| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 09:09:57
I'm &^$%$@%! losing this battle. 
I decided to start journaling, and I remember I kept a journal when I was younger! That includes the first few years of my RSI. I just rediscovered it. It's all very negative and dealing with lots of sad emotions. A big portion of the first pages is torn out. I remember each time I finished the first page, I didn't want it to be found even if I was dead for it didn't look good. Later I stopped because I could only whine, tho I secretly wanted it to be fun to read.
Anyway it didn't help me then. My brain decided to distract me even though I wrote about things.
How about you? Are you helped by journaling, or not at all? Are you pherhaps journaling because you think it helps, but you're not sure?
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/19/2006 : 06:08:56
I read this from an old thread and it makes lots of sense to me. It's not about reexperiencing emotions.
quote:
Originally posted by Carol
Something I recently learned about myself, in addition to my perfectionist tendencies, that will trigger symptoms, is the tendency to put things off that I need to deal with, whether they involve personal interactions or things that need to be done but not necessarily right away. I tend to put these things off as long as possible, but then I worry, and I have pain. I have learned that as part of my journaling I have to list things that need to be done or situations that need to be dealt with, and then just take care of them as soon as possible. I feel so much better when I do this. Maybe some of you have the same tendencies, and don't realize that they can contribute to your pain.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 00:38:26
Yes, I agree with Jim. It's not "re" experiencing because the emotions weren't experienced to begin with.
And it's not reliving them, either, because that can be retraumatizing. This can be confusing. I think of this as a mediation: there is now a 3rd party. Now we are perhaps accessing an old emotion/situation with a NEW consciousness that wasn't there when the stuff first happened. So it's like shining a light in the darkness. When we were kids we couldn't shine that light - we didn't have the perspective, which was supposed to have been provided by the parents (who were sometimes the perps or at least complicit in our pain).
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| Jim1999 |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 22:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
Thanks, I haven't seen that thread before, I was looking for something like that.
...
I read in that thread (Jim): "My unconscious mind needed the pain as a distraction until I dealt with the emotions" but how is reëxperiencing 'dealing with'?
Redsandro,
Dr. Sarno says that the purpose of the pain is to distract the conscious mind so that it does not become aware of the repressed emotions. Once the conscious mind becomes aware of the emotions, then there is no longer a need for the pain.
(By the way, "re-experiencing" might not be the right word. Many repressed emotions were never consciously felt to begin with, so journaling can lead to experiencing these emtions for the first time.)
I'm glad to hear that your Sarno book is arrived. Hopefully, that will answer many of your questions.
Jim |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 16:34:36
Hmm, I don't really have a reply.. for now. Just you say it like it is. Thanks for the message. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 12:02:09
quote:
I know it can work fast with me so I must be doing something wrong.
This is not true. You may be getting a recurrence as your mind tries very hard to continue distracting and protecting you from the difficult emotions. You may have released one issue, only to find you need to go deeper. Making uneven progress is normal. I can't say it enough times: RELAX and stop pressuring yourself. The fact that it did work almost certainly means it will work again. Your desperation to "do it right" will anger your unconscious, and only slow the process.
The TMS emotional journey is not fun. You won't be able to keep your "cool" -- you'll probably cry and feel sad and angry a lot. The first time I experienced the horrible depths of some of my feelings was when I first understood why I had RSI pain, why I would need that much physical pain to distract me. Because the emotional pain is intense. If you've had some intense stressful times (as it sounds like you have) and your reaction has mostly been to try to get through them, and put them behind you (as it sounds like), you have been repressing a lot and a lot will come back out. You may think you've experienced those bad times fully, but there's probably a lot that you just stuffed away.
I'm not saying this to discourage you, at all, but just to convey that this stuff can be tough to get through and can take a while to process, so if it takes time and is hard, it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. Go at your own pace.
Practical suggestions:
If you don't want to journal every day, don't (though it is helpful when you first start out, IME. But even when I was doing the Schechter workbook, I skipped a day sometimes).
If you don't want to miss appointments, do it before bedtime, or set a timer.
Remember that the key is just that you need to be aware of the existence of unconscious emotions, and believe that the pain is a defense against the emotions, and not something physical. When you get pain, think about what's happenning right then for you emotionally.
You wrote: quote:
Showing me the awesomeness of almost no complaints and then taking it away is not fair imo.
So you probably feel really angry about that. Get angry. It's okay for the anger to be about the pain, too.
Or choose a journal prompt to think about. Just don't panic about the pain itself.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 11:25:44
I wrote 2 a5 pages and with the thinking pauses it just felt like 15 minutes at the max.. dunno why.
But like I said, that one week went awesome and now it's worse. What am I doing wrong? That makes me feel insecure. I'm thinking come on then, chop chop (lol), let's at least subside the TMS to the point of that awesome week. Showing me the awesomeness of almost no complaints and then taking it away is not fair imo. If i'd only understand.. And even though it's making me pissed I understand you all propagate patience so I'll try to stop being frustrated about it for a while. 
