| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 14:28:01
Is being aware of repressed emotions different from "experiencing" them? Dr. Sarno says the key is to be aware of the repressed reservoir of rage, and to reflect on the many things that could cause the rage. Is this the same as being mindful, present, conscious? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| moose1 |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 18:29:12
Tennis,
Yes, racquetball is an amazing game. I've been playing since college and I've won a few tournaments for my age group over the years. Hitting that ball is also a great way to work out the frustration of TMS.
When I first got this pain, an orthopedic "specialist" actually told me that not only should I curb my competitive r'ball playing, but that I should also do 200 sit-ups a day to "splint" my spine and stablize it. This advice made me so incredibly angry that I played anyway and blew off the sit-ups. I discovered immediately that it felt better when I played. After the first time playing with/through the pain, I fully expected to pay for it the next day. I thought it was very odd that I woke up the following day with absolutely no pain at all, which is unusual because I almost always wake up with a back ache. Not too long after that, I found MBP and the whole thing began to make sense.
I like your idea that we have to "un-install [TMS] from our mind-muscle-nerve memory systems." I totally agree. It sure can be an uphill battle at times.
Moose |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 10:20:04
Dear Moose 1,
Congratuations on your racquetball tournament win. That's a tough sport. When I play serious tennis, my pain also ceases to be a distraction. I still have impaired court coverage but the intensity of the event enables me to not not think about and feel the pain as much, if at all. During practice against softer players, I return to bad habits and it allows my TMS to surface and the pain and limp return. The answer for me is to literaly hunker down and practice with the same intensity as tournament play. I am fourtunate to also have a great tennis coach who yells at me to do this. Recently I have realized why he needs to be so tough on his students.
You have had TMS for three years. I'm going on 10 years and feeling
98%. In a sense we have had TMS all of our lives. It took years for the TMS buttons to be installed by our parents, peer group and life in general. It may take some time to un-install them from our mind-muscle-nerve memory systems.
Be patient and greatful that you are able to function to such a high level. It took me a while to get over the shock of being diagnosed with "arthritis". It souded like such a mundane condition. I was in denial of it for a long time. I wanted a more exotic malady that would play better for cocktail hour conversation.
I now accept that I have some stiffness in the morning. It takes me a little while to get my joints juiced up. To get the circulation going, I do a ten minute warmup on the exercise bike, brisk walk or slow jog, until I break a sweat, prior to any ballistic movement.
So, Moose 1, be patient and accepting. Distract your mind from the negative pain thinking with positive thoughts. It sounds simplistic but it works. The pain's purpose is to distract us from some other thought. It could be a positve thought as well as a negative one. |
| menvert |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 20:39:07
moose1,
from you post it sounds like despite focusing on the psychological maybe you're still focusing a lot on your physical. Is there a general lack of pain when you're preoccupied with something else? ie. When your brain no longer needs a distraction, because you already have a real-life distraction.
Just another thought does your lower back pain perform some sort of benefit to you?, whether consciously or not? ie is it a mechanism for getting sympathy continually from people? doesn it allow you to get out of particular things you don't want to do? or prevent you from dealing with something, because you're preoccupied with it?
For me, I'm starting to realise my TMS is something part of me wants and is unwilling to let go of because it serves a real-world purpose, which prevents me from actually dealing with uncomfortable situations and serves as an excuse I can use to get out of anything.
Otherwise, maybe rereading Sarno books or reading something else on mindbody might reveal some important aspect you completely missed or misinterpreted... because it certainly sounds like you've put in the required effort.
Or maybe even take a month off from doing the anti-TMS work and see what that does. Maybe all this hard work is simply reinforcing the pain.... |
| moose1 |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 09:30:04
Hi,
My TMS is incredibly stubborn. I have it in the form of a chronic, 24/7 low back ache and I've had it now for almost three years. I've done all the TMS emotional/psychological work and continue to do so. I've also been to therapy and have acknowledged and come to terms with my messed up childhood and all the other stressors in my life currently that my unconscious mind finds enraging. Nevertheless, my pain persists.
