| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Trebuchet |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 06:48:59
Hello everyone,
I've just discovered Dr Sarno and this forum and I just wanted to tell you my symptoms to see if any of you share them and if they could be TMS.
Here are the facts:
- I have been in pain for twenty years.
- I have had every kind of test (including a CAT scan), all negative.
- For the first five years or so, the pain was located only at the sides of my necks, then it spread to my hips (or kidneys or whatever... it's very hard to pinpoint where the centre of the pain is exactly) and finally to my feet. I found this latest development absolutely puzzling, as there are no glands or lymph nodes in the feet.
- Of course, when the pain started, I assumed that it had a purely physical/mechanical origin. Was it bad posture? Was it dislocated vertebrae or something? The scans didn't show anything, and then the pain disappeared for months, so I was totally puzzled. Now I am more inclined to think the pain is psychosomatic... but it is SO REAL... I don't know what to think.
- The pain is completely, and I mean COMPLETELY random. Totally unrelated to what I do. I can rest for an hour or run for an hour, the pain is the same. At night, I can sleep, but I don't wake up refreshed. As soon as I wake up (but this is hard to tell of course, because I'm still half asleep) it seems the pain is not present when I am sleeping but it flares up the very second I wake up. I could be mistaken about this, but it's what it feels like.
Is there a link between the pain and my mood? Maybe a tenuous one, but I am not sure. If I concentrate on the pain, I seem to feel it more, but if I try not to think of it, it certainly does NOT disappear.
- The pain feels like swelling and it's not pulsating. The pain in my neck feels like to little balloons inflated in my neck (but there absolutely no outward sign of this, no evidence of swelling). To all the doctors who have told me to "relax" I have replied "How can I relax with two inflated balloons in my neck?"
- Occurrence of the pain is, once again, completely random. I can have the pain for one week, two weeks, then it can go away for months... I remember once being pain-free for a year, then the pain came back with a vengeance - not related to any particular event.
- Is this TMS? How can I make it go away? PLEASE!!!! |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 06:58:55
quote:
Originally posted by oz_tgap
Now I am more inclined to think the pain is psychosomatic... but it is SO REAL... I don't know what to think.
-Paul
psychosomatic pain is ALWAYS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| oz_tgap |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 16:14:29
Now I am more inclined to think the pain is psychosomatic... but it is SO REAL... I don't know what to think.
.......................................................
Psychosomatic pain is real, not imagined. It originates psychologically, but there are real physical changes that take place in the body - and very real pain!
-Paul |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 16:01:46
I was talking to a friend of mine today who is well into his 80s. His dear wife died about 6 months ago, and she was a real dear to many people. He told me he now, for the first time in his very active life, has severe low back pain and they are given him cortisone shots. He hates to even leave his home even though he is fine otherwise.
Again, this is another classic case of TMS in an elderly man who is angry on the inside for getting older and losing his wife. But since he is a very religious person he is expected to repress these feelings and be patient without complaint. This is the stuff that TMS is made of.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 09:06:08
As I quoted Sarno in another thread, all maladies have na emotional element. Dr. Sarno notes in his books that some TMS patients have been in so much pain that they have been bed ridden. Been there, done that......
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 07:01:13
As you will learn reading sarno, this recent increase in your pain is just a strategy of the mind. Now that you've learned the true source of your pain, your mind will do its best to convince you otherwise. Don't let it fool you! You may also find your pain migrating from location to location during this process; this is called the symptom imperative, and is yet another strategy the mind uses to try to keep you focusing on the physical, not the emotional/mental.
You've told us a lot of detail about your physical symptoms (which is great, since you're realizing the odd paterns and characteristics of the pain) but nothing yet about your emotional and psychological life. Have you been able to do any exploring in that vein, connecting certain events or pressures/stressors to times of pain? Absence of pain on vacation is a good example, and this is typical for TMSers. Once you're away from the pressures of everyday life, focusing on just having fun, your pain "magically" disappears. I usually have the opposite reaction, as I find it more difficult to relax on vacation, still being caught up with the notion that "I should be doing my work...I don't deserve to be taking this time off..." As a result of this way of thinking, my pain arises with a vengence.