It's the re-experiencing the messed up parts of my life that's not cool, especially since my life isn't that great to begin with. The crying is a side-effect, though I can't quite say looking at myself in the mirror shows a hilariously fun image then..
The books finally arrived! Man that Devided Mind is a big one.. at least I'm gonna be looking cool when reading such a big book in public. 
____________
Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 10:14:51
quote:
I did some journaling today and it easily took 45 minutes while I thought it took 15 minutes. (made me miss an appointment but that's beside the point :P) I cried and it's quite not-cool.
What made you think it took 15 minutes? Why would you care that it took longer other than missing your appointment?
Sounds like you want the "perfect recipe formula" for taking care of this TMS thing once and for all, and let's get on with it chop chop. TMS is going to take a little effort.
Also, why is crying not cool? Perhaps one factor of your TMS is that you don't ever get a chance to express emotion.
BTW, you're not losing this battle. You won't lose if you keep at it. The mind is going to take time to be re-programmed.
Regards,
Beth |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 03:40:58
Thanks, I haven't seen that thread before, I was looking for something like that.
But earlier, I did some journaling today and it easily took 45 minutes while I thought it took 15 minutes. (made me miss an appointment but that's beside the point :P) I cried and it's quite not-cool. It's mostly sadness and I don't understand how it's helping me. I cannot take it away.
For example, when I was younger, I sometimes felt like dying was the solution. I most definitely did NOT want to commit suicide or so, I just felt like... dying would be okay. This feeling went away, but thinking back it causes a lot of sadness. Later, with me being happier (and definitely not wanting to die btw), I almost died in an accident. I was in a fragile state a long time and for a few months I occasionally believed I WOULD die in a matter of days, making me very sad.
I cannot fix what happened. I cannot fix how I felt. There is more but I don't want to write a biography right now. The point is that the list of things I can do something about is hardly a list, while the unchangable fact list is quite long.
I read in that thread (Jim): "My unconscious mind needed the pain as a distraction until I dealt with the emotions" but how is reëxperiencing 'dealing with'?
I read more things I don't understand but since it worked for you, it must be true.. but the thing is I'm that guy at math who can only satisfactory use a given formula when I comprehend how it works.
____________
Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| Jim1999 |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 23:25:41
Redsandro,
Journaling was a key part of my recovery, and is also important in staying recovered. Here's is the thread where I discussed my journaling earlier: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1135&whichpage=1.
To stay recovered, I do not have to journal every day or every week, but it is necessary from time to time. For many TMS patients, on-going maintenance is required or the symptoms will come back. Even Dr. Sarno has to do on-going maintenance to avoid getting more migraine headaches.
As far as what the inner child wants you to do, using Dr. Sarno's approach doesn't mean you necessarily have to do what your inner child wants. The main thing is to be aware of how you feel on the inside, even if you don't act on what you feel. You may find situations where you need to act, but I doubt that this would mean watching Family Guy all day.
Jim
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| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 18:36:47
I missed chingborden's post even though there's a 22 minute interval.. illustrates the warp factor in which I typed that post (sarcasm). :P I think I've never heard of The Scott Brady book? I'm marking that one down for when my pile of unread books diminishes..
Journaling to cure seems right, but afaik Sarno did mention people could persue their lives normally at some point, which imo does not mean journalling 20 mins a day for the rest of our lives.
Nice quote, and lol @ the discovery :P The no passage of time idea is nice.
I think I'll have lots of starting points now for journaling. Still I'm concerned about people finding it. If someone you love is mad because of you say nasty stuff, I don't think "No you see, it's my INNER CHILD that's mad, not me!" will calm them down :P
quote:
I'm getting the sense that you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself and your treatment to WORK and FAST, and almost requiring immediate results
I'm sorry to say that's partially true. If I'd progressed very slowly I'd have more patience. But a week after reading TMP, when realising something, I had a SUDDEN cure. That lasted a week and now it's worsening. I'm losing faith. I know it can work fast with me so I must be doing something wrong. Or it was a temporal relief rule of attraction kind of thing, but nothing really happened. I don't believe that, but I fear rational me will make it a big idea in the head because of lack of explanations for that week.
Also a thought - Sometimes it's nice to do things, for example dishes if you haven't really talked to say your mother. There's a possibility and it's nice. But the child wants to watch Family Guy all day long, and gets pissed. Angry. Pain. Now who is the judge of what's nice to do and what not? Are we mindless bodies that want to do stuff, with a layer of consciousness giving us freedom to do what we want as long as we don't upset our child too much for doing different?
I know I'm exagerrating. But by doing that this whole issue makes me think of that radio controlled brain implanted rats experiment (truely happened and worked) where rats (child) want to do stuff but are permanently overruled by the radio controlled implant (conscious self), probably causing stress.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 18:00:50
Oh, that's funny! I didn't realize you didn't know I was me (what an odd sentence). I figured when you showed up on the forum that it must be you, because the name is similar. But I guess I have wildly different usernames for email, LiveJournal, and here, so it's quite hard to determine.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| MikeJ |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 15:42:49
OH!! So you're armchairlinguist?! I didn't know you frequented this forum! Oh the irony ... I was wondering why I agreed with so much of what armchairlinguist said, I thought "Hmm.. armchair is really intelligent. Yeah, that makes sense."
