| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 08:27:03
I used to have a problem with some of Austingary's posts, because it seemed he would always take a view that there is more to TMS than meets the eye, and that while it certainly is the culprit for much pain and misery, there are often other components as well. Like myself and Tennis Tom, Gary has run a number of marathons. Before leaving the forum, he mentioned that he had finally rid himself of residual back and hamstring pain using special exercises designed by Pete Egoscue. Of course this goes against all Sarno theory, right? Maybe not.
Originally, Sarno had used physical therapy in his treatment, but later abandoned it. Could it be that for athletes, the physical therapy part is still necessary? As a longtime marathon runner, I had the opportunity to have dinner with Jeff Galloway, an expert author on many books on running. Jeff also has a web site called www.runinjuryfree.com. Jeff has read Sarno, and recognizes his methods as valid. However, when I asked him about Sarno and chronic running injuries, he said "It's so hard to tell, it's all so intertwined..." Which brings me to my next point. As someone who has dealt with many running injuries, and has overcome each one, I have been stymied for eight years by chronic hamstring/butt pain (that many runners develop.) I have had some, but not complete success with Sarno's method. Recently, I read about a technique called "bodyrolling" in the Running Times magazine. www.yamunabodyrolling.com/. I went out and bought a kid's soccer ball and began to use it (rolling my hamstring and butt muscles per the instructions). Yamuna (the creator of the technique) claims that it will help blood supply to the bone/tendon junction. That is exactly where my problem area is, so I thought I'd give it a try. Guess what? I've now been running without pain for two weeks. I realize now that the mindbody process exists with this "injury" but that there is NOTHING wrong with jump-starting the pain-free feedback loop. After all, doesn't Sarno say that the oxygen deprivation can cause spasms, etc. in the muscles? Knowing that, and accepting Sarno's truths, doen't it than make sense for someone who runs 50 miles a week to use a few "physical" remedies as well as psychological ones? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guy |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 15:25:25
I would like to ask a TMS question.Does everyone here consider shin splints a physical problem?
In Sarno's book Mindbody Prescription he says shin splints are TMS tendonitis(pg 101-102)
I am a runner and have always used the method of Texasrunner and have tried to run thru the pain.I have had a bruised shin (shin splints )for 4 weeks ,I have been using Sarno's method to get rid of.
I ran 10 miles today and the pain was mild but 2 days ago I could hardly finish 2 miles.Should I keep running and using Sarno or go to rest and ice? Thanks |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 10:22:09
Great thread everybody. I think we're getting to the essence of TMS here. Congratulations to those who have used the Good Doctor's teachings to become PAIN-FREE and near pain-free. Reading your posts will give hope to the newbies here.
It's amazing to see, the improvements made by posters, in a relatively short period, after findng the board. They come here with excruciating pain and in a few weeks or months are mentoring others.
I just returned from a successful driving trip. I drove, almost a thousand miles, in one day, played in a tennis tournament, returned home feeling exhilerated, with no pain.
I think it may take longer for some to get better because they have more daily stress, tension, s--- and stuff to work through and work their way out of. I know I do.
I would love to run away from work and my responsibilities but that would just create, ultimatley, more problems and sustain my TMS pain longer. So I try to take care of my business, so I can hit the road with things in good order, with a sense of completion and resolution.
All of us are diferent and the time it takes to "fix" our TMS pain will vary, IMHO, on how much daily stess and past emotional baggage we have to deal with.
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| Dave |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 09:26:49
quote:
Originally posted by Monte
...gary never has gotten rid of his tms pain...