Can you tell us some other emotional/psychological aspects of your life that may be connected to your pain? If you haven't thought of any yet, that's ok. Just get comfortable with the process, gradually shifting your mind away from the physical, and things will eventually flow.
ss |
| Trebuchet |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 04:29:19
Hello everyone again and thanks again for sharing your thoughts and ideas with me. Two days ago I didn't know anything about TMS or Dr Sarno and I was wallowing in my 20-year-old pain, and now I can't think of anything else... it's been a revelation!
I have been thinking a lot.
Here's a few more reasons why I think my pain might be pure TMS with no underlying structural causes:
- When I am away on holiday/vacation I NEVER have it (or I have it for the first two days, and then it goes away).
- At night I seem not to have the pain.
- When the pain goes away, it does so more or less instantaneously (in half an hour or so...), apparently without reason, and leaves no residual effects.
====
PS: My pain is "maximum strength" today, in my six usual places: sides of the neck, hips/kidneys area and shins.
I am crippled today. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 21:35:08
quote:
The only reason why I am not 100% sure the pain has no mechanical origin is that IT'S SO STRONG!
In The Mindbody Prescription, Sarno, describing what he would tell "you" the patient if you were in his office, writes:
"The pain, stiffness, burning, pressure, numbness, tingling and weakness were caused by mild oxygen deprivation in the muscles, nerves or tendons involved in each case. In itself this was harmless. Although it could produce more severe pain than anything else I knew of in clinical medicine, you would not be left with residual damage when your symptoms diappeared." (p. 141)
And:
"In the case of TMS the process is invariably benign, though the symptoms may be exceedingly severe." (p. 59)
Emphasis mine in both cases. From the mouth of the Good Doctor himself, the message is that the intensity of your symptoms doesn't mean they aren't TMS.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 19:31:42
just a quick note: try www.amazon.co.uk for sarno books locally. Or I think amazon.com (US) will ship to the UK.
best,
ss |
| ndb |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 19:16:37
Hi Trebuchet,
I agree with the other that you sound like you have TMS. This is really good news, because once you start exploring the emotional reasons responsible for your pain, it will go away, sometimes people are surprised how quickly.
I just wanted to add that you can get an audio version of 'Healing Back Pain' here (when I first stumbled onto the idea of TMS, I listened to this recording because it sounded so RIGHT and I couldn't wait to go and get the book): do a search on Sarno, two of his books come up.
www.audible.com
Also, though the title refers to back pain, that's an older book and the ideas apply to all TMS symptoms. Also, the setting it up to listen to the recording from the site is a pain in the ass, but I remember being able to do it.
Best of luck on your recovery,
ndb
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| Trebuchet |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 18:34:29
Thank you Sonora Sky and Tennis Tom for your kind words and wonderful encouragement. I really need it, and this is the first time I can actually share my pain (in the literal sense!) with other people, since nobody can really understand my situation.
I will take my time to read the TMS literature and I'll try to buy Dr Sarno's book (Can I buy it here in England? Can I buy directly for Dr Sarno's website? Will it ship here?) but I obviously understand that a kind of pain that I've had for twenty years cannot disappear overnight.
For the moment, I just wanted to share some more random thoughts about my pain with you. It's actually wonderful that I can open up and talk about this with people who can understand. I would be grateful if you could tell me if you share some of my feelings or past experiences.
Now... where do I start?
First of all, I must say: thank God I am self-employed. If I had an employer, I'd really wouldn't know what to say to them.
- Sorry, Boss, I'm afraid I'll have to take some MORE days off.
> Why?
- Because I am in pain.
> Why are you in pain?
- Uhm... err... I am not sure.
> How long have you had your pain for?
