| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 14:47:42
I had suffered from widely varying back pain for approx. 6-7 years before it eventually became a 24x7 pain up and down my entire back. I tried chiropractors, physical therapy, exercises, painkillers, cortizone shots, DRX9000 sessions (Spinal Decompression), I quit smoking, and had every test done that's possible with basically no results. My MRI showed a few minor bulging discs throughout my back and some not-abnormal degenerative disc disease.
I learned about TMS about 6 months ago when I read Healing Back Pain. 50 pages into Healing Back Pain my pain subsided nearly 50%. That was all the proof I needed so I then read The Mindbody Prescription and The Divided Mind. Since I live close to NYC I met with Dr. Sarno and he diagnosed me with TMS (duh).
I have read all the books (once), definitely accepted the diagnosis, am basically completely off painkillers, have basically no movement or activity restriction, and am now in psychotherapy with a social worker who works with a neurologist in the area practicing TMS principles. Each week we try to dig a little deeper into my childhood and current life to determine the causes of my repressed anger/rage which is of course the right course of action to treat the TMS problem. I am not wildley impressed with the social worker as I think she has her doubts as to just how many abnormal pain and symptoms TMS can cause but she helps with the basic analysis techniques I need. Someone who accepts TMS and is willing to treat it is better than someone who discounts it from the start in my opinion.
The problem is that I still have nearly constant back pain which travels up and down my back but it has been reduced to about 5-10% of what it was at it's worst and has not improved much at all in the last 3 months or so. Great news for me and I'm very glad to have my life back, but my mind is still constantly on my back because there is still *something* there all the time, be it a slight twinge of pain, or a small soreness, a very light tingling, or an onset of more severe pain that goes away rather quickly (this is quite rare) - it's always something to remind/distract me and as a result I am not able to completely rid myself of the pain and REALLY get my life back 100%.
If I have 100% totally accepted that nothing is physically wrong with me, I agree 100% with Sarno's ideas, I have ceased physical activity to "treat" the back pain, I have read all the books, I am in psychotherapy and have identified many sources of anger/rage from my past and present, then how the heck do I finally defeat this thing instead of *mostly* beating it away? I feel like I am stuck in a rut and have exhausted the treatment options that most people acheive 100% pain relief with.
I am willing to do what it takes to truly win this battle and live a life where I feel NOTHING in my back 24 hours per day as I was able to as recently as 2 years ago but am out of options here and need some advise. I have not called Sarno for a follow-up but I imagine he'll simply suggest all the things I have already tried.
How the heck do I kill this last reminisce of remaining distraction via pain and get my back completely off my mind?  |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 13:39:08
quote:
Originally posted by h2oskier25
If you want my two cents, its this. I sort of healed like you did, lots of progress at first, and then a convenient "lingering" of just enough pain and weakness so that I doubted that I could take on full activity in every way.
I have to say, I think it was conditioning. I was conditioned not to look at my life, my situation, and really question the happiness I was (or wasn't) getting out of life. The whole thing seemed to big to face.
I think that is part of it - I made so much progress and 100% accepted the TMS diagnosis but I was hoping that enough since Sarno says that is all 80%+ of people need to be completely cured of pain. Then it didn't completely subside so I moved onto the Psychotherapy. I think I am at the point where I need to spend the time alone, with myself, working through my own thoughts to get my brain reprogrammed to thinking about life, happyness, inner peace, etc. instead of any pain or TMS symptoms that may be thrown my way.
I lived the last few years under the near complete control of the pain and it's affects on my life and reversing that just because you want to isn't as easy as "think of something else" or "block it out". Conditioning happens on it's own in the unconscious... re-conditioning is a conscious effort you have to stick with constantly until you reverse the trend yourself. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 10:35:18
"Is it necessary to block out thinking about the pain, or should I just acknowledge what role the pain is playing (distraction) without trying to "block it out?" Perplexing questions with no clear answers indeed."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't block out thinking about the pain since it is coming from your unconscious and by definition not under your conscious control.
Pain has an important purpose to warn you to pay attention to something. In TMS's case to pay attention to something other than emotional issues that may trigger anti-social behavior.
The pain is doing the job of the unconscious, to distract you from the emotional pain. Can't blame it for doing the job it was designed to do.
The strategy is to switch your thinking from the physical pain to the emotional pain until the unconscious is satisfied that it's strategy is no longer required to maintain your homeostasis. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 10:25:48
Hi Karma,
If you want my two cents, its this. I sort of healed like you did, lots of progress at first, and then a convenient "lingering" of just enough pain and weakness so that I doubted that I could take on full activity in every way.
I have to say, I think it was conditioning. I was conditioned not to look at my life, my situation, and really question the happiness I was (or wasn't) getting out of life. The whole thing seemed to big to face.
