| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kevin t |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 12:30:27
Hi people,
I cant seem to shake TMS. Ive read the books and listened to the audio tapes,but for some reason I have hit a wall. I HAVENT been doing any daily journal work or writing anything down. Ive been busy with a business I started which is taking all my time. I accepted the TMS thing for a while but just became too busy.
Now Im under all this pressure to get the business working and running and I have leg pain still.I swim everyday and it "helps". Mostly I do it just to feel healthy and stretched out,but if I stop for ONE DAMN DAY, BAM the pain comes back. I cant swim 24 hours a day just to feel better like some hamster in a wheel.
I know I can "do" more about my TMS but Im juts so busy. My legs hurt or feel funny all the time. I still have this thought in the back of my mind that "something " is wrong.Yet, I know logically that this is all muscular over a BROAD range of areas.The broadness of it all is what is suspect.
Also one of the main reasons I have the doubt , is because I watched Dr Sarnos lecture, and he didnt mention the front of the thighs/quadriceps as a usuall point of pain, so I think well maybe Im the exception and this really IS something physical.
I went danicing the other night for the first time in a while and I was scared, but I did it.I swim nearly 50 laps a day with no pain while doing it, but like a mental patient I have pain when Im doing NOTHING. Its totally, insanely, immensely, moronic and illogical.
I go drinking the other night,play pool, talk to chicks,have a few laughs.....with no pain. I wake up the next day......PAIN. What the **** is going on here?
Now I know that the TMS pain "shifts" but for the most part , mine is always in the same places all damn day.And I have muscle twitching going on all over, thats the part that "shifts".
LMAO, I just realised Im obsessing.....mother******!!!!
Maybe I just need to "work harder" at TMS, but Im spending all damn day trying to run a business in PAIN.I dont cry much, the last time I did was when I posted here about journaling a few weeks ago. I have so much fear and hidden self hatred I can feel it. It is ALWAYS in the back of my mind."what if I fail" or "youre just a loser" or "youre not going to get rid of the pain" or "youre stuck with this for life, and you will fail because of it" and on and on and on.
Truth is Im scared ****less. There is no way I can have a life of PAIN and be happy. I dont care if I make MILLIONS,what is that worth when you have pain in your legs all day?? I would rather be broke and pain free,screw "success". I really want this to work and the pain is like a friggin woodpecker pecking at me all day until sometimes I just want to take muscle relaxers all damn day, but cant. The pain makes me anxious,nervous,irritated,inpatient,angry,snappy,shifty, and generally more enraged than I started out being. This is wearing me out and I need a break from the pain, just a few days
Does anyone have any TIPS or POINTERS they may give? From all my posts here in the past, do I even sound like a TMS case? ive heard that some people need more "work" than others with TMS and I wouldnt doubt Im that candidate, but Jesus,enough is enough already. I want my freedom back, I cant live like this forever and look forward to life with chronic pain.What the hell do I do now?
I would encourage Dr. Sarno to send us a FAQ sheet or something at this blog since we are mainly here plugging his name all day and adding numerous keyword/phrase matches on google by even typing his name. So if youre reading this dude, help us out will ya? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 07:44:33
quote:
Originally posted by kevin t
Also one of the main reasons I have the doubt , is because I watched Dr Sarnos lecture, and he didnt mention the front of the thighs/quadriceps as a usuall point of pain, so I think well maybe Im the exception and this really IS something physical.
I invite you to read page 94 or Dr. Sarno's "Healing Back Pain." Dr. Sarno writes:
"I remind them [his patients] that the musculoskeletal systom is not the only one where the brain can set up a diversion. It can do the same thing in the gastrointestinal tract, the head, with tension or migraine headache, the skin, the genitourinary tract. The brain will cause mischief in any organ or system in the body, so one must be on guard."
Dr. Sarno also writes on page 85:
"When someone tells me he is having trouble accepting the diagnosis, I suspect that there is a resistance in the subconconcious to giving up the TMS." |
| kevin t |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 03:35:36
Thanks for the posts guys, you all make very good sense. Man there are a lot of intelliganet people on here. So different than the numbskulls Im usually around.
And thanks for the post Veronica, its funny, Im in GLENDALE too, were neighbors. Small world ......