- Uhm... err... about twenty years.
You can see this conversation leads nowhere, certainly nowhere good, possibly somewhere totally humiliating. What do those of you who are not self-employed say to your boss? But in general, I find that mentioning my pain to people, even to friends, is generally taboo, or leads nowhere. What can I say to people? "I am in pain"? Then people want to know why, and I don't know what to say. I have the choice between staying silent or trying to explain things for two hours. But then I start to wonder: why would I want to tell people about my pain? They cannot help me, they cannot understand (how could they?), they might think I am crazy, I certainly don't want their sympathy...
With some friends, I have mentioned the pain just once, witnessed various reactions (bewilderment, apathy, rarely curiosity, and the occasional moronic "pull yourself together!"), then backtracked and never mentioned my pain again. What CAN I say?
A bit of history now. When the pain first started, I was still in my teens. I was shocked. As I have said above, the pain was "two inflated balloons at the sides of my neck". I freaked out. I can't remember how long the very fist "bout" of pain lasted, but I remember that I soon started seeing doctors, accompanied by my parents (more about them later). The first doctor I saw injected some anti-inflammatory liquid in my neck. No change.
In twenty years I must have seen... I don't know... about 15 doctors? Of all kinds: simple GPs, hospital consultants, etc... I've undertaken every single test under the sun and the moon. X-rays, blood tests, a CAT scan, I saw a psychologist, a psychiatrist, everything! It helped that my father was a pharmacist, so he knew quite a few doctors, but then later, as an adult, I went to see doctors unaccompanied, I referred myself, of course.
All the doctors that I have seen were - and I don't mean it in an offensive way - quite clueless. For every doctor I went to, I made a point NOT to disclose any past diagnosis, in order not to influence them and to have a clean slate. I received a myriad of different diagnoses, from the completely physical to the completely psychological, and everything in between. Doctors were unsure, scratching their heads. One night, in desperation, I even went to a hospital's A&E department. A doctor saw me, I explained my symptoms, and he said: "Hmmm, that's a tough one". I was sent home. What could they do?
Now I am going to say something that might seem absurd.
One problem with my pain is that it's not acute. It's not "scream out loud" pain. It's a strong, debilitating pain, but it's not "scream out loud" pain.
Sometimes I wish it was "scream out loud" pain so at least doctors would DO SOMETHING!
Acute pain would be unequivocal and people would react. Something would happen! But no, my pain is simply "strong" (NOT "mild") so people who know about it tend to underestimate it.
I used to get very angry at my parents when they'd say "Oh, but you can sleep, so it cannot be that bad after all".
They said that many times, and every time I felt like strangling them. This comment made me so angry!
Yes, I can sleep (I'm telling you guys in this forum, I certainly don't need to justify myself with my parents or my friends), but it's not refreshing sleep. I wake up tired. As I have said above, one thing that seems to be happening is that when I am sleeping THE PAIN IS NOT THERE. But then, of course, this is very hard to say, because I am sleeping. It seems to me that the pain flares up one second after I wake up. But then maybe I am imagining it. Just as I am imagining the pain.
I have tried every trick to get rid of my pain. I have even lied. Since saying "oh yes it's constant but it just hurts a bit" normally elicits just a blank, unfazed face from the doctors, recently I have "upped the ante" with a couple of doctors, making them believe that the pain is stronger than it is, near-acute. I have even shouted "I am not leaving until you sort out my pain!!!" But I couldn't keep up the ruse. I can't act, and moreover I can't act when I am in pain. And the doctors' faces were still blank and unfazed. So back to square one.
Another problem is this: I have the pain, I make an appointment with yet another doctor, in the meantime the pain goes away, and when I am face-to-face with the doctor, I am pain-free. What do say to the doctor? It's already difficult talking about the pain when I have it... Imagine how difficult it is when I don't have it!
Also, when I don't have it, I seem to forget about it, and maybe subconsciously I don't want to think about it. Who knows.
