| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Monte |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 09:10:48
Monte,
Are you saying that if this is what you're doing...holding these things, resentments, judgements, etc. inside that you need to get rid of them? How come what you have used to recover is so different than anything that doc Sarno teaches. Btw, I loved it when you were on the TMS board many years ago as a regular poster. I am still stuck with my pain as of 5 years now and I just don't know what to do to rid myself of it.
Many thanks56Gzn3
2007-02-01 01:23:56 GMT
Yes, you must get rid of the repressing way of thinking (resentments, judgements ect.) you must. just knowing about them doesn't work, right?
i am not saying anything differenent than sarno says...sarno believes that you can just learn about tms and the thing is over.....not the case....take yourself as perfect example....90% of the people i work with are just like you. so when Sarno says..."think psychologically" I am trying to explain to you thru my practice and experience what that really means.....sarno says repressed anger is cause of pain right? well, how to you know your are repressing? how to you stop repressing? how to you expereince or feel this emotioanl energy instead of generating/creating more of the pain? this is what I expand on....no different than sarno, just expanding on...
realize where I am coming from. I learned about this tms stuff from sarno, I partially healed by knowing/understanding his info....but then I had to expand on "think psychologically" to become pain free...and now I have been pain free for 4+ years. I am sharing experiential knowledge of the way this dynamic disorder plays with your life.
I have taken sarno and put myss, zukov, pert, chopra, tolle and others practice of emotional healing into a practice that you can incorp. into your life every moment and begin reversing this pain disorder. u don't want to get caught into the trap that all you need to know is what tms is and think psych. instead of injury...this is not enough to heal a person from this disorder usually...
you may want to heed a common msg from me and get off the "never ending searching wondering doubting" msg boards...i am telling you that this "feeds" your pain strategy more than helps you...take a look at your history....still in pain and it's been 5 years! something to think about.
--Monte Hueftle
http://www.runningpain.com
monte@runningpain.com
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| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 20:57:55
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Yes definitely, you have exceptionaly fast growing hair. It's a sign that you are very healthy. We'll take a little off the sides and a little off the back. That'll be $35 not including tip please, thank you. Can we make an appointment for next week also?
Oh, yes, you were so right! I do _look_ and _feel_ so much better now. Thank you so much!! Here is an extra big tip for you for being so honest and caring about me.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 18:11:41
quote:
Originally posted by Stryder
Do I need a haircut?
Yes definitely, you have exceptionaly fast growing hair. It's a sign that you are very healthy. We'll take a little off the sides and a little off the back. That'll be $35 not including tip please, thank you. Can we make an appointment for next week also? |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 13:49:26
There should be a new one -- don't ask people on the internet if you need a haircut! :-)
quote:
The Sarno therapist I've been seeing has told me those numbers are ridiculouly low, based on the hundreds of TMS patients she has seen over the years. She says "most" need psychotherapy. I think that was the point Monte & I were making. It is not enough, for the majority of patietns (as evidenced by the existence of this board) to learn about TMS and pain will go away (which is EXACTLY what Sarno is saying, in a nutshell).
You can't conclude anything from this, because the number of people who have seen a psychotherapist and need therapy, or who have visited an online support board and need help/support, is biased by self-selection. The people who don't need therapists don't seek them out. The people who don't need help don't come to this board.
Sarno has actual data from patients he sees on how many need therapy or additional help. He probably doesn't have complete data, but his data is not completely self-selected like yours; it's thus more reliable.
There is also a large difference between those who need additional work to stop feeling pain, and those who stop feeling pain quickly, but pursue additional work to achieve greater health.
Sarno does not say that people should become discouraged if they need more help or put a specific timeline on healing. The bottom line is that some people get better very quickly, some do not, and no one really knows particularly why.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 11:11:18
Do I need a haircut? |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 06:16:36
And my favorite, "Don't ask a barber if you need a haricut". |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 21:39:26
alexis said: I've absolutely no idea whose right here, but I just want to point out that's exactly what I would expect a psychotherapist to say. Hardly an objective player any more than anyone one else in a particular specialty. Again plays into the need for more independent research.
I agree. If you went to the dentist and asked if you needed braces, what would the answer be? If you go to a podiatrist the doc will tell you one leg is "a bit" longer than the other and you need orthodic inserts in your shoes.
