| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dunjenkeepa |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 09:41:23
Hi everyone, found this website a few weeks ago and thought I'd post my story so far and hopefully get some encouragement and advice.
I'm 33 and I work as a computer programmer. I started about 4 years ago (in hindsight - about 3 months after a close friend had just given up his job due to "RSI") with tingling in my right hand and immedietely thought RSI!! I quickly adopted a new working strategy - breaks, regular stretching, limiting my time on computer in the hope it would go away - it didn't and after about 3 to 4 months I developed discomfort in wrist. I visited my GP who signed me off for 10 days to rest but it did no good. I started using my left hand for mousework and quickly developed the same symptoms, so started using keyboard shortcuts and quickly started getting discomfort when typing as well! Over the next two years the discomfort spread up my right arm, into the shoulder and then onto my upper back and even upper chest and neck - lots of aching, tingling, burning etc. and I have tried everything - anti-inflammatory drugs , pain killers, physiotherapy , osteopathy, Both of these said my problems were posture related and if I corrected that I would be fine. Endless attempts to sit properly just made it worse so I gave up and tried the following over a period of about 18 months I guess (not all together!): shiatsu, accupuncture, chiropractice, yoga, tai chi, frequent normal massage, trigger point massage, remedial massage, and probably other stuff I've forgotten, none of which had much effect at all except to empty my wallet. The best was shiatsu - the woman said I had a lot of trapped energy in my chest, and whilst I felt great straight after the session it didn't last long and I had to stop going for financial reasons.
By this time I had reduced computer use massiveley but the symptoms only got worse, and worse (almost inversely proportional to the amount of computer use) to the point where for at least the last two years, the discomfort in my back and chest(aching/ burning/ soreness) is there all the time and computer use brings on tingling / burning in my arms. At "rest" , on a scale of 1 to 10, I would say my discomfort level is 2/10. Using a computer 8/10 which gradually subsides back to 2/10 over a few hours. I have felt for a long time that the "epi-centre" of the pain is in my chest, around my upper spine, when the pain is at 2/10, the soreness is always at that epi-centre, and I have been told by most people who've examined me that my back muscles are in spasm constantly.
During this time I was still under various GP's at my surgery ( lots of blank faces / shrugged shoulders!) and had nerve tests to test for carpal tunnel syndrome ( all normal) , x-rays (normal) was referred to a rheumatologist and had blood and urine tests to test for things like arthritis etc. All tests and exams were normal. I have since seen the rhuematologist 3 times - the last a few months ago. The conclusion - stress related on my first visit, and 2 further "check ups" to see if I was any better didn't throw any light on the subject. He told me to go back to my GP if symptoms get "any worse". Thanks for that.
About 8 months ago I found John Sarno's books and a couple of things struck me straight away and made me think I might have TMS. I am a worrier for one thing, always have been. The pain almost goes completely when I shower or bath, but then comes back. I wrote down all my anxieties both past and present and was shocked at how many there were! Most I think are resolved, but recently in the past 4 years we've had 3 unexpected deaths in the family, and my sister has had fertility issues for the past four years which are still unresolved and a big cause of worry for me. Also, sometimes ( in fact quite frequently) the pain is at 8/10 without me going near the computer and very very very occasionally it is 2/10 when using a computer (not often though). Other things that struck me are that I can do DIY all day, hammering, sawing, screwdrivering, etc and the pain stays at 2/10. Also, people's suggestions that the next stage is "blah blah" . . . . seem to have come true, ie. the chiropractor said the next stage of this was neck pain - low and behold a few weeks later I've got neckache to go with my ever increasing list of ailments. Unforunately his suggestion that he would cure me in 3 months was somewhat wrong. Also, massage relieves the symptoms briefly in the muscles - I guess promoting bloodflow, but again, the effect doesn't last long. And yes, I think and worry about the pain constantly - the pain is my BIGGEST anxiety of all.
At this time however, I wasn't really convinced of the TMS theory and thought there must be something wrong with me so didn't really put any methods into practice and I knew I was getting made redundant and planned to take six months off. Also, I'd thought I'd found my solution so many times with all the treatment I have had in the past, and so many dissapointments really has an effect on positive thinking.
