| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kevin t |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 11:11:08
Ive studied the threads on here as I am new to this TMS theory.I also belong to another "back pain" forum and started to see a pattern more with "TMS " people.Ive noticed that a lot of back sufferers have O.C.D. traits. Theres no judgment there because I myself suffered years with O.C.D.Im wondering if its all related, I know Dr.Sarno thinks it is, but can an obsessive mind contribute to this epidemic in the "information age" I wonder.If there is always a "problem" with ones physical or mental self,that can serve a purpose not seen by the conscious.Im also noticing that the TMS sufferers are more intelligent which may add to the worry. Just a thought.Maybe in the future the treatment for chronic pain will be to just go skydiving and try to light yourself on fire on the way down.Or maybe it will be a phrase like " I order you to stop pain in the name of the universal code of pain laws". Maybe its some simple thing like pinching your right ear twice and yelling "googamooga".
Just lending some humor for the fellow OCD'ish folks LOL |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 00:25:20
Yeah...
I spent 30 years with migrating symptoms which were hellish. So a lot of my beliefs have come to be ABOUT THAT. It takes a bit of peeling of the onion.
Today in therapy I was making myself stop focusing on the recent reiterations and go back to the original. For example, there is a woman ex-friend who treated me horribly. I always knew that she activated my sister stuff. But the recent real-life abuse by her was so intense and had such a big effect on my life that I kept focusing on her. Then, while I was on this forum awake in the middle of the night last night, I heard that computer sound and looked and saw that I had got an e-mail from my sister in England. Nasty. Snippy. Disapproving. Jealous.
I thought to myself, Ouch, go back to the forum. Then I thought, NO! Even though I almost never think about her, haven't seen much of her in 40 years, my original feelings about her were the source of all this stuff with this other woman. So I went to my computer journal and wrote a really pissy letter. And I sent her a very mildly pissy response - which as a goodist I have almost NEVER done my whole life in spite of almost all her communications being mean my whole life. I somehow believed that if I just stayed loving, I would eventually get her love. Same with this other woman.
My sister sent back a moderately apologetic one-line note.
I felt as though I had uncovered in myself one of those jewels.
Because these things are jewels. If we do that thing I was talking about earlier about feeling the feelings and changing the beliefs, the actual feeling of the feeling turns the whole mass into energy that can then support my new belief. For example in the case of my sister thing... I felt how angry I was and am at her on a deep level. I growled and just felt it. Instead of holding the belief "feeling this is hopeless, she will never change," I consciously noticed that belief was there. I changed it to "it's good to feel this, and it doesn't matter what she does, it's my feeling."
I felt so much better. In fact it was a bit of a breakthrough when I continued with my sister stuff with my therapist. Doesn't mean that anything about my sister "means" anything about my life, in this case. There isn't a particular choice or change I have to make except for being more authentic internally - which will lead to whatever it leads to over time with her.
blah blah, bedtime
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 18:25:24
I am angry about a lot of things but I always focussed the pain anger on my self, making me not want to punch others in the face for that particular reason. I do for them being dumb ignorant intolerant foddermuckers, but that's beside the point.
About the TMSsers being intelligent thing, when I was walking home tonight I thought, if every person is equal, what if being dumb and ignorant is a manifestation of TMS? They probably wouldn't comprehend the explanation and still be irritating, making us have to kill them anyway so that don't make a difference, but the thought makes me feel less angry and more understanding.. though I know I can't keep this thought up for more then a day :P
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| kevin t |
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 14:39:54
Im with Peter. Much of my rage is the fact that I lost so much in the course of TMS. Relationships, career, life goals,and so on ,and so on. And the rage sometimes is the fact I seem to hurt in so many different places at once. The pain alone can make you want to shoot someone or bash someones face in for even talking to you. My rage has become borderline savage and I know it. If I feel this consciously,then imagine what lies in the unconscious. Yes.... a psychopathic pain filled murdering monster whos trying to get out. After years of this TOTAL AND COMPLETE LIFE WRECKING GARBAGE one tends to be "a tad miffed at life". Has anyone ever found that in the course of TMS work some of the RAGE comes to the surface more defined and you just want to smash everything you see with a bat? I think Im venting. Anyways, Im glad that there are people that know this level of pain like myself. It takes BALLZZZZ(or ovaries for the ladies) to deal with chronic pain. Even Dr Sarno says that this is the MOST painful syndrome that he has seen in medicine. No arguments from me Dr. Sarno. There are no "wussies" here as far as Im concerned. |
| PeterW |
Posted - 11/18/2006 : 19:56:13
quote:
In my not very humble opinion, this idea of accepting negative thoughts is a misunderstanding. It's the negative FEELINGS that need to be accepted. Sometimes the only way to access them is through the thoughts they are attached to. But once you get into the feeling, it's essential to CHANGE THE THOUGHT, because thinking it more DOES create more of it.