In most cases, as the Good Doctor says, these are normal abnormalities.
-Stryder |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 17:31:45
This month using, TMS thinking, I was able to banish three TMS symptoms. Many would have been in bed or gone to an orthopedist. They were: neck pain, lower back pain and a pre-cold. I did not utilize a psychotherapist to accomplish this.
About a year ago I had a significant depression due to a huge amount of life-cycle pressures that hit me within a brief period of time. I realized I needed professional assisstance to deal withn it. It was resolved and I've never felt better. The therapist was not familiar with TMS. In the end I did the work by showing up and dealing with the issues head-on. In retrospect I may have dealt with the issues just as well on my own. The therapist was not that helpful.
There are only a handful of TMS doctors and not many more TMS therapists on the planet. If psychotherapy is required in most cases, that does not bode well for the millions, perhaps billions of humans on the planet to ever recover from psychosomatic TMS symptoms. It certainly sounds like job-secuity for Monte.
I will trust Dr. Sarno's credibility in this regard, his colleagues who contributed to TDM, and the many people who have posted on this board of their positive TMS "healings" by reading the books and doing the work on their own.
I think we may be talking apples and oranges. How do you qunatify people like myself who accept TMS theory and use it almost daily to ignore a myriad of symptoms that in our society are now viewed as diseases and conditions? Not every TMS symptom is deeply seated. Many are just twinges that can be banished as quickly as they appear.
Like I said before, TMS is dynamic. Everything may be going well in our lives for a while and then we get hit with a truck-load of stuff not necessarily of our doing and out of our control. We may need help to get through a rough patch. Other times we can deal with the waves in our reservoir of rage on our own. The more we practice TMS stratagies the better we can get at them, until we can turn it into a game and out-smart the gremlin.
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| truenorth |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 09:21:52
tennistom,
I think your response veers way off course in regard to what I was saying (and to a certain extent, what Monte was saying) and that is, plain and simple, Sarno overpromises what is needed to get better. I know everyone is different, but two of his books, HBP and The Divided Mind, state that only 5% (HBP) or 20% (The Divided Mind) need pychotherapy on order "to get better" (his words). My main point was:
The Sarno therapist I've been seeing has told me those numbers are ridiculouly low, based on the hundreds of TMS patients she has seen over the years. She says "most" need psychotherapy. I think that was the point Monte & I were making. It is not enough, for the majority of patietns (as evidenced by the existence of this board) to learn about TMS and pain will go away (which is EXACTLY what Sarno is saying, in a nutshell). Most need more work, therapy, whatever, something to help them dig digger and access the emotions. Based on personal experience, Monte's tapes help in that regard. That's all I'm saying. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 23:59:00
quoting Monte:
"...this is not enough to heal a person from this disorder usually..."____________________________________________________________________
Thanks for claryifying that truenorth. This is all pretty confusing, but I'll try to make some sense of it.
I disagree Monte. Many people have been "healed" of psychosomatic symptoms caused by TMS. We have a "TMS Successstory" thread with testimonials to that fact. I was reading tonight, in TDM, Dr. Sopher's chapter recounting success stories of some of his patients who had sufffered with TMS symptoms for decades and were "cured" of them in a relatively short time after learning about TMS. I have "cured" myself of several TMS symptoms in the past few weeks by following Dr. Sarno's methods.
Monte, how does your approach differ from Dr. Sarno's? It seems you follow his practice but that it say doesn't work without reading a lot of other books. I disagree. All most people need to do is read his books, and ACCEPT and ACKNOWLEDGE the theory. If their psychological issues are deeply seeded, that is another matter. Then as Doctor Sarno ALSO says they should have TMS oriented therapy.
How is your approach substantivly different than that? I presume you are offering TMS therapy. Next time I'm in the SoCal I might look you up and give it a go. If you can "heal" my "arthritic" right hip, that two TMS doctors reccommend hip-replacement for, I would be more than pleased. If you can't, will you give me a refund? How much do you charge, by the way, and how many sessions does your average client need?
___________________________________________________________________
quoting truenorth:
"I know Dr. Sarno is a god on this board but I think his books, especially HBP greatly oversimplifiy what most people need to do in order to get better, and that is to REALLY FEEL THE REPRESSED EMOTIONS and not just experience them intellectually. In my case, I had to access, and feel, the buried emotions."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Truenorth, everyone is different. Many will attest to the "book" cure. I can't recall anyone making The Good Doctor out to be anything close to God on this board. Infact, he seems to get as much criticism here as praise due to not being able to quantify his results according to contemporary "scientific" standards.