When the pain first appeared, of course, I thought: totally physical/mechanical. It's a strong pain, so it must be physical, I thought, I can't be imagining it.
Now, after twenty years, I am 90% sure it's purely psychological. This is for two reasons.
1. If I cut my finger and feel pain, I take painkillers and the pain disappears easily. There's no amount of pills that can make The Pain disappear.
2. If The Pain is a warning sign (of what??? Cancer? Infection?) I should be dead by now! It's been going for twenty years!!
The only reason why I am not 100% sure the pain has no mechanical origin is that IT'S SO STRONG!
I think the ultimate test would be to numb the areas by injecting them with a strong local anesthetic like lidocaine, Emla, Novocain or whatever you want to call it. If this does NOT stop the pain, it would be irrefutable evidence that the pain has no physical basis (and this of course would not mean that "it's in my head").
I have asked a few doctors to do this, but they have all refused.
What are your thoughts?
Sorry for my ramblings.
Trebuchet |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 09:35:00
quote:
Originally posted by Trebuchet
Hello everyone,
- Is this TMS? How can I make it go away? PLEASE!!!!
Hi Trebuchet,
YES, it probably is TMS. You probably found out about TMS by NOT finding a solution to your pain, exhausting conventional medicine practices over a twenty year period. That's how most of Dr. Sarno's patients stumble into him, he is usually the doctor of last resort.
The answer to the second part of your question is pretty much up to your mindbody. Sonora Sky is right on with her advice to you, explore the emotional. Your post was very intellegently written, a good summary of your structural symptomology. You also exhibit a good predisposition to wrap your mind around the Good Doctor's TMS theory for the causes of pshchosomatic/psychogenic pain. The faster you can make the mindbody connection, between your structural pain and it's psychological origins, the faster you will be able to go after the the emotional issues underlying them.
Accepting that REAL physical pain can be created by the mind is the big step. Resolving or accepting your life-cycle issues that neccesitate the distraction/protection, offered by the TMS pain, can then be dealt with on a conscious level.
For a short-cut to discovering these life cycle issues, look at the list in Dr. Sarno's THE MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION on page 26, by Drs. Rahe and Holmes. It delineiates the stressful life events causing psychosomatic "dis-ease". Finding the social situations that created your internal rage, will help prove to yourself the universality of TMS and its application to your human condition.
Welcome and Good Luck!
tt |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 08:12:53
OMG, this sounds like classic TMS. You've had all the tests, which have come back negative; the pain moves around randomly, with little or no connection to the movements of your physical body; there are periods in which you are pain-free and periods in which you are in great pain (again, seemingly random). I can see that you've already become skeptical that there is a physical answer to your pain. This is a good start.
If you haven't already, start reading one of sarno's books (I recommend Mindbody Prescription first, but if you already have another, that's ok).
You've already exhausted the possible physical origins of your pain, so it's time to start thinking emotional and psychological. Since you've had such a long history of pain, go back and start exploring your pain history in a different light. Have the bouts of pain corresponded to any particularly stressful times in your life (significant life changes, particular situations, events, people, that may have triggered an emotional reaction in the form of pain, etc.)? The more you can link up your past (and current) experiences to emotional/psychological triggers, the more clear it will become that your pain does NOT have a physical basis. Once you have made all these links, you will more easily spot new emotional pains when they occur, and will in turn be able to more quickly resolve the pain.
Turning towards the emotional side of things is unusual and difficult for most people, because our culture has been trained to bury our feelings (don't let anyone know you're hurting!) and carry on like everything was peaches and cream. We've done it so much for so long--we've become so disconnected from our emotions--that our first reaction (to TMS or any mindbody connection) is: "emotional issues couldn't possibly be the problem with me; other than the pain, my life is happy and fine; there's nothing that I'm angry or sad about." But as we explore deeper, we find we've been neglecting our emotions at a price.
Good luck with your recovery. You've come to the right place.
ss |
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