I've seen so many people make this mistake. "Oh, I'm just accepting that I will never get better." "You need to surrender to the "reality" that you are ill."
It's b****t. Those are just depressed, limited beliefs. DON'T SURRENDER TO THOSE!! The thing to surrender to is the FEELINGS that holding those beliefs for lifetimes has created, as habitual energy patterns that are so painful you have created symptoms to avoid them.
Wow, this is powerful stuff. A part of the puzzle why so many folks struggle so much with getting rid of TMS symptoms?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a nutshell you're saying that with severe and debilitating symptoms that just dont go away like they're supposed to, we may start thinking and fearing that we'll never get rid of them, that we're stuck living in this compromised way for ever. And the feelings that result from those spiralling negative thoughts and fears can be so scary and painful we have to repress them, which is exactly what perpetuates the symptoms.
Or . . . the purpose of the pain is to distract us from those stagnating and horrible feelings that can and do result from us running that endless loop of negative thoughts through our head ("Bloody pain, cant do this, cant be that, I'll never get better" etc ). Think about how angry we must feel inside with that tape playing all day for months/years in our head.
Talk about a negative spiral into hell . . .
It's a slightly different take on Sarno/TMS, but really rings with me. I've always known at a gut level that a large portion of my rage reservoir was directly and indirectly related to having to live a compromised life, constantly dealing with debilitating fatigue or pain for so many years, destroying relationships, careers, and self esteem in the process. And the fear that it all seemed unrelenting, unfixable, and it made me even more 'not good enough'. Definately a core, defining issue for me. So upon discovering Sarno it made sense to me to acknowledge that living with severe symptoms could itself be the source of much rage, but I found that the more I thought about that (as a source of rage) of course the worse I got.
Clearly separating the thoughts from the feelings helps put it into perspective though. At least to me. Embrace the feelings, but change the thoughts. Thanks Wavy Soul.
I should clarify that I only discovered Sarno after 18 years of living like this, so I had accumulated a lot of negative energy concerning my body and its seeming inability to heal. After 18 months, I'm still a work in progress with localized pain area, but the CFS I had for 16 years has pretty much disappeared by now (big victory)!
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 11/18/2006 : 08:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity18
kevin t,
A TMS therapist, Don Dubin also stresses that you need to accept your negative thoughts in relation to your symptoms (in other words, surrendering to the possibility that the pain will never go away).
In my not very humble opinion, this idea of accepting negative thoughts is a misunderstanding. It's the negative FEELINGS that need to be accepted. Sometimes the only way to access them is through the thoughts they are attached to. But once you get into the feeling, it's essential to CHANGE THE THOUGHT, because thinking it more DOES create more of it.
I've seen so many people make this mistake. "Oh, I'm just accepting that I will never get better." "You need to surrender to the "reality" that you are ill."
It's b****t. Those are just depressed, limited beliefs. DON'T SURRENDER TO THOSE!! The thing to surrender to is the FEELINGS that holding those beliefs for lifetimes has created, as habitual energy patterns that are so painful you have created symptoms to avoid them.
How to surrender to feelings? It's a long story, in my professional and personal experience - not the simplest thing. But just saying
"I feel sad (or angry or afraid) because I USED to believe I was going to be ill forever (or whatever the limiting belief)"
is a great start and will help immeasurably. Then remind yourself that the old belief is a lie, and that you are healing right now.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 21:03:55
quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
In a way, Dr. Sarno's advice to live your life is like exposure therapy, because we do the things we're afraid we shouldn't be doing, the things we're afraid will hurt us. At least it seems that way to me.
Good point Littlebird! Returning to "normal activity" as Dr. Sarno says. |
| Curiosity18 |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 18:58:56
kevin t,
A TMS therapist, Don Dubin also stresses that you need to accept your negative thoughts in relation to your symptoms (in other words, surrendering to the possibility that the pain will never go away). This seems similar to the OCD treatment approach. Maybe other folks who have worked with Mr. Dubin can comment more on this. Unfortunately, this approach was not helpful to me. It just made me more hopeless. I certainly agree that many TMS sufferers, including myself have components of OCD.
Curiosity
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| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 15:16:14
Ok, I say we start the official brotherhood (and sisterhood) of the "googamooga" cure. Sign me up.
I nominate Kevin T to be Head Googa.
I would like to run for Mama Mooga! That's fun to say 
quote:
Originally posted by RedsandroMaybe we're so sick of the stupidness in the world that we unconsciously do this, sort of like hunger strike.
