| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 00:17:21
quoting Alexis,
"Can you help tell me if I am somehow not being clear, because these folk seem to be completely incapable of understanding what seems to be very clear language. Have I explained something wrong or is it just not possible to explain these things to people who actively want to be unquestioning religious fundamentalists?"
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Alexis, you are not being clear, but that was better.
It's ok that you don't know about Jeeps, I have no clue what "IE" is.
Could you answer a question for me, which of Sarno's books have you read and how many times ?
You have every right to question Sarno's theory but anyone also has the right to rebut your contentions.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| skizzik |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 04:28:49
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Thanks for clarifying that Skizzik, I was never able to figure out what their point was and it looks like you got it.
Welcome to the board.
tt 
thanx, been enjoying your posts! |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 22:19:57
Thanks for clarifying that Skizzik, I was never able to figure out what their point was and it looks like you got it.
Welcome to the board.
tt |
| skizzik |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:32:07
quote:
Originally posted by Stryder
USA Student (AZ) said: "The sad truth of being human is that everyone feels anger and stress and fear. It's part of life (though first-worlders may do better at avoiding it than some). If back pain were caused by stress, or even just exacerbated by it, then people in refugee camps, soldiers, and people with serious illnesses like cancer would get it in higher proportion, right?"
Sarno states in the audio cd (not quoting) that if the stressor (in this case war) is so great then no distraction is needed because there is no repression of stress/tension. Very often when in the middle of a trauma the body and mind will forge ahead w/ all energies on fixing the current situation, only to get a physical symptom/s when the trauma has concluded. I think Sarno calls this delayed onset tms or something.
Now when the troops return home, and repress the horrible experiences, perhaps suffer "post trauma shock" or whatever, the physical symptoms will then come a knockin.
so the critiquer (is that a word?) here may have missed the point that it's not stress, but repressed stress that causes tms and equivalents.
Lets not forget Sarno's wounded soldier example that soldiers wounded in some particular war (forget the detail from the audio cd) were extraordinarilly not in pain compared to regular patients w/ the same wounds not in war as observed by the medics. They felt perhaps because it was their ticket home and their problems (war/battle) were over, or they thought they're problems were over. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 07:56:52
Rejection on the TMS syndrome can be part of the syndrome. The pain has but initiated as a defense, and it will use every trick possible to make you think you have a physical problem. One trick is that one must change their personalities in order to bring about change. That is not possible, as far as I can tell, and it will not certainly bring about a recovery from TMS symptoms. Such thinking smacks of behavioural modification strategies which is not part of the TMS treatment program.
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Sarno-ize it!
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| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 07:43:47
quote:
I hi-lited "USA Student's" last comments showing how virulent her opinion is. Why would you want to wish so much ill-will towards a Doctor, in his mid-80's who has worked all his life to help people in pain without inflicting more pain on them and their wallets, even if his theory was to proven wrong someday in part or whole?
It's true. It is unusually virulent. The cynic in me thinks it's really somebody from this board, who didn't like all of the Sarno support, and is just trying to stir the pot.
The only thing I can think of, is she's really bitter over her own pain, and tried Sarno techniques and gave up when the pain didn't disappear quickly. I know when I was in pain and fear all the time, I was more apt to think about lashing out at some MD who promised care and healing, then sent me off to another doctor.
Beth |
| kevin t |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 07:12:36
I think I need to read the "DIVIDED MIND" now. Sounds like a better book.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 21:42:24
From page 328 of Dr. John Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
Excerpted from Chapter Nine,
"Structural Pain or Psychosomatic Pain?", by Douglas Hoffman, M.D. :
"I have observed that there are several common questions patients express with regard to the treatment of psychosomatic disorders. Foremost is the question of how to "figure out" their understanding that life is too stressful and therefore they must eliminate stress in order for the pain to go away. Of course, this thought process is not correct. First, psychosomatic disorders arise from the unconscious mind, which is where the emotions reside that, for the most part, we are unaware of. Not only is it not possible to directly access these emotions, but it is not necessary for successful treatment for most individuals. Succesful treatment requires one to simply acknowledge that these painful, umpleasant, often threatening emotions exist. It is not necessary to "figure them out." Treatment is about acknowledging their existence not changing them. Stress is unavoidable and a part of life. Acceptance, then not only means accepting one's pain as psychosomatic, but also coming to terms with our genuine self, both the parts we like about ourselves and the parts we don't like. Accepting our painful unconscious emotions as part of who we are is not only a step toward successful treatment but a step toward being a more whole human being." |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 20:49:43
Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone.- Oscar Wilde (The Importance Of Being Earnest)
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Sarno-ize it!
