases emotional release is not necessary
Ali Cat,
I'm wondering if you could clarify exactly what you are seeking, or what you mean by "emotional release." From your first post, I got the sense that you just wanted to get in touch with your childhood and discover more about what circumstances helped shape who you are today. (I think getting in touch with this 'stuff' would bring you extraordinary emotional "release" or "relief" and would in turn allow you to move forward and re-shape (if desired) the person you want to become.)
Or, did you mean that (after having realizations #1, #2, and #3) you realized you didn't want to be that shy, unemotional person, and are looking for a way to become more comfortable (and outgoing) with your emotions. (I see this as sort of a cognative-behavioral jump.)
Or do you not have a desire to be a more "emotional" person, and are just realizing why you are the way you are.
So, I guess I was wondering if Shawn was misunderstanding or I was, or if I'm just not understanding what he said....
ss
p.s. Sorry about your previous experiences with therapists. I really think there is a difference between psychiatrists and psychodynamically-oriented psychotherapists, especially if you find some that are familiar with Sarno/TMS or mindbody therapy. Despite you and your family's bad experiences, I hope you'll try to keep an open mind for the future. You can always 'shop before you buy:' definitely pre-screen by phone and in-person. No reason for sticking with a weirdo--you have enough smarts to steer clear. And, from my experience, it can be worth the search. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:22:00
Shawn, just because it is not "necessary" does not mean it is not desirable.
I also have trouble remembering my childhood in detail, but gradually I have seen some events come back to me. I often feel like I got amnesia because I just didn't want to think about a lot of stuff that happened, I'd rather forget anything unpleasant about it if I could. Even though I knew about some stuff that bugged me, it was on a level I could handle intellectually. Looking deeper, I can see that a lot of stuff was going on at a much deeper level.
Sometimes with remembering, it's an event I already know about, but I get a new perspective on it -- the perspective of my child self. As adults we have essentially internalized much of what we learned from our parents about how to be, emotionally. Reconnecting with ourselves involves putting that back outside of us, where it came from. In John Bradshaw's book, he talks about being bearers of shame that doesn't belong to us. We were shamed at times when we were being ourselves, because our parents could not handle us being ourselves, for example, being angry. So we carry, inside, the shame that they gave us about being angry. But it doesn't belong to us, we shouldn't get it. So it's in a way about rejecting that and saying "It's not mine, it was fine for me to be that way, it IS fine for me to be that way."
For example, there is a story about me being bribed with a candy bar to finish doing something where I had gotten afraid in the middle of doing it. This story is regarded as funny and I always thought of it as such, until one day when I realized it was actually very sad, because my feelings in the situation were not respected. The whole focus was on how I shouldn't be afraid and I should finish up doing what I started because there was no other way.
I grant that in the reality of the situation my dad certainly had to do something to get me started again. But I feel there was a better option, to respect that I was scared first, allow me to express it and acknowledge that it happens to us all, and it's normal and okay, and then to move on to practical issues.
That's kind of what I mean by being aware -- this happened to me as I was walking down the street one day and thinking of this story. I was able to connect with it because I was kind of aware of the child by then.
I highly recommend The Drama of the Gifted Child and/or Healing the Shame That Binds You. These books can help to clarify what dynamics in a family are problematic and what kind of pain they cause to a child.
Also, jrny, I understand that you've had some bad experiences with therapists, but there are good ones out there, and they can be really helpful. I find that my sessions so far involve mostly me just talking and experiencing, and my therapist helping by suggesting connections and that I might not see given that I'm kind of down in the emotional trenches of the experience.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:37:18
For the vast majoirty of TMS cases emotional release is not necessary
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| jrnythpst |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 14:25:22
Sonora (that's pretty by the way) I did try the "shrink" thing a few years back. One just doped me up on drugs and I became a t total bitty and the other told me there was nothing wrong with me that I only needed more self confidence. Plus other members of my family would have been much much better off had they never gone to the "shrinks" they went too. I try to write it out and talk it out amongst friends and folks on here.