KEV |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 14:58:31
Hi Kevin, I pulled a few quotes out of your last post on this thread because it seems to me that they are significant indications of the amount of emotional pain and anger that your unconscious is trying to suppress.
"I think that HALF of the reason I want to talk to someone is because I havent really come to terms with how much the pain has set my life back in so many ways for years. That in itself can make someone feel like a "failure" or not good enough because they couldnt "pull their weight"."
"Anytime I try and talk about "feelings" I feel like theres this well of stuff behind my eyes and Im going to explode. The dialogue in my head is so negative towards me all day that anytime I speak on this blog I feel "REAL" but my conscious self keeps it in and I distract myself all day. Its damn tiring."
"I miss so many people that are gone from my life. Those that I loved and family I havent seen for years,people I pushed away out of my life cause I was always angry about "the pain". Theres so much to contemplate to all this."
I also recall a post in which you mentioned a horribly traumatic experience when you were only 5 years old, which would surely haunt anyone who went through something like that.
I've been thinking over these comments you've made because of your statement that you want to talk to someone like Dr. Schecter. I think when you said "I know there is much work to be done on me as far as mentally," that was a good indication of just how overwhelmed you are by your emotions, because your statement puts the responsibility for doing the work onto someone else ("work to be done on me"), as if you feel like you aren't able to face doing it on your own. So it may be that talking to a professional who has knowledge of TMS would help you get started in dealing with these overwhelming repressed and suppressed emotions.
One of the main purposes of counseling, as I understand it, is to provide a "safe" environment in which to bring out the emotions. Having another person acknowledge the feelings, someone who is totally there for your benefit and doesn't have their own agendas and emotions involved, the way friends and family might, can make it easier to examine our feelings. It's sort of like they give us the permission that we can't give ourselves to acknowledge these feelings, especially anger, which we're conditioned to view as unacceptable, so that we can then process the emotion and come out the other side without the fear of drowning in the emotions. It's like there's a lifeguard there to help and protect us if we get in over our heads and start to flounder. This forum is a great sounding board for us, but some people may need the support of a trained psychological counselor to help them get things started.
I don't want to discourage you from journaling on your own. But if you really find yourself unable to get it going, then finding a good doctor to help you get to the point of being able to acknowledge your emotions might be beneficial.
I also want to mention that I haven't found it necessary to actually relive the events or the pain. What has helped me has been just writing down the anger that I had to go through those hurtful things in the past and the anger about the current things that make me unhappy and anger about the things that take up the time and energy that I'd rather be putting into doing what's really important to me. Part of what scared me in the beginning was thinking that I'd have to relive all the pain and fear from the past events, but it hasn't been necessary for me to do that.
As for swimming, it seems to me that maybe your brain has latched onto that as another way to distract you, making you think you have to do this all the time in order to avoid pain. It's funny how our unconscious brain can add to our anger in it's efforts to protect us from our hidden emotions, because it creates situations that just lead to more stress. I guess that's why it's referred to as primitive, it doesn't have the reasoning ability of the conscious part of our brain to see that it's making things worse.
Wishing you all the best,
Corey
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| vrampen78 |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 23:22:49
Kevin,
Hi. I'm a beginner at this (I found out about TMS in September) and I can relate to your questions, concerns, and fears about the pain and TMS. At first, after reading Sarno's HBP, I was really excited and I "got it" and I fought through the symtoms quite successfully right away and then fear and anxiety about the future and the possibility of more pain started to set in. And it wasn't that the pain came back full force again or that I got worse, but the fear and anxiety magnified any little 'feeling' or twinge associated with the low back pain and sciatic nerve pain I had felt months before. Shoot I still have poking feelings in my legs, cramps in my legs and feet (not too often), tightness or spasm in the back. And what I have noticed is that I'll have really confident days where I don't limit myself and laugh at any poking, tightness, cramping, or pressure and it will just be out of mind after I laugh at it and my life continues. Then a few days after this it's like I've taken a step backwards and my confidence does a downward spiral and I worry and stress about it all and that is when my subconscious does its best dirty work. So how do I keep fighting and believing?