Please refrain from making unsubstantiated claims about other members. I'm sure if Gary was still active on this board he would respond, but conveniently, he is not. |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 19:50:15
Monte- no argument with your points at all. But how the hell is "I ice and self massage a lot, and I do power yoga 4x week, (which is the best body massage) you can give yourself..." any different from using a kids soccer ball once a day for a few minutes to work on tight/sore areas? |
| Monte |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 14:27:39
you have to realize how intelligent this disorder is...
if you are experienceing tension pain, but you ignore it by treating it as a physical pain because you are so sure it is your increased running---you are only kidding yourself...
always, always always acknowledge and accept tension pain for what it is,
a signal to pay attention to who you are being. a signal to experience those emotions/feeling you are repressing.
then spend your energy on a new awareness, an emotional awareness,
that will help you discover why you are (angry, frustrated, judgemental, regretting, resentful, worried, jealous, filled w/tension, have low self-esteem)
when you do this your body will soon experience less pain, less soreness,
and you will feel the increased openness, balance and freedom of tension/stress leaving your body.
|
| Monte |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 14:11:50
doubtful. gary never has gotten rid of his tms pain...that is your first clue. if you have a physical problem, like shin splints or
sore muscles from heavy workouts/pounding, or just extended training/pushing harder than usual, then of course ice, massage,
ect. will help. but if it is tension pain, forget it, you are only
helping the strategy succeed and you will remain in pain.
i've been running 120 weeks for months now, preparing for white rock in December. more miles more intensity, longer runs, harder runs, than ever before, and guess what? no tms pain. after really long, hard runs I ice and self massage a lot, and I do power yoga 4x week, (which is the best body massage) you can give yourself...but when
the tension pains try to sneek up on you, you just acknowlege and accept them as the signal to pay attention that they are... |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 10:29:12
Dave- I still stand by my motto of "whatever magic works." I have never once believed that my hamstring/butt pain was a permanent injury, even though it's been around for 8 years. I'm well aware of the thought patterns that keep it alive. If people are posting on this forum, chances are pretty good their TMS is "ongoing," which means it always has an open line of attack. For many, TMS is always waiting in the wings, no matter if you have pain or not. I think we all realize that. So placebo schmacebo!... If the kid's soccer ball worked out kinks generated by 8 years of "mild oxygen deprivation" and my belief in TMS did the rest, then great! I believe there has always been a lot of confusion about the underlying cause (TMS) and the actual physical results (muscle spasms, etc.). So to sum it up, I am "treating" it psychologically, and using an adjuct therapy of rolling the ball in the same manner that someone might take aspirin. And guess what? It works! |
| iyusaf |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 10:19:51
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
Did you discover a new found emotional pain that triggered the TMS reaction?
Yes.
Suz -- send me a PM if you want to discuss further. |
| Dave |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 10:08:06
The problem is, where do the physical "kinks" end and the psychologically-induced symptoms begin?
How do you know that "bodyrolling" is not simply acting as a placebo?
If you believe that TMS pain has a physical cause, and you apply physical treatments to the area in an attempt to treat the pain, then you are leaving TMS an open line of attack. Even if the pain originally had a physical origin (such as an injury) by thinking physical you make that site a prime candidate for TMS to set in.
It is of course possible to experience a physical injury. But it will heal completely, with or without physical treatment, and the site is not susceptible to "chronic" injury. |
| Suz |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 09:34:15
Iyusaf,
You wrote:
(Over a period of several weeks, I discovered and experienced the underlying emotion that was pushing it's way up and made the intellectual connection to the original trauma. The pain resolved itself instantly.)
Can you please expand on what you mean by discovering the underlying emotion? and made a connection to original trauma? I am trying to resolve my emergence of pain. Did you discover a new found emotional pain that triggered the TMS reaction?
I would love to hear more on this if you don't mind
thanks very much |
| iyusaf |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 08:57:03
quote:
Originally posted by Texasrunner
All I can say is, I am now running pain-free. My new motto is "Whatever magic works."