Gemma Louse I kind of understand the horse thing. I have always been a cat person. Cats were the only way I would show emotion (almost still to this date) I love my pets and constantly tell them that I love them and cuddle them and pet them. I just am not as emotionally secure with people. My cats all they have to do is greet me when I get up or when I get home and purr....that's there way of telling me they love me back. Self-esteem wise my father hindered it greatly as a child, he would call me a fat little pig and I would run to my room crying...detrimental to my self esteem as in looks. I've since talked to him about this and we get along great now. I can't undo the past though so yes it's still with me and it's almost a daily battle to overcome it. (I'm using a walker to get around now too ever since knee surgery back in NOvember....doctor thinks TMS is acting up a LOT, where as I do have a really really bad knee....eroded the joint by OA....he says I shouldn't be where I am at just due to that. I will eventually need a knee replacement as I have very limited range of motion and the joint space is narrowed. I am only 30 as well so that makes the self esteem bit a tad bit harder too. I get jealous of people with normal legs...but I'm working on it.) As for your parents smacking you, I think it depends on how hard, how often, what for, and your state of mind as to how badly it affected you. I was spanked as a child too but rarely because I was a good little girl (still am) and rarely misbehaved.
Armchairlinguist I think I was somewhat marginalized as a child too because of being a girl. I got in trouble in high school for walking around the high school with my female best friend at 8pm at night. My mom came driving up and demanded we get in the car because it wasn't safe for girls to be out alone at night. She wasn't this way with my brothers. Lordy if she knew all the times my friends and I would sneak out and go walking after midnight (yes we were corny, would join hands and skip along singing that Patsy Cline song).
Thanks for the answers again I really am enjoying readining others perspectives on things.
Hugs,
Ali Cat |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 13:46:40
quote:
Originally posted by jrnythpst
I do think there is something repressed from my childhood but couldn't begin to tell you what it was and I don't want to go to a "shrink" because I am too scared of having ideas put in my head.
Isn't it the idea to face our fears head-on? If you're actually afraid to see a shrink (for whatever reason), isn't this reason enough to do just that?  I guess what I'm getting at is that seeing a therapist is not such a big deal. It's really very common these days. I'm not sure you'd actually need to see a 'shrink,' i.e. a psychiatrist, but there's a chance you'd benefit from talking with a psychotherapist about your childhood memories. I know this topic has been discussed many times--there are good therapists and bad ones, ones that will 'gel' with you, and ones that you won't get along with. You might have to do some searching to find a good fit. But a good therapist will not 'put ideas in your head.' And I think you'd realize right away you're with the wrong person if this was the case. My current therapist barely says anyting during the whole session; it's mostly me talking things out. She'll interject a thought or pose a question to guide me further into what I am working through. I find that when I do TMS work on my own, my thoughts often reach a certain point and then stop; I feel like I've taken the thought/emotion/experience as far as it goes, but there is always more. And I've found that a good therapist can help bump your 'work' to the next level.
When I first began exploring my childhood, I had trouble remembering specific events; I just had these hazy, vague memories of my youth. It was frustrating and surprising to me that I couldn't remember things like how I felt at a particular time, or how people around me acted, but in actively exploring these memories over a period of time, things have become much clearer. Events and emotions reappeared--things I had completely forgotten (repressed?). If you keep returning to those memories on a regular basis, they will become clearer and more things from your past will re-emerge.
ss |
| Sky |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 12:46:03
Yea, it will take time...
Since reading Sarno's book a year and a half ago I've become a lot more open, comfortable laughing out loud and more likely to smile. I used to sort of always carry a frown on my face. I don't do that nearly as much anymore.
I still don't smile in pictures much. I've argued that it feels stupid to force a smile if that's not how I'm actually feeling. But I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just that something was repressed a long time ago, and I still haven't overcome the sadness of it whatever it was, and as I continually get in touch with how I'm feeling, I'll eventually unlock it and be a little more likely to be at ease and comfortbale enough and happy enough to crack that smile a little quicker and easier. Not to say that other people who do smile in pictures aren't faking it sort of, but I guess I just feel like there's a likely connection between consistently wearing a long face and having endured difficult, repressive times earlier in life.
I think if you keep at it Ali Cat, you'll accept your feelings, come to terms with why they're there, and as you come to peace with it, you'll gradually be a little quicker to express your emotions, to share them with others, and to generally feel more confident about and comfortable with yourself. |
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