It really is knowledge...learning about TMS & learning about yourself. If you read the case study on www.tarpityoga.com she says some days it's like you have taken a couple steps foward and other days it's a step back. She also says that sometimes TRYING too hard to get rid of the pain just makes it worse...it's true...it's fear of the pain that makes you panic so your subconscious takes advantage of this. I highly recommend it...I keep going back to it all the time to calm myself down on the bad days. Also, another thing that helped IMMENSELY, after I read HBP and I couln't make my symptoms dissappear by simply reading the book,was reading Dr. Scott Brady's Pain-Free for Life: A 6-week cure to chronic pain. It helped to confirm TMS, but it has helped me with the journaling...I just started this past Monday (I had been trying to avoid it). He recommends you dedicate at least 15min. daily to journaling either right in the morning or at the end of the day and if you are really bad at starting the writing process or you just aren't 'feeling' anything he helps by giving you questions to ask yourself for your specific personality or emotion (anger, fear, shame). He really takes you step by step and holds your hand through it.
And about your pain staying mostly in one place or being in the front of the thigh...well just to relate I also had terrible pain in the front of the thigh...the poking in the legs were sooooo annoying..and the lower back and buttocks pain were frightening. I've had migraines before, acid reflux, neck pain, canker sores (i got one today for no reason & they go away in one day-weird huh...I haven't journaled for a few days) and a whole bunch of other little things at different times and intervals, but mostly it has stayed in the low back and butt and legs. I think your subconscious found your (and mine too) weakness....it's scary to have pain in the legs and think you can't take care of your responsibilities by easily getting around. Try to journal at least 15 min. and don't think of it as a chore...through the journaling you will find the repressed emotions that your subconscious has been trying to hide behind fear and anxiety. I think from what I've read, fear and anxiety are TMS equivalents and are just distractions from your true emotions. And DON'T put yourself on a timeline...that's murder...I did this at first, and it did not help at all!
Sorry this post is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long, but I saw alot of myself in your post. I just want to end with letting you know that maybe you should give journaling a try since you mentioned you wanted to go see Dr. Schecter. I too wanted to see Dr. Schecter...I'm in Glendale so it would be really easy, but he also will suggest journaling (I bought his workbook too) in his "treatment". Oh and btw, I called his office to see about an appointment and his office visit for TMS is $300...not too bad. Then he's got the CD's, DVD, and the workbook (you can buy online) and group meetings. Your belief is there you just need to confirm it with a little work.
-Veronica |
| Stryder |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 17:31:57
Hey kevin_t,
Dave's advice is right on the money as usual. I'll even share one of my fav quotes of his...
Treating TMS means taking responsibility for your own healing.
-- Dave
Take care, -Stryder |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 10:28:38
quote:
Originally posted by kevin t
When in doubt I am going to revisit these blog entries.
Kevin,
If you have the time to visit this site and post messages, and to read other blogs, then clearly you have the time to journal.
Being "too busy" is just an excuse you are telling yourself because you are avoiding doing the work to get better.
This avoidance is a symptom in and of itself. Unconsciously you do not want to do the work because you are afraid to confront your emotional issues head on.
You need to recognize that and thwart the strategy of your brain and force yourself to face the difficult, embarrassing, and frightening feelings that you are avoiding. |
| kevin t |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 21:21:51
I also wanted to add, that I live in Los Angeles and was thinking about going to see Dr.Schecter in Santa Monica. I know there is much work to be done on me as far as mentally. I think that HALF of the reason I want to talk to someone is because I havent really come to terms with how much the pain has set my life back in so many ways for years. That in itself can make someone feel like a "failure" or not good enough because they couldnt "pull their weight".
I think that seeing Schecter would help me along but I dont know how expensive he is and I have totally ran out of money and in debt.
You know I just realised something while typing this... Anytime I try and talk about "feelings" I feel like theres this well of stuff behind my eyes and Im going to explode. The dialogue in my head is so negative towards me all day that anytime I speak on this blog I feel "REAL" but my conscious self keeps it in and I distract myself all day. Its damn tiring.I also have a nervous "tic" for some years. Its not that noticeable I dont do it in public. But when Im alone I turn my neck a lot.Theres always this feeling of discomfort in my own skin like Im uncomfortable just being alive. I rmeember having various "tics" for years.Thank god I dont so them in public..lol.
Im ranting...sorry.
I was going to say, remember that this is the Holiday season, and there are so many emotional things that come up with most people. Myself, I hate this season. It bothers me on so many levels. I would suspect that "TMS'ers" dont feel the "holiday spirit" much. I miss so many people that are gone from my life. Those that I loved and family I havent seen for years,people I pushed away out of my life cause I was always angry about "the pain". Theres so much to contemplate to all this.