I thought six months off would do the trick but the pain was up and down between 2/10 and 8/10 throughout the 6 months even though I only used my computer briefly each day (1 hour max), and I have now just started a new computer job and the discomfort is no better so I thought enough is enough started thinking of TMS again and luckily found this forum straight away and have been really concentrating on TMS and on looking inward and focusing on my anxieties and ignoring the pain. I would say I'm 95% convinced my "condition" is TMS - I'm only two weeks in and I refuse to be beaten by this, there is absolutely no way I can give up my job, even if I wanted to, but the biggest issue I have is the doubt about TMS - everyone says you have to believe it 100% to get better, I find I am really positive when the pain is 2/10 but at work when the pain is 8/10 as it is most days I find it difficult to say the least and end up really depressed!
Sorry about the long post and I hope it makes (chronological) sense. Does this sound familiar ? Any advice and support, possible strategies that might help would be most welcome. It's great to read success stories, I just hope I can get there!
(I typed this by the way - pain now at 8/10)
Regards |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 10:59:43
Thanks for the updates, dunjenkeepa.
Keep at it - I look forward to reading that you've completely defeated the pain. But you've got over the biggest hurdle in that it's not stopping you from working. Good for you!
Hilary N |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 15:30:16
djk, I had a harder time deconditioning at work, too. That was where I used the rewards, per Fred Amir, to help out. It sounds like you are on the right track with everything. Best to you in your recovery.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 10:23:14
DungeonKeeper,
I must say, that I read your first post for the first time today, and it is so obvious you are a TMS personality, because this long disertation doesn't contain a single spelling error !! All that pain and not one error. You are a perfectionist indeed.
Keep up the good work, and remember, don't let obsessively working on TMS replace the TMS.
Perhaps there is something big in your life you are not facing.
Beth |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:37:31
quote:
Originally posted by dunjenkeepa
I feel that working through the pain might be the key to 100% success.
Yes, and keep telling yourself over and over again that the pain is NOT due to working on a keyboard or sitting for long hours, but it is due to TMS, the purpose of which is to distract you from repressed emotions. These emotions are generated in the unconscious mind in response to past trauma, current stressors and - most importantly- personality traits. If you have pain in the course of an activity it is your brain's way of making you believe you have a physical problem and that the pain is due to your physical activity. Keep talking to your brain no matter how foolish it seems.
Best wishes.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
| dunjenkeepa |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:22:39
Latest update. I would say I'm a fair bit better - at least "some" of the time. Still get aching / burning / tingling hands, and upper back neck aching but it doesn't seem quite as bad as 12 -18 months ago. In fact, I am using a keyboard / mouse more than ever but the pain hasn't increased as maybe I expected it might. I feel that working through the pain might be the key to 100% success.
What was interesting was what happened earlier this year when my wife fell ill - turns out she had a benign mass which was successfully removed - but that was after months of tests / scans / pain etc. The whole time was awful, and traumatic, but my "pain" symptoms virtually disappeared altogether during this time!! As I had no option but to "face" the fear - my mind obviously had no need to create a distraction. Even with 12 hours computer use 3 days a week. Now that she's better the pain has slowly "crept" back in but now that I know about TMS, I'm not worried, if anything it is all just further evidence for me.
Also, I have given up most of my avoidance tactics - I started using a gamepad instead of a mouse at home - and a graphics tablet for handwriting recognition / mouse replacement / voice recognition to replace typing etc. I am now back playing computer games with mouse and keyboard with little ill effect, and have just given up the graphics tablet (the pen broke) and started with a mouse again at work - not so much success here - I can use a mouse to play games but using a mouse at work causes discomfort !! Early days though on that one. Will get there yet.
Thanks all.
|
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 17:02:14
Sorry to hear your pain is not any better. On the other hand, it's not any worse, either. That pretty much contradicts the RSI concept which states the pain will get worse and worse.