Furthermore, my TMS does not prevent me from doing anything I enjoy, so there's no physical obstacle for me to conquer to prove to myself that there's nothing structurally wrong. In fact, I recently won a local racquetball tournament, winning six matches over the course of two days, which entailed about 4 hours of seriously hard-core physical exertion. My pain is always either minimal or about 95% gone during and for about an hour after any physical activity. Eventually, however, it returns, nagging and maddening as ever.
I too get sick of looking at my list. In fact, I think if you study your list too much, it loses whatever effect or power it had. If I had to add to it anymore, I’d be inventing things that never happened to me. And because my TMS is chronic, there's really nothing that "triggers" it, because it’s always there...there is no sudden onset to examine and tie to any specific event or physical action.
As for acknowledging unconscious rage as opposed to actually having to feel it, I agree that everyone is different. I've tried both until I'm blue in the face, and so far I've only had minimal success in relieving the pain for any significant period of time.
So if anyone has any suggestions on how they've dealt specifically with very chronic, yet not disabling, low back TMS, I'd be grateful for any feedback.
Thanks!
Moose |
| menvert |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 07:55:52
Yes often it seems it is not beneficial going to dredge up your past... but for some people it seems specific past events contribute to and can relieve a large percentage of that rage in our unconscious. The trouble is being unconscious it can be very random, whether or not, we spend years searching for or manage to bring out the important issue first...
for me thinking about my past, often just initiates the blame game. Thinking yes, that's the issue, which [psychologically] ruined my life and such. Unfortunately, it seems to me that most of this stuff still only touches on conscious emotions. I'm still unsure how to get into the unconscious stuff.
And I'm not sure when I have an attack do I try to figure out specifically, what triggered that attack or in a more general sense go through my list of personality traits/events I think cause lots of rage/my past(ie focus psychologically, regardless of whether its a relevant psychological event right now) ? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 15:28:55
[quote]Originally posted by Suz
Dear Tennis Tom,
I think I gather from your post that it is necessary to face current or more recent stressors to reduce the pool of rage in the unconscious - but how about the old reserve?
Dear Suz,
I'm not sure if I'm posting my reply correctly, in the new board format but here goes.
Everyone is different. I try to live in the present and feel I'm doing so relatively successfully since I feel pretty positive about life and the future. It is hard to remember my original TMS pain level because it's closing in on ten years since my lower back pain started and worked it's way down to my hip where it has settled in. I would have to delve into my past and try to research and remember the different mile markers of my TMS journey which at the moment I'm too busy and happy living in the present to do--maybe when I write my memoires.
I consider my TMS to be 99% under control. If I would take time off to rest my hip I think it could be 100%. I choose to play through the pain. It's something I consciously do to myself. I can do everthing normally needed from a physical basis to get through the day. Walk miles, sit and drive for hours, and an ocasional head and handstand. The only place my TMS/hip arthritis hinders me is under competitive tennis conditions where I am one step short. I am working with a great coach who understands my situation and is able to work around it. I'm in the homestretch of a learning process and can't bring myself to sit on the sidelines now. I am looking forward to someday resting it while driving the beautiful backroads of the USA between tennis tournaments.
I am very grateful to Dr. Sarno for writing his books about TMS theory. I am grateful that I live a reltively pain free life and can do all the normal things. Anytime I feel something physical, I immediately put it into a TMS context and it disappears in a moment or a few days. If I am in an emotional or stressful situation I stop and breathe and think about it in TMS terms. I try to resolve it then and there to keep from obsessing about it and eventually having to repress it. I think the term for this is rationalization. As I recall this was a pajorative in the 60's but means reasoning a problem through.