Maybe you've got some big life issue hanging about that your mind is keeping you from facing.
You know. You sound familiar. Do I know you . . . .
Beth |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 10:14:29
From Dr. John Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
Chapter Ten: "A Family Doctor's Experience With Mindbody Medicine"
by Marc Soper, M.D.
Page 344:
"...the unconscious mind is the site of repressed and suppressed emotions. It is where the reservoir of rage lurks...I think it provides a compelling image for the origins of pain.
To summarize: Dr. Sarno has identified three potential sources for this rage in the unconscious. In each person the quantity from each source will vary. (emphasis tt)
1. Stresses and strains of daily life
2. The residue of anger from infancy and childhood
3. Internal conflict (self-imposed pressure--the clash of the id
and the superego; it also comes from perfectionsit and goodist
traits)
Dr. Sopher's website is www.themindbodysyndrome.com
|
| Karma |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 09:23:54
He told me that on my initial phone conversation before I went to his NYC office as I stated I didn't know where to begin searching into my past for the cause of the anger/rage. He stated that it's more personality and current life situation-based (the rage that finally overflows the resevoir and requires a TMS distraction).
I worry about "blocking" anything out these days because isn't that just repressing more stuff? Catch-22 indeed... |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:34:43
quote:
Originally posted by Karma
Sarno says that your current life issues and personality are far greater fuel for TMS than issues from your youth.
Karma,
Can you provide me the source where Sarno says this? I must have missed it. Thanks.
You have good insight into waht is taking place when you write: "I even think that the pain remains and is so constant BECAUSE I am still thinking about it and can't block out those thoughts - almost like the fact that my mind is so programmed to think about the pain that continuing to even think about it is actually causing it to remain."
This resonates with me also. It seems to me that I am almost slipping in some way if I don't think of the pain. Is it necessary to block out thinking about the pain, or should I just acknowledge what role the pain is playing (distraction) without trying to "block it out?" Perplexing questions with no clear answers indeed.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:31:56
During the days when I was trying to fix a physical problem that didn't exist, "the rack" sounded like a great idea and made a lot of sense for "bad discs". It even has a nice little TV to watch DVDs on while you're being tortured!
But the "doctor" was a money grubbing SOB that could care less who got better or didn't change at all as long as he got the insurance money. Quite typical really and very sad... Didn't make any change for me whatsoever (shocked aren't you?) ;) |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:27:08
Styder - Good point, I would say your insight is likely correct since I am a through the roof Type A personality and have all the common TMS personality traits including perfectionism. I may be unconsciously angry at the fact that I can't find "the answer" and though I know it is likely not just 1 thing - I wish there was more I could do. Sarno says that your current life issues and personality are far greater fuel for TMS than issues from your youth.
I think I just to push for more constant attention to the emotional side of things instead of harping on the fact that some pain remains. It's a VERY hard task to switch my mind pattern 180 degrees for more than 30 seconds before it goes back to what it wants to concentrate on. I even think that the pain remains and is so constant BECAUSE I am still thinking about it and can't block out those thoughts - almost like the fact that my mind is so programmed to think about the pain that continuing to even think about it is actually causing it to remain. |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 22:52:12
DRX9000 sessions
I just love the names of these traction machines. I guess 9000 is x10 mo betta than 900 !
My gosh, for crying out loud, just take a look at this little beastie...
http://www.axiomworldwide.com/IMAGES/DRX9000_lg.gif
...another fav is the VAX-D...
http://www.handsoncare.net/pics/vax-d/vax-d2ss.jpg
...this poor guy is on the rack about to get his arms ripped off (while the cutie technician empties his wallet).
Stay clear of this nonsense. Take care, -Stryder |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 22:44:19
Karma said: "I need to find the source of what's pissing off my brain."
Why?
Maybe not. You are angry about not finding "the answer". There may or may not be one. Sometimes the problem is an accumulation of 10's or 100's of small things, not one "big event" that "ruined" your life.
Perfectionists always want to know "the cause" (so they can not go there again). Knowing can become an obsession, and frustration and anger can be the result if the cause is not found.
Maybe take it down a notch and do some fun activity you like to do, and try to do something other than pursue the beast. Do something constructive as a distraction from / instead of the pursuit.
Take care, -Stryder |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 19:09:48
Thanks for the reply Karma. The terminology for the different types of psychology is not my strong suit. If some of your issues are deeply rooted, 3-4 sessions is not enough. When I had a deep depression, it took 6 months, of twice weekly sessions, to get through my situation. I don't think you sound as bad off as I was psychologicaly, but 3-4 sessions is not very many for a therapist to acquaint themself with your history. I would be more concerned with you not feeling a raport with your therapist. I would discuss that with Dr. Ziggles.
