| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 14:30:57
Sometimes I have problems identifying something as TMS or physical. Some weeks ago this pain on the top of my right foot started and at a certain point I felt it all the time when I wore shoes. I decided to do my weekly running anyway because it was just some sensation and didn't really give problems and it was probably 'fake' anyway. After the run, I had pain from hell in my foot, and I haven't run since. Not because I am scared, but because it hurts so much. I feel it's slowly subsiding like a real injury would, but I don't know..
The week after the injury I could feel the big toe tendon produce this vibrating feeling like a car's windowcleaner (how do you call those?) moving over a dry windshield, when I put my fingers on the top of my foot and wiggled my big toe. Today not anymore, which suggests it's healing. But with lesser severity, I remember I've had that slight uncomfortable sensation there more often.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/22/2006 : 19:59:45
Well you seem to succeed :) Just something to try next time, since internet can be a bitch and saving valuable typed work is worth a shot anytime imo.
In other news, my foot is still not better. I remember feeling it sort of uncomfortably stuck in my shoe, but I don't know if my shoe is causing it or if the pain is blaming my shoe since now it's sensitive. Army boots can be pretty tight, but they are quality shoes.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| holly |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 05:11:53
believe it or not I am not that good with the computer. I need to just sit down and learn how to do everything one day. I have come a long way though!! lol |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 16:43:48
quote:
Originally posted by holly
now I am frustrated I wrote a whole post only for it not to be posted due to having to log in again!! Never did understand why I am sometimes logged out!!
In some browsers you can click back and select / copy your post and log in and reply again and paste your text.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 15:08:24
Holly (and anyone else should really just skip this set of details):
What happened was that I wore sandles with thin, tight straps accross the back of the heel almost every day for a month or two, and then ended up pretty much climbing a mountain in them one day (this was, in retrospect, really stupid, but I had been travelling in countries where people were climbing mountains in high heels...I kid you not).
Either the next day or day after I noticed I had small, movable bumps on the back of both heels and that it hurt to wear the sandles or other shoes which contacted the heel. The bump on my left heel resolved in a matter of weeks. The one on my right heel only went away after the bone rubbing on it was removed surgically.
I had the surgery after at least a year, and I believe more, of wearing birkenstocks every day so that nothing rubbed this spot. The right heal still didn't resolve. It was not a completely successful surgery, but I could -- within a few months -- wear softish sneakery shoes with stuff around the back and carefully selected winter boots. Perhaps it would have eventually resolved without the surgery. I will never know. The restriction in foor wear is not a big deal for me. I have found shoes I don't mind wearing to job interviews, and I bet I'm happier in them than the people in pinchy heals.
My foot issue really wasn't very important for me and it wasn't something I thought about much at the time. Maybe it was because I was young and basically healthy, or because it really didn't impact my life, or because I was just doing so many other things. Yours seems to be bothering you more, perhaps because it is worse or quite different, or maybe because of the curse of the internet or something. Or it still could be TMS. If just adjusting your shoes makes it not hurt I would just ignore the thing and wait a year or so like I did and see what happens.
Is there something in particular this is preventing you from doing? Do you have any shoes in which you can comfortably walk around? |
| holly |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 14:38:45
now I am frustrated I wrote a whole post only for it not to be posted due to having to log in again!! Never did understand why I am sometimes logged out!!
Alexis did your tendon problem on both feet ever go away completly?
tennis tom Sarno said (on the phone in about a 45 second conversation)"tendonitis due to lack of oxygen to the tendon", (hence TMS). So I buy the tendonitis but from the shoe injury initially & not from oxygen being deprived! (not saying it is unheard of not to turn into TMS but not this case, this time nor with my neurophy either) My feet are just prone to problems in my old(er) age.
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| cfhunter |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 13:18:48
Ahhh the battle of the feet.
I always read these b/c I never had real foot trouble until the day I got married and wore the worst pairs of shoes you can imagine for over 10 hours...couple that with a ton of stress and major overload on family stress too and you get.....BAD foot trouble for the past five years.
It's just interesting the times it is at it's worst are when I am mad, stressed or anxious.
Go figure.
I have the neuroma too...like Holly...but it seems as if Holly you might not be sure it is indeed a neuroma? From what I understand nueroma's can come FROM TMS. That is my case I believe. Your problems sound just like mine in the neuroma situation...so I am always interested in these threads.