I HEARD that, redsandro. If only it worked 
Beth |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 14:18:04
In a way, Dr. Sarno's advice to live your life is like exposure therapy, because we do the things we're afraid we shouldn't be doing, the things we're afraid will hurt us. At least it seems that way to me.
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| kevin t |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 12:48:58
Yeah, i agree with all points. OCD is called the "Doubting Disease" because patients are often afraid of lack of control.The typical OCD patient fears the unknown very much. So we use ditractions in the way of obsessions/compulsions to soothe this fear. Much like TMS.I saw an OCD specialist months a while back, before I even heard of TMS. Now that I know about TMS I see some weird identical patterns with TMS people and OCD people. But the most widely successful and almost universal way to treat OCD is called "exposure therapy". In this therapy, youre actually taght to accept your "bad thoughts". They even make you think the worst thoughts habitually to desensitize your brain and NOT just go on with your daily life like Dr Sarno says to do with TMS. So treating TMS and OCD seem almost opposite in practice.Can get really confusing having both. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 10:22:38
I wouldn't confuse being smart with being a walking data base. My yoga teacher used to say that his biggest problem was that his students were "too well educated". Our education system today puts a premium on memorization (perfectionism) rather than teaching thinking.
Our culture takes great joy in nit-picking, the dotting of i's and the crossing of t's rather than understanding concepts. If we can catch a foe in a "gotcha" moment of mistaken data, then they can be dismissed and demonized.
Great environment for creating TMS! |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 02:37:55
I sense that there's also a less hostile and more helpful atmosphere. I used to visit a computerforum with very smart people, and it was all like RTFM, Use the search, already discussed and I'm not answering noobs.
You said it Kevin, we are all so smart that we make ourselves sick! Maybe we're so sick of the stupidness in the world that we unconsciously do this, sort of like hunger strike. If we learn to appreciate this messed up world, there would be no need for us to 'hunger strike' :P
Has anyone concidered taking magic mushrooms to figure this all out? :P
____________
Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| kevin t |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 00:56:43
I think I can qualify as being such a smart azzz that I make myself sick.Way to go brain.Wooohooooo I win , I win.Im so smart Im in constant pain and have no life.I winnnnn.Maybe if I become smarter I can paralyse myself into a coma and think my way out of it.Then I will rename myself "NEO VON AWESOME" the TMS Jedi.
KEV |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 00:51:56
"Im also noticing that the TMS sufferers are more intelligent which may add to the worry."
Aha!
This is the real problem, I think! We are so **** intelligent!
Seriously (sorta), have you noticed how much more intelligent and nuanced this forum is than many others?
x
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 20:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
Littlebird, seriously, there are actually just 3 types of people.
Those that can count and those that cannot. 
THAT'S VERY FUNNY! |
| westcoastram |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 20:30:15
I contribute on and off here on the site and I, for one, suffer from Body Dysmorphic Disorder.
I happen to be a guy and it tends to manifest itself in body image issues of size - I was a big time bodybuilder whose TMS destroyed his pasttime.
BDD is an equivalent of OCD as many other forms of body image issues are: Bulemia, Anorexia...etc...
I've seen a pyschotherapist ever since I started my TMS journey and she mentions how many of her chronic pain clients and TMS clients have some form of OCD. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 16:55:51
I can imagine OCD is TMSish, but it seems to me that it's harder to 'cure.' The rage-distraction story doesn't fit just like that. But if Howard Stern did it..
Littlebird, seriously, there are actually just 3 types of people.
Those that can count and those that cannot.
____________
Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 16:28:30
I do have off and on experiences with OCD behaviors. So does my son.
Whitris, I was really struck by your statement about how we fear letting go, because we may lose something forever or get punished for letting go at the wrong time, and so we get stuck. That's a big part of my battles with the perfectionism trait--wanting to always make a perfect decision and over-analyzing all the available data to try to do that. I like your solution.
Redsandro, I loved the binary joke--I had to immediately tell it to my son, who also found it very funny, and he's passing it on to his computer friends.
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| whitris |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 12:18:50
some armchair psycho-babble here:
OCD is about holding and letting go of things. We fear letting go, because we may lose something forever or get punished for letting go at the wrong time...toilet training issues (?) ...lots of ways to look at this. But as adults,this fear would naturally lead to rage...if we hold onto one thing, we cannot grab something else we need; we get stuck.
Solution: recognize that it is OK if we hold or let go..we won't die or lose love if we do. This can reduce subconscious rage....
I like John Bradshaw and his work on this from "a childhood in the family" perspective. Or else try several years of therapy. : ) |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 12:03:24
Howard Stern used TMS theory to cure himself of OCD. Since then, Dr. Sarno says he has regarded it as an equivalent.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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