It sounds like you've made great progress and returned to productivity and normal activity. Celebrate that! You may have reached a plateau and need some more time to achieve that last 10%.
Good Luck! |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 18:32:27
1) Yeah I will do that shortly - I owe myself at least that much. I worry that his response will simply be "keep with the program" since I've tried basically all his treatment suggestions. I don't doubt him but I'd be surprised if he had something for me to try he hasn't documented in 1 of the 3 books already.
2) Yes I have seen Dr Ziggles (great guy) and his therapist is who I am working with.
3) I have only been to see her 3-4 times thus far. As an example of her doubts about TMS - during my last visit I asked "When I first wake up in the morning, I notice that my pain always seems to be there and gets slightly better shortly thereafter - what could that mean?" Her response was "Do you have a good mattress?" Um yes, a $3000 Tempurpedic I wasted a bunch of money on, that is definitely NOT the problem!!!
4) My post was to give examples of all the crap I tried to work on from a physical standpoint that did absolutely nothing and now much of a 180 turnaround the TMS concept made to me. I obviously still have a ton of emotional issues to work through (as everyone does once they start thinking about it), my problem is that identifying all of them doesn't seem to be enough. There's hardly any path to take to FIX the source of the anger/rage that is buried inside. I have a list of nearly 100 things that anger me today and from my past/youth but that doesn't seem to be enough.
My main problem at this point is that while my pain is down to nearly nothing it is still *something* and working well enough that when I feel the pain it takes over my thinking. I can try to move my thoughts onto other things but I always end up back at the frustration of that *something* still being there and owning my thought patterns.
Guess these are my next steps...
Sarno follow-up
More journaling
Read the books again
Possibly consider another therapist (no other TMS options around here though)
I KNOW I can beat this thing given how far I have come in 6 months, but the doubts as to whether I'll get back to the days where I would NEVER think of my back at all are still creeping up regardless given the wall I seem to have hit the last 3 months without making any real progress on that last 5-10%.
Thanks folks |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 18:13:24
Some suggestions:
1) Call Dr. Sarno and talk to him about your situtation. From what I
understand that is what he would want you to do.
2) Have you seen Dr. Ziggles? He mentioned he
was in your area, and had a therapist he works with.
3) If you think your therapist has doubts about TMS I would think
those doubts would transfer to you. Have you discussed this with your
therapist? Do you feel comfortable discussing this with your
therapist?
4) Your post deals entirely with the phsyical. Are there still
emotional issues going on such as daily life pressures? |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 16:24:55
I too seem have reached a certain level and then am having difficulties going further, which is quite frustrating.
I stopped going to my pyschotherapist quite some time ago as we were not getting anywhere at all. In addition, the financial expense is too overwhelming for me. Although she was receptive to TMS and read the material I loaned her, she was at times still suggesting physical modalities. I just could not see where she was taking me and I got the impression she did not know what to do with me either. I don't think she was all that disappointed when I stopped seeing her.
I wish I could offer you advice, and this is coming from someone who has dispenced a fair amount of advice on this forum (goodist, approval seeking self). I do know, however, that when I think about the physical symptoms they become even worse and it is wise, as much as is humanly possible, not to think of the pain and do something else to get your mind off it for awhile. Otherwise you will feel your life is passing you by and you begin to tell yourself that you are not making any progress at all. And that is just another lie from your brain.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Karma |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 15:53:11
Meaning I am not doing physical therapy stuff trying to "repair" my back since there is nothing to repair. If anything, I am stretching, bending, twisting to extremes when I have a slight increase in pain to continue to "prove" to my brain that there is nothing physically wrong with my back where as I used to be afraid to lean over the sink to brush my teeth without cringing in pain. I am not afraid of any physical activity these days so becoming more limber and doing things like palming the floor with my knees locked (Yoga position) is a way of saying "F you brain, there is nothing wrong with my back." Guess I should stop that at this point since I don't need convincing anymore - I need to find the source of what's pissing off my brain. I just don't know what else to do.
Guess I should read the books again as a next step. |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 15:44:05
Karma said: "...I agree 100% with Sarno's ideas, I have ceased physical activity to "treat" the back pain,,,"
Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying. Is this true? Are you totally inactive? If so, you will need to gradually return to normal activity. We're not talking about going out and running 5 miles the first day, but rather a gradual, slow return to normal activity. Otherwise TMS will keep you hostage.
Also, don't let the books fool you. It can take some people months to be completely healed. The key is, there is no timetable, complete recovery takes as long as it takes. We've all been in your shoes, and many have made it to the finish line. Keep re-reading the books, too.
Lastly, fight TMS, but don't fight the pain. Let it hurt, accept it, free your anger that your harbor with reagards to the pain. Its a trap TMS has laid out for you. Accept the pain and you will get there.
Take care, -Stryder
|
|
|