You might consider a structured journal that prompts you with questions to explore, like the one that Schechter publishes (I don't have any agenda for that one, but it was helpful to me). There's also Kelvin's site at http://www.etex.net/kelving/. I don't know what you have been doing as far as exploring your emotions, but it may be something you need to do regularly for a while. Try to think about things that cause you stress, or things that possibly a child inside of you (the unconscious) would feel are stressful. This can include lots of regular life behavior (chores, family obligations, etc.) and even positive experiences that can bring high expectations. Be open to the possibility that something might be bothering you even if on the surface it seems it is not. Think about times when you were angry or sad or anxious recently. Try to connect these times to a larger trend or experience.
You might also experiment with explicit deconditioning. Tell yourself you'll give yourself a reward (something you like to do or eat or experience) if you can go without pain for even a few minutes. Start with tiny amounts and gradually increase the time. Fred Amir's book (Rapid Recovery from Back and Neck Pain) has more about this.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| carbar |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 14:56:40
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
My whole life became dominated by this, to the point of giving up work. Depression set in - all I could see was a life of disability and misery ahead.
But it didn't turn out like that at all. I got better - little by little - no ovenight miracle.
Take heart - your recovery has started!
Worth seconding, Anne! Understanding this is truly a journey and and it sounds like you've got a good attitude at the start. I had RSI pain in both arms for 7 years, trying various medical remedies on and off, and I felt hope and possibilty shrink after each passing year until I picked up a Sarno book when I was working at a bookstore and I finally, finally got it! I've been pain free for a year and half now.
It sounds like you've got quite a reading list already, but the book Full Catastrophe Living by Jon-Kabat Zinn absolutely made a great companion to the Mindbody Perscription by Sarno, so I'd like to recommend that. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 09:34:31
Welcome DJK,
I would label your post a "successstory" right from the git-go. You exhibit the intelegence and self-circumspection of those who have posted here and gotten better in a reasonable time frame. I am not familiar with the people you mention that have an "instant" TMS epiphinany cure. I think it's a trick the gremlin plays on our mind to make us feel that our pain is unique and therefore less amenable to the TMS "cure".
Your post was not overly long. Your thought that it was is a typical twinge of the the UNIVERSAL inferiority complex presenting itself. This complex is one of the fundamental elements of our psyches that fuels UNIVERSAL TMS. If you havn't had a chance to read the excerpts I have copied from THE DIVIDED MIND, I suggest you do so and you should find a post about the topic. How can we NOT feel inferior in relationship to the universe, the black-holes beyond it, and the black-holes autonomicly created by our unconsciouses.
In regards to key-boarding, the GOOD DOCTOR recounts that people typed all day long on MANUAL typewriters for a hundred years without any epedemic of RSI! A trick the TMS gremlin plays on TMS'ers, can cause us to gloss over facts like that, which address OUR specific symptom. Or, we feel that our symptom does not get enough attention in the books and that back-pain is written more about. That's why it is so important to read TMS books slowly with as much attention as can be musterd, word by word.
As long as the symptoms remain a problem, continue the RX course of TMS "knowledge penicilin"!
Then sleep on it allowing it to be absorbed by the unconscious on a cellular level.
The reason the shiatsu lady made you feel better, was probably more due to her words resonating with you rather than the treatment--it's not the treatment that soothes the pain, if it's TMS--it's the practitoner--in this case that's you. Doctors and some body-workers have mastered the ablilty to capture our faith through delievery of the placebo and the nocebo effects. The placebo effect is good for about a 30% instant cure, but it won't sustain. The TMS "cure" is good for 100% relief and can be relied on for future health.
The deaths in your family and your concern for your sister's fertility issues are high on the list of TMS life-cycle dis-ease causing pressures. See the Holmes-Rahe list and pick out the ones that are creating your life-cycle pressures. Family and relationship issues rank high on the list of TMS creating pressures.