That's fantastic! Congrats on your great success and best wishes for continued good health. |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 08:48:26
Right. Iyusaf- I would never, ever doubt the effectiveness of the pyschological approach. I have had many symptoms (not related to running) that responded soley to that. Having been a runner for more than 25 years though, I recognize how the physical is intertwined with the psychological. I don't beleive I've ever met a runner who has not had a running-related injury. For me at least, a little jump start such as the "bodyrolling" enables me to bolster the effort with TMS thinking and take it the rest of the way. I understand how for some, applying any physical approach is contradictory, because in Sarno's words, it "rivets the attention to the pain." But I don't see how years of oxygen deprivation to a muscle/tendon could not have some sort of physical effect at that site. So in addition to allowing oxygen back in via confronting your emotions, why not work out the kinks in that area as well? The key is to keep believing TMS the whole time. All I can say is, I am now running pain-free. My new motto is "Whatever magic works."
A note to Sara- I have always continued to run, despite any pain, beacuse I noticed that stopping running did not change anything. |
| iyusaf |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 08:36:36
I swim regularly.
After many years of living and studying TMS I can tell you that there is definitely more to TMS than meets the eye -- mostly having to do with emotions.
I recently had a persistent flare-up so painful that I started to doubt Sarno. The anti-TMS techniques seemed to have stopped working for me. This flare-up had been present for about one year and disabling for a month.
I considered bolstering my anti-TMS technique with a physical approach. Since I had just about tried everything else over the years, I decided to try Rolfing regularly for a month (Rolfing is a type of deep tissue massage). I suppose a ball would have been cheaper. The increased blood flow had a temprorary soothing effect but the overall quality and intensity of the pain remained unchanged. Sarno speaks about this in his books.
After Rolfing I decided to see a TMS doctor in Los Angeles and asked for medication to help 'break' the pain. I continued to believe that I needed a physical approach to help bolster my anti-TMS techniques. I tried the medications for two days before throwing them out. They had no effect on the pain and made me sick.
After exhausting the physical approaches without any success, I returned to the TMS basics. I refocused my effort on emotional matters. Over a period of several weeks, I discovered and experienced the underlying emotion that was pushing it's way up and made the intellectual connection to the original trauma. The pain resolved itself instantly. |
| menvert |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 00:40:43
well sara,
i had trigger point injections(sounds exactly like what you just explained, sometimes with anaesthetic injected sometimes with acupuncture needles) for more than 6 months for my chronic pain in my arms.
Although this helped . It rarely got released in the area for long enough . each location generally returned after a month... and I had to keep going back for more. After a while it stopped having much effect, regardless of where I was injected or acupuncture needles stuck.
This was before I had any idea of TMS....
so in summary, without accepting mindbody principles... specifically TMS I don't think the physical therapy would be beneficial... BUT if you have mastered your TMS , psychologically, then yes maybe physical therapy at that point can be beneficial.
But I think it's important to view the physical therapy at that point as reconditioning and never thought of as the cure or fix for your problem.
so , TMS deals with the source of the problem & the exercise programs and physical therapy bring your body back to condition afterwards.
That being said, yoga & various exercises gave me back my muscle tone I had been severely lacking(which in turn enables me to get over physical fears much better, because I'm no longer weak) but then after a while it became a distraction, which prevented me from accepting TMS properly... and started to cause pain itself.. SO there is a very fine line to be travelled regarding physical therapy.
oh , I forgot to mention regarding actually getting better TMS knowledge has actually done many many times more to cure me than any of the physical therapy I have ever had(trigger point injection,bone & muscle manipulation, acupuncture, masarge, float tank, aromatherapy, many forms of physiotherapy, yoga, swimming). |
| Sara |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 19:49:35
Texas Runner,
I have just began my journey with TMS, and I too had some similar questions. It seems to me that once one has accepted the diagnosis, shouldn't it be possible to help the brain "let go" of these muscles. I have been doing a treatment called IMS (intramuscular stimulation). An acupuncture needle is placed in the muscles' trigger points which causes them to go into spasm and ultimately let go. Also because it pierces the muscles, it requires the body to use its own healing mechanisms. In order to do this there is then more blood flow through these muscles. I feel like anything that might improve blood flow to the sore areas ought to be a good thing, but as I said, I am new to this and have yet to truly embrace TMS for my particular problems.
P.S. I too was once a marathon runner. As of today, I have not run in nine years 
Sara |
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