Like I said, everyone is different and at different stages in their TMS work. My case was not severe enought to require psycho-analysis, although that may have been beneficial and sped recovery along. I read all of Sarno's books, twice each and also tried all the physical remedies from A-Z. I got some soothing and placebo from all the physicsl stuff but owe my well being to Sarno's TMS theory. |
| Suz |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 13:24:58
Dave,
That is very interesting - I have been examining my past a little for the very purpose of understanding my personality traits - the perfectionism, not feeling good enough etc. - I think that recognising and understanding these holds the key to stopping the TMS in it's tracks. Do you think that examining lists of these personality traits of oneself, reducing stress in one's life as much as one can - is the effective answer?
suz |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 13:13:04
I agree, there is nothing to gain simply by dredging up old childhood traumas.
However, by examining your childhood, it can help shed some light on why you have developed certain personality traits associated with TMS. |
| polly |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 11:36:06
Suz,
I too can easily list past problems and I decided not to go to therapy. I've been there and done it. I went to see a therapist that Sarno recommended and she was wonderful. I considered going back into therapy. I had to go out of state for a few months and I'm glad I didn't get on a schedule with her.
I don't see the point in rolling around in that mess anymore. It's taken most of my adult life to come to terms with it. For me, it seems like going backwards. The key is that I know that stuff is what causes the pain. Not the laundry list of medical diagnosis I've been given.
Polly |
| Suz |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 10:48:20
Dear Tennis Tom,
I think I gather from your post that it is necessary to face current or more recent stressors to reduce the pool of rage in the unconscious - but how about the old reserve? Have you managed to switch off the TMS demon or is it still plaguing you? I would hope it would work to address more recent issues, accept and be very aware of the perfectionist/personality traits and leave the deep past alone - maybe it is a matter of reducing the rage reserve that way. I do not relish the thought of going into therapy to study my childhood traumas. Obviously, if I have to, I will. I am very aware of what I went through - can easily list past problems - but don't particularly want to do that.
thanks
Suz |
| Suz |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 10:40:03
Dear Dave,
Thank you so much for that advice. I was taking citrucel for fiber as I do not do well on any grains. When I was going through all my back tests at the begining of this year that lead me to Dr. Sarno, I also did a whole bunch of tests on my digestive system. The gastro guy told me that I have IBS - totally due to stress. He suggested citrucel - instead of wheat or grains. However, I am nervous that that feeds into the condition. I eat alot of vegetables and some fruit every day. I know this is a form of TMS - so maybe if I just take the fiber supplement - and nothing else -that should work. Interestingly enough, for the first week after seeing him - I was so relieved that there was nothing wrong with me and I was taking his citrucel - my system worked beautifully for the first time in years -but then it stopped working -however that was before I saw Dr. Sarno. So maybe the combination will be good. I don't want to psychologically feed into the problem.
I really appreciate all the help on this board - it is so wonderful
Suz |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 10:33:54
This is a very good thread. What we are addressing here is the essence of TMS. The pool of rage, to me, would be our past and how it conditions us to deal with the present. Sarno says that TMS pyhsical symptoms can be triggered by events that seem positive as well as negative. From the list in his book of top 100 stressors, the one that always jumps to my mind is having to take out a mortgage and conversely paying off a mortgage. Why paying off a mortgage should create stress seemed beyond me. But it is a good example of how TMS might work. Any event that marks a turning point in our lives and takes us out of our homeostasis, our comfort zone.
Our individual personalities may have evolved to be fast to react, slow to react or anywhere in between, to events placed in our path. If the event takes us out of our emotional comfort zone, our homeostasis, then I think rage is triggerd. We must take ourselves out of auto-pilot and think and deal with a demand on us. If we ignore the un-settling event, then it becomes repressed and fills our un-conscious pool of rage. When the pool gets full, it splahes up against the membrane separating our conscious from the pool of unsettling, anxiety, fear creearing events we failed to deal with haead-on and repressed. When the build up becomes acute we get jabbed, punched, abraded by the overflowing pool.