I havn't read the several books you have mentioned but have heard them mentioned here along with many other non-TMS specific self-help books. I'm sure they are good books, but, my advice is, as long as the TMS gremlin controls YOU, you should learn the rules of the TMS game from the TMS experts: Dr. Sarno, Dr. Sopher and Dr. Brady and those who have dealt with it on an everyday basis for many years. Reading the other books may (or may not be) distractions from learning the fundamentals of the TMS game.
In closing, you have done things right: lurked the board, posted a good first post chronicling the structural treatments that have given you only temoporary relief and begun to see the light of day, that the problem might be within us Pogo. Now, give it some time to sink in--afterall, it took your mind a long time to create the psychological dynamic that creates your TMS psychosmatic pain-- perhaps your whole life--it may take a little time to change your conditioned thinking patterns.
ANY QUESTIONS?
Good Luck!
tt
|
| Dave |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 08:17:21
You've made the important first step, and that's something most people in this world cannot do.
Re-read Dr. Sarno's book and focus on the treatment chapter. While acceptance of the diagnosis is critical, it is equally important to do the work. It is impossible to know repressed emotions, but at the same time, it's important to go deeper than the emotions on the surface that you feel. You can't just say "I'm mad at my boss." You have to say "I'm mad at my boss because he doesn't give me enough recognition for my hard work." Then follow those emotions deeper. Why is recognition so important to you? What happened in your past that molded this personality trait in you? Etc.
That's just an example but the idea is to feel the emotions you can feel, at the time they occur, and then "open up" and see if you can follow those emotions deeper to learn more about why you are the way you are. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 06:25:50
Are you also journaling regarding the categories outlined in the Psychology section of Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain? Journaling is important as it helps your focus your thoughts. That 5% doubt also has to be expunged. Did you read this?
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html
*******
Sarno-ize it!
|
| dunjenkeepa |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 05:53:41
Just an update - been continuing in my new job - now doing 3 x 12 hour days and the pain is . . . . just the same! Keep telling myself that nothing is physically wrong and tell my brain to send blood to my muscles which are the worst affected, and the route cause of the discomfort I feel. Keep thinking about past emotions that could be repressed ( still have difficulty with that, how do I know if they are repressed ? ). Still have hope that I can get past this !! |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 15:50:51
Thanks for the responce.
Don't be so quick to dismiss childhood upbringing / incidents. Sarno says many with TMS say they had a good childhood but on closer inspection the story is quite different. It can be quite subtle and not just something as dramatic as physical abuse or sexual abuse. The same can be said for those who insist that family life is super, but again on closer inspection there are things that are taking place which generate unconscious rage. Read the pyschology sections of Dr. Sarno's books on this crucial point, and don't be quick to dismiss anything. You can be unconsciously angry towards those you love the most, but this feeling is so repressed that it is difficult to come to terms with or recognize.
With regards to your job, are you driven to excel and do a good job? Do you crave recognition? How well do you take criticsm? How is yiur relationship with your co-workers / boss? All this can point to personality traits which generate inner, unconcious rage.
Best wishes and please do keep us posted.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| dunjenkeepa |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 12:21:50
thanks for all your support and kindness! glad I posted now. in reply to shawnsmith, actually I love my job as a programmer - it's far more involved for me than just endlessly tapping into a computer - i work in the print industry now and I develop customer applications - every job is differnt and I get to travel and meet each customer and discuss requirements and have a big say in how each "project" develops. I'm more of an analyst than a programmer really.
Anyhow, current stresses are what I mentioned really - my childhood was very happy and still have a great relationship with my family and my wife's family as well, but as I said, when I wrote all my anxieties down past and present I was shocked. I am just getting to grips with sarno and TMS really - the biggest breakthrough is my attitude really - I feel lifted out of the despair I was in, and for the first time have thought about being pain free - I could not do that before I found TMS. A long way to go though, I'm only two weeks in really and haven't really noticed much improvement pain wise - but am really trying to not focus on the pain - difficult though when the pain has been a "companion" for 3 or 4 years! I read of people who have lost the pain instantly but for me, the pain seems to be in a timeframe of its own - a bit like a coal fire - takes ages to die down, and sometimes when I am anxious, the pain is low but comes on really bad in a day or two, even though at that time I my anxiety levels are lower, or seemingly lower perhaps. I find it difficult to associate current anxieties with the pain as I cannot really see an obvious link.