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| alexis |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:26:44
Holly, I don't want to give you only the pessimistic side of that story. I actually originally had the tendon problems on both feet (I had forgotten all about that), but the one on my left foot resolved itself within a week or two (I don't really remember exactly). So I only had lack of resolution on one foot. I'm going to stop here as I don't want this to turn into the "Structual Foot Injury" forum! You could look up more details online, but if I were you I wouldn't unless you think it will help you somehow. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:20:31
quoteing Holly:
"When I called Sarno on the phone he said "tendenitis!!"
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Holly could you please make a clarification? To my recollection Dr. Sarno told you it was TMS. Did he day it was TMS "tendenitis"?
"Tendinitis" by itself could be a legitimate injury.
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| alexis |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 08:57:10
Hi Holly, I'm afraid my problem didn't go away. The tendon grew something on it (a visible bump) that came in contact with shoe heals so I had to live in Birkenstock's for a year. It didn't hurt at all while I wore the birkie's and was basically something I could ignore most of the time, but that still really wasn't a practical option for ever.
Touching the bump with my finger caused a ticklish (best word I can think of) sensation. I was in college at the time and this bump didn't much affect my life as it was fine for me to wear birkenstocks every day and I'm not a big athletics person. I had surgery which allowed me to move up to sneakers, but has never since allowed me to wear the more formal dress shoes. Probably not a bad thing looking back.
I would perhaps give your thing a few weeks and then consider treating as TMS? I think if you are thinking about it this much then it could be TMSy (or serving a tms purpose)-- as I understand it "real" pains can serve the TMS purpose if you obsess about them in the same way. I read somewhere about how TMS pains may subside when a "real" pain shows up. So maybe best to try not to obsess since there's probably not much you can do about it at this point. I suppose if you are a professional athlete or something that's easier said than done.
I'm really not too expert in the TMS stuff, so maybe someone else knows about how to deal with real structural pain in a TMS context (assuming this is what this is, which may or may not be the case). Like are there special considerations if you have a TMS history and then break your leg? I mean that's going to hurt, and do you need to be careful about how much you're focusing on that? I don't know. |
| holly |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 06:43:05
Alexis I am pretty sure now my so called diagnosed "neuroma" was/is a strained tendon from pushing my toes up on a too high heeled pair of shoes. It is as simple as that. I did not feel it till 2 days later just like yourself. When I called Sarno on the phone he said "tendenitis!!" and I think he is right except it is not from oxygen deprivation to the tendon beause of TMS but from straining them from the shoes. How long this is suppose to take to go away?? well I was told 4-6 weeks by a second podiatrist. It is slowly improving and acts up a bit from the gym if I don't put something soft into the sneakers. I guess the longevity of this situation may progress possibly to TMS but I don't think TMS just attacked my foot out of nowhere in this case if you get my drift. How long did you have a tendon problem in your foot and did that go away??
I am a true believer in TMS but sometimes I think the theory tends to go overboard. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 06:32:48
quote:
1) Does this have a structural explanation from obvious trauma?
2) Is this providing an effective distraction; is it occupying my thoughts and bothering me?
1) No.
2) No.
Well it only recently started bothering me since I can't go running anymore. But compared to my interesting selection of other TMS symptoms and windscreen wipers, the second question is usually yes for me.
I think I like to go to the doctor when it isn't over after the holidays, just to see what he thinks. After explaining TMS and my partial but impressive victory over RSI, which I didn't do yet. I can always ignore his advice, but maybe he has a nice insight.
Anyone know some clever sentances to explain TMS in 30 seconds?
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 22:57:30
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 21:13:57
By the way, browsing through this site I've seen a lot of statements like "most foot pain is TMS" or "90% of foot pain is TMS". I've no idea if either of these is true, but I'm willing to bet the figures vary tremendously by gender. Having not worn traditionally "female" shoes (meaning poorly designed shoes geared to aethetics) since my problems almost 20 years ago, I believe it is unlikely that anyone who has not worn such shoes can easily imagine the damage they might cause. If you doubt the damage a pair of shoes can cause, pick up a pair of cheap pointy toe high heals and wear them a day with no stockings in hot weather and then get back to us. I pick an extreme example because a) most women have done something so seamingly stupid at least once, and b) the extreme example will save asking a lot of men to walk around for a month in a wide selection of women's shoes. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 19:13:29
Hi Holly, your experience with the delayed symptoms does not actually resemble my B12 experiences, which have fairly specific syptoms. I don't want to describe them here because of the nature of TMS (I'm afraid to suggest symptoms to anyone). Let's just say that where contact or pressure did have an effect it was immediate, not a matter of days.
