| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 11:03:26
Here is an excerpt of what I wrote this morning in my jounral. Let's discuss together these issues as they relate you perosnally:
"I should be doing this or doing that," is a common theme running around in my mind. Notice that "should" word as it is tyrannical and enduces a lot of inner turmoil, pressure, and yes, ANGER. I consciously buck against these "shoulds" and dismiss them, but Mr nnconscious- the childish cry-baby inside who never grew up- has something different to say about that!!
"Who cares about what they think" in actuality is "I care a lot about what they think."
I may also feel quite upbeat and happy with my life on the outside. In fact, I am expected - and notice that word "expected" as it is closely connected with that word "should" - to be thankful and project an attitude of happiness, but inside I am crying and raging. I am like a little child sitting in the dark with no one to console me from the scary monsters.
"You're a man Shawn, you SHOULD grow up!!!"
Yeah, but inside the man their is a little child crying, scared and angry and it is a part of myself I do not want to recognize or acknowledge. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kimakim |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 15:35:50
I thought of Byron Katie while reading this thread as well..I use her technique all the time and the questions she poses are simple, but not always easy. They are:(to be used with any stressful thought)
1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3. How do you react when you believe that thought?
4. Who would you be without that thought?
Very effective on shoulds and other stressful thoughts.
Kim |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 12:55:24
I've found that many of my generalized "shoulds" are allowing me to feel better about myself, because I do the thing that SHOULD be done and others don't. It ain't pretty, but there it is. And knowing that has helped some because now I know what an artificial attempt at feeling okay with myself it is. The true feelings of being okay with yourself come from another place entirely, and now I am working more on that place rather than trying to prop up these artificial attempts to feel better.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| floorten |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 12:43:50
I find the most dangerous "shoulds" in my life are the sweeping generalisations. Things like "people should be nice to each other" or "people should respect my time". They are so convincing because they represent the way we would love the world to work. The challenge is to apply critique to these sweeping statements, as Byron Katies does.
People SHOULD always be nice to each other.
Can you know that's true for sure?
Can you think of situations where it isn't true?
Are there infact situations where the opposite is true?
And what is this generalised SHOULD actually protecting you from? Fear of conflict? Lack of self-confidence? Fear of giving too much?
--
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 11:47:13
h2oskier25
I never thought of posting the quotes to a single post as they always generate a new discussion thread which ends up being quite interesting.
Shawn |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 10:30:02
Hm, interesting, Fox. I'm suspicious of CBT because although I do think that we can have counterproductive thinking habits (eg shoulds), the main problems lie elsewhere (psychodynamics). But it sounds like the thinking behind CBT is sound -- I'll try to check that book out sometime.
SS, I like the way you describe the many functions that "shoulds" end up performing. For me, it's very helpful to transform a should into another statement that more accurately reflects how I am feeling about the issue -- since should doesn't tell you a feeling directly.
So,
"I should read that book" becomes "I want to read that book, and when I have an opportunity I'll check it out."
"I should call so-and-so" becomes "I don't really want to call so-and-so, so I'll wait for him/her to call me" or "I want to call so-and-so but I don't have time now, so I'll do it tomorrow when I'll get home earlier."
That sort of thing. It's the end result of asking the questions that now automatically come to mind when I think shoulds. Then when I express things that way, I don't feel helpless, I feel like I am taking a positive step to accomplishing things I want (thinking of how I might do them) and getting rid of things I don't want.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Fox |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 10:10:47
Armchairlinquist - For me, Albert Ellis' masterpiece was A Guide to Rational Living. And no, you don't hear much about him anymore. I suspect he's dead at this point because he was real old the time I saw him speak in the early 1980's. He set the stage for the current cognitive behavioral psychotherapy crowd. His emphasis was on the cognitive. |
| Colleen |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 07:20:14
Tell me more about the new Sarno book (TDM). I have a "should" list as well,
Colleen |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 06:31:19
Shawn,
Have you ever thought of posting your quotes to a SINGLE post.
TT did that with his TMS in a Nutshell thread, re: quotes from the new Sarno bood TDM. I think that works really well. |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 06:29:55
Good discussion, but for me, "should" is only the tip of the iceberg. If I "should" have done something , but did something else, I might beat myself up a little bit (maybe too much). But if the "should" transforms itself into a categorically impossible situation to correct, such "not only should I have done something else, but that something else was the only proper course of action", then your psychological world shatters into pieces when you've done the "wrong" thing because there is no longer a choice (so you believe).
Take care to make sure that your preferences do not become requirements or you'll quickly figure out where your breaking point is. Alright, this is behavioral, but it does seem to work a little for managing day-to-day stress. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 01:17:57
Thanks, Shawn, for sharing the journal entry. The comments on this thread are quite interesting.
Fox, I'll remember that phrase, "look for the should."
ACL, I like the questions you ask yourself when a "should" comes up. That sounds like a helpful way to get to the root of things.
SS, I like the idea of viewing the past as a moot point. I've kind of found myself feeling angry about the results of past choices and I want to stop dwelling on that and just move forward.