To me TMS work is dealing with life in the present head-on. Coming to some form of conscious resolution with each event. This can also include the conscious realization that I am too tired to deal with this at the moment and will return to it when I feel more rested and capable of feeling what I am doing. This can also be about a positive event or task. I may procrastinate something pleasurable so that I can more fully enjoy it when my enrgy level is higher.
If we make a conscious effort to deal with the events that can trigger TMS then I believe we can keep the level of rage low in the pool, in a distant past, burried hopefully forever or until we choose to dredge it up and deal with it in the light of our present, mature, and powerful consciousness. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 08:44:51
quote:
I wonder if the first huge step to success is absolute acceptance that the symptoms indicate NOTHING WRONG STRUCTURALLY
YES.
quote:
I have decided to stop taking fibre supplements...
Fiber supplements are not a bad thing, assuming you're talking about the natural kind like Metamucil or Citrucel. It's true that digestive symptoms can certainly be TMS, but it's also true that our bodies like a certain amount of fiber in our diets. And, fiber has other health benefits like lowering cholesterol.
Even if the symptoms are TMS, as long as your mindset is solid, there is no harm to curbing the symptoms if you can. If you get back pain, take some tylenol. If you get heartburn, take a pepcid. Suffering does not accomplish anything. |
| Suz |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 08:28:02
Hey guys,
I wonder if the first huge step to success is absolute acceptance that the symptoms indicate NOTHING WRONG STRUCTURALLY - important to laugh at the unconscious. I had a flare up this weekend after two months of no pain - purely because a thought popped into my head that I might hurt my hip (I was carrying a rather heavy child) - I forgot and went into my old thinking pattern. By the next day, I was in agony. It took me two days to talk to my brain and be absolutely convinced that there was nothing wrong - just the mind. I decided to wear really high heels to work to fight the pattern of thinking!!! It worked - within one hour, I had no pain.
I know that I still have TMS symptoms, because I keep getting other symptoms - especially constipation (sorry everyone!) I have decided to stop taking fibre supplements and other medication and to take the same approach - so I hope to conquer that too.
I am not happy about looking at all these stressor lists, childhood pain etc. as I hate wallowing in anger or sadness - but I will try and step that up a little.
Sorry I went on a bit - my point was that one has to get past the "conditioning" - that Pavlov's dog syndrome.
Suz |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 07:18:24
Dave -- great explanation as to why really feeling current negative emotions is important. Thanks so much. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 17:03:04
By attempting to feel our negative emotions, we try to prevent them from being repressed and added to the pool of rage.
We don't know what's in that pool, but we do know that if it overflows, we get pain. |
| Susie |
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 16:09:41
A confusing thing to me about Dr. Sarnos work is that he tells us we can't touch the rage in our unconscious and that is ok because all we have to do is be aware that it is there. However, we are told to make lists of events causing anger and dissapointment. Isn't this trying to reach whatever is causing our rage? I have made lists and used the workbook and been helped tremendously but I wondered if any of you saw a discrepency in this explaination. Am I missing something? I know his method works, I guess I am just trying to better understand his concept. |
| polly |
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 15:23:08
I had some serious childhood trauma that I thought I had dealt with until it almost crippled me. When I first started the path to healing with TMS, remembering those things nearly broke me. I was both crippled and an emotional wreck.
What works for me now is recognizing what is causing the pain. I constantly reaffirm to myself that there is nothing physically wrong with me. I don't think I can get rid of the repressed reservoir of rage. I just recognize what it does and try to make myself feel better...usually by laughing...the real magic pill for me.
Polly |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 14:47:05
In my opinion, being mindful, present and conscious just puts you into the here and now -- away from the regrets of the past and the fears of the future. When your mind is free, although just temporarily, of this past/future distracting baggage, you may have a clear enough head to get a flicker of a mental image of what you are repressing, and then you can try to consciously pursue that trail to its source in your childhood....It may sound strange, but I feel that I have made some headway remembering instances of childhood trauma in this way -- in the early mornings when I walk.
I guess I am signing in? I'm a veteran from the old board. |
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