The other foot problem did take a day or two to show up since it had to do with a damaged tendon and was very specific to one small place and only when in contact with the shoe. The shoes and the B12 issues were unrelated. If you haven't had a B12 test, you may want to research that separately to see if it is relevant to you. Just a good thing to rule out if not done already and it is likely. |
| holly |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 15:55:55
Alexis, Alexis, Alexis...where have you been?? Finally someone that agrees a foot problem can arise from shoes!! I am also interested in this B12 deficiency you speak of. I have also have polyneurophy for the past 3 years which came on after a really terrible bang injury to my right middle toe aside from this more recent neuroma type pain brought on by trying on a pair of shoes (also stupidly) too high. Are you saying that vitiman B12 deficiency has anything to do with neuropathy?? what has your experience been??
question: what do you make of the "neuroma type" pain coming on 2 days after trying on the high shoes? Don't you think that the sharp electric pain I first got(mainly that one day) would present itself immediatly after trying on the culprit pair and not 2 days later???? Now a dull numb pain just lingers but seems better when using those pads. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:32:01
Or windscreen wipers, depending on your dialect.  |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:23:01
quote:
a car's windowcleaner (how do you call those?) moving over a dry windshield
They are called windshield wipers.
Beth |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:19:15
RS, you're doing a pretty common TMS thing, which came up in another thread recently: it will never be the case that the Good Doctor has mentioned every single symptom you have. Even if you're the first person on the board, or in the entire world (unlikely!), to have a symptom, it could still be TMS. What you should ask yourself is:
1) Does this have a structural explanation from obvious trauma?
2) Is this providing an effective distraction; is it occupying my thoughts and bothering me?
If the answers to the questions are NO and YES respectively, suspect TMS.
From what you've written, I understand that the improvement in your RSI has let you go back to a largely normal activity level. That's your goal! You're already there. Just relax and keep doing the work, and over time you should see continued improvement.
However much you may not like Fred Amir, I think you'd benefit from trying out his deconditioning techniques, since it also sounds like you still struggle with certain situations that bring on back pain.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 12:55:24
Thanks for the posts, and esp. the quoted chapter! But it's not getting easier. Where I live, foot pain is not in vogue. How would I know this is TMS? People here would say yes, my doctor would say no, and I... I can only compare to other cases.
I know my RSI is TMS. It's partially cured and partially frequent random flareups these days.
Then I got these backaches. I have them all my life after heavy lifting, but when I suddenly had two days of pain for nothing I knew at least that occurance was TMS. I still have aches during dishes which makes no sense even for TMS but it probably is. Backache and RSI 'feel the same'. The pain feels similar and that's all. But once again I walked a lot (still no running because that sucked the previous time) and there is the rubbing the rubber band over the lunchbox feeling again when touching the top of the foot and wiggle the big toe. The other TMS manifestations produced no such actual internal mechanical vibration on movement.
Many people learn about a complaint being TMS because for years and years nothing else helped. Or because it's specific case documented 1000 times. When knowing TMS, a sympton might be stupid so that's busted also. But this... I don't even know where I'm going with this, just like... the only way to know for sure is to wait 12 months, right?
Also, I'd like to underline what alexis said (in the first post - you people are so fast). I can't assume anything 100%. Only when it becomes rational. And in my opinion to dx TMS you don't need to 'think outside the box' of rationality when you've adjusted the box to the new knowledge.
I know, 'It is essential to believe 100% in the dx without a doubt.'
I do for RSI and it helps. (!!!)
I do for tinnitus and it doesn't help.
I do for occasional back pain and it doesn't help.
But this.. nope. That's the problem.
You could read TT's post after this one, but I'm not looking for a yes or no answer. But ehh.. I don't know..
Are there people who recognize my described problem (internal vibration upon motion where 'normal anatomy' doesn't is new for me) and patched it either persueing TMS or some physical medicine way?
Sorry for the long post, I can't seem to straighten out my thoughts about this.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| alexis |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 12:15:09
Hi armchairlinguist--I sure hope your right! I love hearing success stories, it's the best thing here in my opinion. Especially from someone like you who had a similar situation. It's really very encouraging.
I descrbed my symptoms, very roughly, in my profile. Basically RSI with some other stuff thrown in. It came on very suddenly, and while I'm now usually fairly sure current symptoms (at least the RSI and probably the other stuff) are a TMS type syndome, I'm not sure about the first week or two, which I will probably never know for sure about.
I don't know if that matters, though and don't really think about that early situation very much. I guess I do still belive that this is a TMS syndrome stemming in part from an original injury (and in part from my personality and reaction to that injury), but it doesn't much matter to me one way or the other. I have had a couple of debilitating (briefly) back problems in the past that I always assumed were stress related, so TMS hasn't been that big a leap as far as accepting there can be mind/body connections. |
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