I'm one of his biggest devotees but I view him as an astute doctor who has the courage to think outside the medical/industrial complex box. He is certainly very self-effacing and disdains any acclaim or publicity, otherwise we would have seen a national chain of Doc Sarno's TMS Pain Clinics popping up at strip-malls long ago. He just keeps doing what a good doctor should, helping patients and writing an occasional book about his findings.
What is different about his approach is, if his patients suffer from psychosomatic pain dis-ease, he gives them "knowledge-penicillin". TMS is not something that is "cured" or "healed" by the normal definitions of those words. No doctor cures TMS. Only the patient's mind accomplishes that feat. A TMS informed doctor can only lend a powerful "white-coat" encouragement effect, informing the patient that what he suffers from is not degenerative. The cure takes place in the sufferer's mind. If the sufferer can't accept the knowledge (or is not ready to) it won't happen. The doctor can only act as a coach or guide.
To view TMS as something that one can be permanently "cured" of like getting a polio vaccination, shows a mis-understanding of the overall concept. Maybe a lobotomy would accomplish that. The causes of TMS psychosomatic symptoms are dynamic. They come from our "reservoir of rage". That reservoir is always filling and emptying depending on what life throws at us, both good and bad, that is threatening to our emotional homeostasis. It varies from each person as stated in TDM on page 344 by Dr. Sopher depending on three components:
"1) Stresses and strains of daily life
2) The residue of anger from infancy and childhood
3) Internal conflict (self-imposed pressure--the clash of the id and the superego; it also comes from perfectionist and goodist traits)" |
| altherunner |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 19:46:33
I like Monte's approach, and I also enjoy the writers he mentioned, Carolyn Myss, Gary Zukav, Candace Pert, and Eckhart Tolle. Eckhart's writings changed how I react to life. The reactions are less, and the pain is gone. |
| truenorth |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 18:20:43
I think Mone began the thread by cutting & pasting part of an e-mail he received from56Gzn3. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 17:34:36
There seems to be a post missing from this thread by "56GN3" from 2/1/07. It makes it confusing to follow the context. Did it get erased, anyone know?
Thanks |
| truenorth |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 16:50:20
I think Monte is dead on. I've been suffering from TMS for almost five years now (mild back pain but severe foot pain). I first saw Dr. Sarno in October 2003, went through the program, did the work but saw little improvement. Then I became overwhelmed with job problems for two years, which really added to my internal rage. At the same time I was in a relationship with a woman I deeply loved and needed, but who just did not meet my needs (more internal rage). My pain actually increased during this period. I became obsessed with the pain. I rode my bicycle over 1200 miles in the summer of 2003 but have been unable to cycle since, due to the increased foot pain.
My job issues have stabilized since early 2005. I went back to see Dr. Sarno in May of 2005 and we agreed that I should start from scratch. I went to the lectures again, did the work but saw almost no improvement when I called Dr. Sarno six weeks later. He recommended psychotherapy with one of of his therapists and I began in July of 2005.
After six months of therapy I'm only now realizing I have not been really feeling my emotions. I know Dr. Sarno is a god on this board but I think his books, especially HBP greatly oversimplifiy what most people need to do in order to get better, and that is to REALLY FEEL THE REPRESSED EMOTIONS and not just experience them intellectually. In my case, I had to access, and feel, the buried emotions.
The Sarno therapist I'm seeing told me that "most" TMS sufferers require psychotherapy in order to get better. Additionally, unlike what Dr. Sarno says in his books about not needing to change our personality or life issues, the therapist strongly suggested that I needed to end my relationship with my girlfriend in order to get better. In my case, it was not enough to acknowledge that she was a key source of my internal rage. I broke things off a few months back and think I made a key decision that will help me improve.
Monte's audio tapes have helped me, albeit very slowly, to get to the internal rage, anxiety & sorrow. I'm only now really feeling the buried emotions, which are very strong. I sometimes shake and begin breathing rapidly as I experience them. It's a little scary at times but I finally have confidence after five years that I will beat this.
I'm getting back on my bicycle next month and look forward to a great season of cycling.
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