Does anyone else feel like Christmas is a big kick in the nuts(or hoohoo)? Its the number one Holiday to make a guy like me want to hide in a cave and drink Cabernet all day and curse at myself while playing some NIRVANA riffs on guitar. I need some eggnog with brandy right about now LMAO. |
| kevin t |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 20:57:38
Thanks for all the posts people.When in doubt I am going to revisit these blog entries.Youve all been real cool for taking the time to answer.
Stryder......I like the "Sarno wins" quote...lol. |
| Stryder |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 20:05:05
kevin_t said: Also one of the main reasons I have the doubt , is because I watched Dr Sarnos lecture, and he didnt mention the front of the thighs/quadriceps as a usuall point of pain, so I think well maybe Im the exception and this really IS something physical.
Nope, its not physical. The pain is real, but the cause is in your mind. Your mind is causing the pain.
I agree with many of the replies. For some epeople, all they have to do is read Sarno and they are cured in a few days.
For many people that is not the case.
It took me a few years to recover 99% from LBP. Even though I did not write in a formal journal, it took a lot of work (re-reading the books, posting on the forum, examining my emotions, feelings). My symptoms receeded gradually a little bit at a time. I also used to have lots of leg pain like you do. Its all gone now. Sarno Wins !
The good news is I'm not under any less stress, its just that I have learned to manage it better, catch relapses as they happen so I don't get disabled (unable to bend, lift, bed ridden).
You need to unlearn bad habits, and learn how to feel your emotions, express them in a constructive way, and not repress them. Try screaming and yelling in the car while you drive by yourself. It's very satisfying. You can curse like a sailor if you like.
So, you are just going to have to do the work. The good news is that you have discovered Sarno, and if the DX fits, you can rest assured that you will be cured. Just follow the path.
Take care, -Stryder |
| Alpha |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 18:06:20
Now Im under all this pressure to get the business working and running and I have leg pain still.I swim everyday and it "helps". Mostly I do it just to feel healthy and stretched out,but if I stop for ONE DAMN DAY, BAM the pain comes back. I cant swim 24 hours a day just to feel better like some hamster in a wheel.
I have exercised every day for 2-3 h, because it made me feel SO good again, but once i stopped it for just a few days, the symptoms kicked in again.
But is it a wonder? When tms is really a problem of oxygen deprivation and decreased blood flow in some areas of the body, exercing, massage and things like that will push some blood and with it oxygen through the veins, but it CAN NOT stop the oxygen deprivation. SO its just fighting symptoms. I ve stopped exercising at first, because
The root lies in our emotions and must be threated likewise.
And this thread really inspired me to get going and start journaling as soon as i have finished the books.
Cheers,
Alpha  |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 15:25:48
Hi Kevin,
I have to agree with the others that the journaling has been the big key for me in overcoming enough pain and other symptoms to know for sure that this is TMS and that I can beat it. Before I was journaling regularly I had some doubts that I just couldn't shake. The journaling was what helped me get past the doubt. But I understand the feeling that you're too busy. I'm helping my son set up a business and doing research for another business that I want to start myself. So I always feel like my energy is spread too thin. But I finally realized that what was preventing me from journaling regularly was not time, but fear.
It scared me to think of what feelings I might stir up if I really got serious about looking at my emotions and all the events that have led me to have TMS. It felt too overwhelming. And I couldn't see how writing the things that swirl around in my mind all the time could make any real difference. If I'm thinking about a lot of this stuff, why should I have to write it down? I can't really tell you what the difference is, but I can tell you that there is a huge difference when I write it down, compared to when I just think about the pain and anger or even talk to other people about it. Writing it down somehow puts me back in control of my life and it reduces the pain and improves my energy level.
So I hope you won't give up and let the doubts and fear keep you stuck where you are. Just be willing to give yourself 15 minutes of writing time each day for a few weeks and see where that gets you. You don't have to be sure it's going to help before you devote that time--just jump in and let it take you along and see where you end up in a few weeks, then re-evaluate if necessary. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 13:21:06
Kevin,
You stated"
"I HAVENT been doing any daily journal work or writing anything down. Ive been busy with a business I started which is taking all my time. I accepted the TMS thing for a while but just became too busy."