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| Stryder |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 19:26:01
USA Student (AZ) said: "The sad truth of being human is that everyone feels anger and stress and fear. It's part of life (though first-worlders may do better at avoiding it than some). If back pain were caused by stress, or even just exacerbated by it, then people in refugee camps, soldiers, and people with serious illnesses like cancer would get it in higher proportion, right?"
The sad truth is that USA Student missed that point that Good Doctor readily states that TMS treatment typically applies to specific personality types. Just like some people can't digest the lactose in milk, some people (like TMSers) can't digest the stress in their lives. Other people can digest the stress, so they don't get TMS-related pain.
Did she even read the book?
I think the proof of Dr Sarno's theory is all of us who have turned around our lives using his work. I had LBP for 20+ years, and now its basically gone after I became Sarno-aware.
I have wondered at times if the TMS work was just another distraction, in itself a placebo, the work acting as a TMS equivelant. The more I consider this the more I realize that it works because it is simply the correct diagnosis. (Ok, yes, I admit it, I've drunk the Kool-Aid).
-Stryder
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 10:29:10
Note, I am not a Christian, but have studied the Bible. I say this as a prelude to what I am about to write and I am not promoting any religion, but only using a Biblical story by way of illustration of a point I am trying to make.
That review that TT posted reminded me a verse in the Gospel of John where Jesus was reported to have healed a blind man of his blindness and he was being questioned and hounded by the religious leaders of his day:
Note these verse (see full context at John 9:13-25):
"A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God," they said. "We know this man is a sinner."
"He replied, "Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind, but now I see!" (end quote)
And I say, that there is another orthodox community in existence today, called the medical establishment, who are playing the same care-taker role as the Pharisees at the time of Jesus, only they are protecting and promotong unproven medical dogma which many times lacks scientific validy (see TDM pages 254-259).
My reponce to them is: "Whether Dr. Sarno's methods are scientific or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was racked with, but now I am free!"
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Sarno-ize it!
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 10:04:35
" 5 of 8 people found the following review helpful:
Dr. Sarno's method didn't help me at all., November 2, 2006
Reviewer: USA Student (AZ) - See all my reviews
And yes, I do believe it's a big scam.
The sad truth of being human is that everyone feels anger and stress and fear. It's part of life (though first-worlders may do better at avoiding it than some). If back pain were caused by stress, or even just exacerbated by it, then people in refugee camps, soldiers, and people with serious illnesses like cancer would get it in higher proportion, right? But in all my reading, I've never heard that this is the case.
Doctors don't understand back pain, period. It used to be that they didn't understand stomach ulcers either and therefore also attributed them to stress. In this case also, quite a few patients felt better by adopting a less stressful life or eating bland food. Now we know that ulcers are caused by a bacteria and that this malady completely unaffected by food choice. Yet for years, doctors were convinced that their remedies were effective.
In my opinion, stress is a catch-all "cause" that is applied to many misunderstood diseases (particularly those common in women, but that's another subject). We all know stress is unpleasant, but does it really cause sickness? Couldn't stress just be an easy answer to a tough question? In the 19th century, temperment was thought to cause TB. And in the 17th century, strange illnesses were attributed to witchcraft. The human mind has trouble saying: I don't know. Doctors have trouble saying: I don't know why you're in pain.
Furthermore, Dr. Sarno offers no justification for leaving his theories untested by scientific method. Even a small double-blind study would be illuminating. It doesn't even have to be double-blind--just a study of some kind would be nice. Someday someone will figure out how the back works, and then Dr. Sarno's going to look like a big dummy. Frankly, I hope I'm around to see that."