As recommended by somebody I'm currently reading Brandon Bays "The Journey" which I read in the bath and come out almost pain free! HOwever brief it lasts it shows it is possible. I have also bought Facing the Fire by John Lee so looking forward to reading that.
And thanks for the suggestions for further internet reading - will definitely check it all out and absorb it and keep posting.
Thanks
DK
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 11:37:48
Your story is pretty similar to mine in some ways. Particularly, you tried everything and it was at best a temporary help. That's when it's easiest to get into TMS in a way, because there's really not much other option.
I remember when I first started with TMS methods I would get relapses and I would panic a bit because the pain was bad again and oh my god it wasn't working. But relapses are normal and don't mean it's not working. You can get through it. Maybe you could try having a plan for when the pain is bad, so you can talk yourself through it, like:
1) Stop activity temporarily.
2) Remind yourself that you are not harming yourself and that as time passes you will get this under your control.
3) Sit and think or write in a journal or dictate to a tape recorder (or something like that) thoughts about unconscious rage and your life pressures and such. (Even just for a few mins if you are busy.)
4) Do breathing or relaxation just to clear out your system a bit and help you feel better before you go back into things.
Have you checked out
http://conquerrsi.com/
and
http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/
?
They are full of useful thoughts, links, and suggestions especially helpfus for TMS that manifests as RSI.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 11:08:50
It appears to me that there is some kind of connection between being a programmer and the onset of TMS. I guess setting in a cubicle all day, tapping on a keyboard and staring mindlessly at a computer screen must be somewhat enraging. All those years of education and this it waht it comes to. I mean, where is the payoff for such kinds of work?
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| DitaH |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 07:51:01
hi there - your story sounds similar to mine - I am also a programmer aged 33. Since I've been reading Sarno (HBP, TMP), journaling and listening to my emotions I've got a whole lot better! Give it a good try, take note of when the pain is worse and what you are thinking at the time etc.... good luck! |
| n/a |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 03:37:57
Read your story with interest, Dunjenkeepa. Pain is your biggest anxiety - I can relate to that. It sounds like you are on the same merry-go-round I was on a couple of years ago. I became so overvigilant of every twinge and ache, in my case, in the lower back area. My brain pounced on said twinge - anxiety set in - pain escalated - anxiety turned to fear - pain notched up more.
My whole life became dominated by this, to the point of giving up work. Depression set in - all I could see was a life of disability and misery ahead.
But it didn't turn out like that at all. I got better - little by little - no ovenight miracle.
Take heart - your recovery has started! |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 19:47:42
Welcome to the forum dunjenkeepa
I suggest that you continue the regular reading of Dr. Sarno's work, focusing especially on the psychology and treatment sections. Pay close attention to those portions that resonate with you personally.
You went into great detail about your physical symptoms, which is good for a newbie, but now it would be good to focus on those areas, as adressed in Dr. Sarno's psychology sections, and relate them back to who you are as a person. Tell us a bit more about your childhood, your personality characteristics and the current stressors in your life (I know you mentioned some of them). It is also helpful for many to keep a daily journal. Sometimes I journal on this board with a view to getting feedback, which sometimes can be quite helpful.
Don't get discouraged as there are ups and downs in the recovery process, but if you remain persistent and don't get hung up on the time it takes to recover you will find yourself making progress.
Keep us posted and continue to share with us.
Shawn
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Woodchuck |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 19:12:51
quote:
Originally posted by dunjenkeepa
Hi everyone, found this website a few weeks ago and thought I'd post my story so far and hopefully get some encouragement and advice.
Hi dunjenkeepa,
I am relatively new to the forum as well as new to following Dr. Sarno's methods. But, I seem to be making very good progress. My lower-back pain and sciatica is much improved over this past month or so after dropping chiropractic, physical therapy, etc which I had been doing since last August as the pain increased. So, this is just a note of encouragement to you!
Ken |
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