If you don't do the work, which takes time and effort, you will not recover. Sorry to say, but there is no free lunch on this one. If you don't do the work every single day, I repeat, you will not recover. In his lecture video Dr. Sarno mentions people like yourself who call him and complain about not recovering and then admitting they have not been doing the work because, like you, they are too busy. Dr. Sarno is insistent that such people cannot or will not recover unless they follow the program on a daily basis.
In addition, your brain is doing a snow job on you with the thought of "oh Dr. Sarno did not mention pain in this area, so it can't be TMS." Dr. Sarno cannot mention every single manifestation of TMS in a brief lecture. He did not mention groin pain either but that does not make me doubt my TMS diagnosis in the least.
So get back on the wagon Kevin and get to work.
Actually FAQ's are in Dr. Sarno's video lecture which you said you listened to. If you have others then post them here. This is what this board is for and you will get a sympathetic ear from fellow board members.
Here is what Dr. Sopher says in his book, which I quote at length:
For reasons that are not entirely clear to both Dr. Sarno and
myself, there is great variability in the time required for symptom
resolution. This gets back to the notion of doubt. If someone states
they truly believe that TMS is the problem, that they have been doing
the mental homework and yet are distressed that their symptoms
persist, they may question whether they have TMS. This has the
elements of a catch-22. If you begin to doubt there is a psychological
cause, that there could be a physical cause, then the work is undone
and the brain’s strategy of creating a physical distraction will triumph.
This is part of what I refer to as The Calendar Phenomenon. By this
time, everyone may know of someone whose symptoms vanished
immediately after reading the book or shortly after seeing a physician
trained in TMS treatment. So, an expectation is created in their mind
that their symptoms should recede soon after incorporating this
philosophy. They look at the calendar and become upset as days and
weeks go by. This is where I tell people to look back at their
personalities. The calendar phenomenon is another manifestation of perfectionist tendencies – it is self-imposed pressure to succeed and
succeed quickly. If they can recognize this aspect of their personality and add it to their “list” of sources of stress, relief will be on the way.
Fear, doubt, the calendar phenomenon and the failure to think
accurately are examples of some of the internal obstacles to healing.
Several external obstacles bear mention.
#1 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you mention it to your physician,
he/she either dismisses it out of hand or nods indulgently, and advises a traditional regimen including medication, physical therapy, etc.
#2 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you mention it to your friends, family
and/or co-workers, they look at you as if you have lost your mind.
They, too, may nod indulgently and then recommend a physician,
practitioner, medication, herb, etc.
#3 You have read this book and become convinced that this
approach makes sense. When you pick up a magazine and read an
article discussing symptoms like yours, there is no mention of TMS as
a possible cause. Or maybe, just maybe, there is a brief mention of
Dr. Sarno’s work with TMS, but other quoted sources dismiss it out
of hand. As you trust the members of the media to do their homework
and provide accurate, complete information, you begin to wonder
whether TMS is for real.
These scenarios occur every day. They may contribute to the
conditioning that allows the pain to persist. Even in my own office,
when I am introducing one of my established patients to TMS
concepts, they may get angry or look at me as if I have two heads.
You see, they have come in unsuspecting. They have come in to see
me for evaluation of some physical symptom and did not expect to
hear that it may have a psychological cause. Some are delighted,
enthusiastic and quite willing to think outside of the box. To the
others I explain that I can only expose them to this different way of
thinking, that I cannot make them believe it. I will certainly try to
make my case and be convincing, but it is ultimately up to them to
decide.
Perhaps when TMS theory and treatment becomes embraced by
the medical mainstream, more people will be open to this way of
thinking about themselves. For those that do, it is extremely
gratifying to see them succeed at getting rid of their pain and
improving their quality of life. Trite as it sounds, I became a
physician to help others, to help them when they are ill and keep them
well. I am saddened when people refuse to accept the possibility of a
psychological cause and so continue to suffer. |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 12:55:01
quote:
Originally posted by kevin t
I HAVENT been doing any daily journal work or writing anything down. Ive been busy with a business I started which is taking all my time. I accepted the TMS thing for a while but just became too busy.
You answered your own question.
For many people recovery is work. It's not enough to read the book and accept the diagnosis. You need to examine the things in your life that are ingredients of the repressed rage. |
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