Corey |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 22:20:43
To me, "shoulds" signal dissatisfaction in the present moment. Especially when the shoulds are directed towards yourself, they form a barrier of negativity between how things ARE and how you want them to be. The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread is the title of Byron Katie's book, Loving What Is, because "shoulds" express the opposite of unconditional love and acceptance of what IS. I often have had the same thoughts of "I should be doing this or that." Such thoughts plague my mind especially when I'm stuck in a rut, and I think that these thoughts serve to perpetuate the stagnancy and frustration.
I'm also reminded of a section of Niel Fiore's The Now Habit, a book on procrastination and its link with perfectionist tendencies. This info may be a little too specific for some, but it may be of help to others. He details two kinds of self-talk that can keep you stuck. First he describes the 'have to's,' statements that, "confirm the belief that others are making us do soemthing against our will." The 'have to's' communicate "victimhood, resistance, stress, and confusion." They relay feelings of outside pressure which lead to "ambivalence, resentment, and resistance."
Fiore sees the "shoulds" as messages of depression. He writes, "'Should'...has lost its original meaning: 'I dislike the way things are, and I'm going to do something about it.' Instead it has come to mean 'I'm angry and disappointed about the way things are (that is, different than they should be), and I'm going to complain and feel badly.'" He says the self-talk of shoulds creates the following negative, self-critical comparisons: 1) Should compares ideal vs. bad reality; 2) Counterproductive goal compares finished vs. bad start; 3) Envy compares admired vs. bad you; 4) Longing for the future compares bliss vs. bad now. Repeated throughout your day, "should's" become a counterproductive chant that programs the mind with the negative subliminal message 'I'm bad. Where I am is bad. Life is bad. My level of progress is bad. Nothing is the way it should be." Basically, he then offers the alternative of choice to escape from the perpetual "have to's" and "should's."
I know Fiore's account is very black-and-white, but I also know from experience how trecherous the 'should mantra' can be. A lot of my 'shoulds' referred to the past ('I should have started this project days ago, I'll never be able to catch up.' or 'I should have already achieved X goal years ago, all my colleagues are so far ahead of me.') making getting out of that place near impossible. What's helped for me is making the past a moot point. It's already passed, and there's nothing that can be done about it. But you can make choices in the present. In fact, that's all you CAN do. (Well, I suppose you could also worry about the future, another favorite of mine, but I actively try not to dwell on that either, since it has little bearing on the present except to instill fear in the unknown.)
We really are our toughest critic, and I'm beginning to find that when my first inclination is to beat myself up about something, choosing a compassionate, gentle response instead has surprising results.
Best,
ss |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 17:48:29
Everytime I hear myself thinking "I should" my habit now is to ask "Do I want to? Should I really, or do I just think I should? And how does my inner child feel about the should?"
I guess I have come to that same point as Ellis. I know that whenever I'm shoulding I'm feeling conflict and pain. Fox, did he write a book or anything? And do people still follow his methods? I'd be interested to learn more.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Michele |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 16:13:10
My favorite phrase:
"I will not should on myself today."
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 15:36:24
Corey,
You ask "....do you feel like that childish fear is unacceptable for an adult or do you feel it's reasonable have that sort of fear and you're angry that there is no one who will console you?"
To answer your question I don't know how I feel on the inside, and the answer to be yes to both of those questions but honestly don't know. That is why it is called "repressed" emotions. I can, at best - without having an emotional explosion like Helen in Dr Sarno's books- speculate about what I think may be happening, but I am well aware there are two levels of reactions to things, events, personality traits, past events etc. - conscious and unconscious. If I knew what the specfic feeling was - apart from the all embracing concept of rage - it would not be repressed but very much alive in my conscious awareness.
In short, my journaling is speculation about what I think might be taking place, but I can never be 100% sure. But the point is to think along these lines. As Dr. Sarno says in his video lecture "if the repressed emotion is not coming out then we must go in."
My posting was a conversation I was having with myself and I am merely allowing the board members to over hear that conversation and relate it back to their experiences. |
| Fox |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 14:53:14
Albert Ellis (Rational Emotive Therapy) was fond of saying "Cherchez le should" - in other words, to find out what you are thinking that is causing your emotional discomfort, look for the "should". Of course, Ellis wasn't big on the Freudian unconscious stuff. He believed irrational beliefs were the source of emotional distress. Freud is the Man and Sarno is the Man, but a little Ellis be helpful, too - maybe not with physical pain but with emotional pain. Sarno and Ellis agree that perfectionism can lead to big-time problems. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 14:14:28
Hi Shawn,
Why don't you want to recognize or acknowledge the scared and angry part of your unconscious mind?
I was having some trouble with the concept of accepting that part of me, because it doesn't fit the image that I've had of myself as the responsible one, the one who always picks up the slack for everyone else and makes sure things are done the way they "should" be.
When you say that inside you're like a little child sitting in the dark with no one to console you from the scary monsters, do you feel like that childish fear is unacceptable for an adult or do you feel it's reasonable have that sort of fear and you're angry that there is no one who will console you? Or does it mean something else? Just curious, because I'm still working out what I feel and what it means.
Corey |
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