| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cricketslayer |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 17:44:11
I'm almost embarassed to write about this, but I need the advice of the board. I've been battling pain in my neck, back, shoulders and head for almost 8 years. It doesn't prevent me from doing anything--even working out--however, the pain is sometimes too much to bear.
The odd thing about it is that really comes on when I put my shirt on, as bizzare as that sounds. Once I take off my shirt and get ready for bed, the pain begins to subside gradually and I'm usually fine.
I've read all of the books, and I've recently begun journaling. My two primary problems are forcing myself to think psychologically when I'm in a lot of pain and obsessing about how to get better, if I'm doing enough, etc.
I'm seeing a psychotherapist, and although she tends to understand mind-body pain very well, she did suggest that that maybe my skin has developed some sort of sensitivity that could be recitified through medication.
The evidence against this is that the pain moves around quite a bit and that I'm not bothered by massage or bedsheets when I sleep or anything else that touches the same areas.
But when I put on my shirt, it's not long before everything starts up again. Is there something to this, or is my brain really trying to fool me?
If anyone can provide some insight here, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you.
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| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Cricketslayer |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:45:06
Hi guys,
Yes, I've tried it, and I find that my pain subsides greatly. That's why I was curious as to whether it was Pavlovian conditioning or a skin sensitivity issue of some sort. |
| alexis |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 07:11:53
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Did you ever consider walking around shirtless? Well, maybe that is not the best advice I have ever given, but read about what Dr. Sarno says about conditioning in his books.
I've got to agree. Silly though it sounds I would actually take a nice weekend day to close the blinds and go shirtless. Seems like the best place to start with experimentation. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 07:06:51
quote:
Originally posted by Cricketslayer
The odd thing about it is that really comes on when I put my shirt on, as bizzare as that sounds. Once I take off my shirt and get ready for bed, the pain begins to subside gradually and I'm usually fine.
Did you ever consider walking around shirtless? Well, maybe that is not the best advice I have ever given, but read about what Dr. Sarno says about conditioning in his books. It is the brain's strategy to make you think that you have a physical problem. It is quite effecitive and is something which I too struggle with on a daily basis. I have to talk to myself at time and tell myself the pain is due to TMS and not to the movements I am making.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
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| Cricketslayer |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 16:20:53
I appreciate the responses.
The more I read and the more I listen, the more I am realizing that is probably is, in fact, conditioning. It's just so bizarre compared to bending over or running or something that seems more logical.
I've really made more of an effort to journal on a regular basis and do a better job of thinking phychological, but in turn, the pain has shot up through the roof, which has led to my current doubts. Perhaps it's just my brain fighting me, and man, it's a helluva fight.
Anyway, I truly appreciate the responses. Thank you. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 13:39:51
Hi Cricketslayer,
I like your screen name. My son used to have a big lizard and we raised crickets for it to eat.
The Pavlovian conditioning Tom mentioned refers to the experiment of Pavlov, who rang a bell each time he fed his dog, so that the dog became conditioned to expect food at the sound of the bell. Whenever the bell was rung, the dog would begin to salivate in expectation of food, whether it was really feeding time or not. I recently saw the power of conditioning in my elderly dog, who has now passed on. He had stopped eating nearly everything, particularly his dry food, which we served to him in a dish in his doghouse, yet whenever he was outside and I opened the back door, he'd run to his dog house and stand over the dish expectantly, even though it was still full of food from the last time he'd run in there. I could throw the food out and put fresh in, but he still wouldn't eat it, he was just acting on the conditioning that if I came out the back door it was time to ask for food, whether he really wanted to eat it or not.
I find that certain expectations become automatic for me and can be hard to overcome once they've become an automatic reaction of my unconscious mind. We can learn to expect pain from a certain action and it will occur when we do that action, whether there is a real reason for the pain or not. All of our senses are functions of the autonomic brain, so once the brain becomes conditioned to expect pain associated with some action, it can sometimes take quite a bit of conscious effort to break that conditioning. It's not necessarily a straight course from conditioning to non-conditioning, we can make some progress at stopping the pain and then find ourselves backsliding a bit, so we have to keep at it.
What you're describing certainly sounds like a conditioned response. For some reason your unconscious brain is associated the shirt with something that leads you to feel pain. It may not be the shirt itself, that's important, but what the action of putting it on represents, like having to go to a job you aren't happy with or some other activity that you do each day after getting dressed.
You might find it useful to do a search on the word conditioning and read some of the experiences others have had with overcoming the unconscious brain's expectations.
Hope you'll soon conquer it. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 19:29:14
quote:
Originally posted by Cricketslayer
quote:
Sounds like Pavlovian conditioning, the reason for which may be long forgotten.
What do you mean by that, Tom? I'm a bit confused.
***
See pages 127 & 138 of THE DIVIDED MIND for an explanation of Pavlovian conditioning and TMS. It may be at some point you began associating putting on your shirt with something unpleasant like having to get dressed and going to school or work. You may be over that but your unconscious and your skin is having a TMS reaction associtated with the past conditoning. |
| Cricketslayer |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 18:12:51
quote:
Sounds like Pavlovian conditioning, the reason for which may be long forgotten.
What do you mean by that, Tom? I'm a bit confused. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 18:00:33
quote:
Originally posted by Cricketslayer
The odd thing about it is that really comes on when I put my shirt on,...
Once I take off my shirt and get ready for bed, the pain begins to subside gradually and I'm usually fine...
I'm not bothered by massage or bedsheets when I sleep or anything else that touches the same areas...
But when I put on my shirt, it's not long before everything starts up again.
Sounds like Pavlovian conditioning, the reason for which may be long forgotten. |
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