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Me being an imbecile and an idiot, I decided to do a quick scan of Amazon's reviews of HEALING BACK PAIN. The first 20 or so reviews appeared overwhelmingly positive. Then I came across this one. Fittingly it's written by a "USA Student" and a good example of the thinking being produced by our rapidly declining education system, both in the public schools and universities.
It contains many of the negative themes regurgetated here to refute the Good Doctor's TMS theory. I won't do a point by point rebuttal because that has been done for me by Dr. Sarno's latest book THE DIVIDED MIND.
Although all of his books will do the job, (my sentimental favorite is MIND OVER BACK which was his and my first), it points out why students of TMS theory should read his latest work to get the fastest acting "knowledge penicilin". The answers to the science questions of TMS theory are there.
I hi-lited "USA Student's" last comments showing how virulent her opinion is. Why would you want to wish so much ill-will towards a Doctor, in his mid-80's who has worked all his life to help people in pain without inflicting more pain on them and their wallets, even if his theory was to proven wrong someday in part or whole?
It seems to me that sophomoric "USA critic" has some psychological issues of her own. |
| quadancer |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 16:27:31
World-Class BURN!!! What an entertaining thread. With an amazingly clear finish! Made MY day.
Insanity is doing the same things repeatedly and expecting different results. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 10:28:03
Well, maybe WrdTrv is up for some friendly, or not so friendly bantering?
Wrd, we hereby name you as Tag Team Captain in Direct Opposition to the TT's of the world. Please name your first Tag Team mate and commence firing! 
Beth |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 09:43:29
Hi h2o,
No worries, having dinner with friends and running is what TMS recovery is all about, "returning to normal activity".
I guess I chased another one away. Hopefully Alexis has cracked her copy of THE DIVIDED MIND, that she had sittng around and is absorbing the latest "fast-acting' version of TMS "knowledge penicillin". Using the older versions works, but tends to skew the data and the percentages.
Cheers.
tt
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| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 02/20/2007 : 07:11:38
TT: Great warning on the Posting Title.
I'm sorry I haven't quite held up my end of the Tag Team during the long weekend. I was busy with life affirming things like dinner with friends and running, but I promise to hold up my end of things for the short week ahead.
Alexis, have you chosen your team yet? I almost feel like your not getting into the spirit of this lively party.
Beth |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 08:12:47
Thanks Stryder, you the man! |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 23:31:25
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Does anyone know how to edit the subject box of this thread to place a "warning lable" in for those who may be squeamish or revolted by such talk? I looked but couldn't find a way. I hesitate to ask Dave, he may scuttle it.
TT, read your original post, then click the edit icon on your original post, you can then edit the "Subject:" line and save your changes. -Stryder |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 21:16:48
WT,
You obviously have not read the rules of this thread. I hope your reading of Sarno is more "accurate". This is a TMS tag-team thread. You are allowed to pick board partners either Regular TMS tag-team or Super TMS-tag teams of three.
H20 is not my pet poodle, any more than you are Art's or Alexis' pet poodle--or maybe you are? She is my TMS Tag Team partner. We have room on our team for one more, anyone want to play?
I've changed my mind. I found TDM so amazingly good that I am going to read it again and then leave the board after that. But I warn you I flunked speed reading. So WT, if you find my posts repugnant to your social or political sensibilities, maybe you should not read my posts. If you have a overwhelming compulsion to read them, take a leave of absence. Why don't you check out some of the other TMS web sites, I promise not to follow.
Please read the rules to this thread if you, Art and Alexis want to play the game.
H20 and I will take you guys on 2 on 3.
Dave is the referee. Dr. Sarno is the honorary league commissioner.
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 20:17:23
H2O: Are you TT's pet poodle?
TT: Somewhere around your 999th post, I remember your saying that you would be leaving the board as soon as you finished TDM. Now, nearing your 1500th post, are we closer to that happy day? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/17/2007 : 11:07:30
Does anyone know how to edit the subject box of this thread to place a "warning lable" in for those who may be squeamish or revolted by such talk? I looked but couldn't find a way. I hesitate to ask Dave, he may scuttle it. |
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