Haha .. wow! The name makes so much sense now. :-) I'm really pleasantly surprised. It's great to see you!
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 15:11:48
Aw, Mike quoted me! I feel awesome now.
No, the Schechter book is not free, but I'd be happy to share some of the questions, just need to dig it back up. Sorry to say you won't find much in Amir's book about journaling, but he does have good advice about breaking conditioning. TDM may give you more ideas about what psychology to explore. Also, no matter how many books you buy, TMS treatment is cheaper than any other kind. :-)
I did do a big investigation into what was going on in my life before and during the onset of my RSI. The key for me was to look at all the little things that were going on, go into depth about how I felt about each person, each class, each professor, each activity (I was in college, so those were the categories I used). I looked at how things were with family, friends, school, etc.
I also made a really big list of all the pressures I could think of, past and present, which is always a good starting point for later journaling. You can pick wherever feels most important. Interestingly, sometimes some big revelations come from events that seem small, because what seems small may be just a little crystallized example of a larger trend. (Like my mom making me clean my room, which I mentioned in my earlier post.)
I'm getting the sense that you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself and your treatment to WORK and FAST, and almost requiring immediate results from something, like journalling, that tends to produce gradual results as it slowly (probably over a few weeks or months) helps to dissipate the years -- YEARS -- of accumulated rage. I totally understand the impulse, but that's just another source of pressure, and another way that TMS can trap you. Have confidence that it'll happen eventually; allow yourself to do it at your own pace. Then you're more free from the ups and downs of the "false emotional life" your pain creates to "protect" you, and you can get to the real stuff.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| MikeJ |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 14:52:01
I would say past or present is irrelevant, but what's nagging you the most is. Focus on what you feel is a priority.
As for the inner child, a friend explained it in simple terms which I think may help, I quote:
We have an inner two-year-old that wants things her own
way, that gets mad and throws tantrums, etc. But in a more general
sense, I think of when Sarno says that there's no passage of time in
the unconscious. We are still two, four, seven, fifteen. We still have
all those experiences in us. We still hurt from things that we
experienced long ago. Some of those things have been processed,
grieved, but some (for TMS people) haven't been. The theory of inner
child therapists is that these experiences need to be processed and
grieved in order to move beyond our childhood experiences and
reactions. I've found this really enlightening. I try to go back to
experiences I had in the past and see how I felt about them then (not
how I feel now, with the perspective of more years). And also general
trends. And looking at recent stuff, thinking how I feel about it
truly, behind any defenses or intellectualization. I've become very
reluctant to acknowledge/feel strong feelings about things; this helps
me get back to them.
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| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 13:08:10
Is it by any chance free? A preformatted journal can't be that special can it? (I've ordered so much books lately, and some are still wrapped.) Anyway I'm expecting TDM and Fred Amir's book next week. I thought maybe the latter one has something about journaling.
Thanks for pointing stuff out. I read MBP but imo they are not very clear about the inner child, or I missed some points being not English and all.. By a while back I think you mean this:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2592
I printed it out and put it in my journal.
Do you think it's better to dig in the past or present? I always assumed the most rage originates from before the time the complaints started. I recently discovered what I thought was the most enraging in my life. Relief was severe, but apparantly it was enough rage for only a week of relief :P
____________
Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| chingborden |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 12:46:04
The Scott Brady book REALLY pushes journalling. Says it is essential. Before that I was kind of sporadic about it. Now I try to do it everyday for at least 20 minutes as he says. To be honest, I LOVE it. I have come to so many previously unrealized revelations about myself. I have actually felt myself calm down after some particularly grand moments of realization. I had no idea how so much of my past intertwined with my present. I really like the Brady book because it gives actual steps to follow each day. Things to think about and a long list of questions to ask yourself to spur your journaling. Sarno was great for the depth of information and his case studies but I feel like a can actually follow the Brady book and know what I need to do each day to get better. It really gave me the power to talk to my unconscious and make little aches and weird things go away instantly. Don't be thrown off by his different teminology (He calls it Autonimic Overload Syndrome AOS rather than TMS) It's still the same thing and he worked with Sarno. Even Sarno admitted that TMS was an outdated term but kept it for consistency.
Good luck,
Courtney
chingborden |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 11:02:03
It's very revealing to me that you tore out pages of your old journal to avoid looking bad to others -- even worrying about looking bad when you would be beyond all caring about such things! Sounds like you have a lot of TMS goodist in you -- very concerned about doing right by others, and being well-thought-of. I have a lot of this as well; it's very common and puts a lot of pressure on the inner child because it doesn't like to "be good". The inner child is primarily about YOU, and what YOU want, and how YOU feel.
I also noticed, when reading old journals, that mine are very analytical. These days they are more raw, and that's more helpful in releasing feelings. I also think that to be effective, journaling has to be done with an awareness of attempting to access repressed feelings and relieve pressure on the inner child.
Think about times when you put on a good face for others. When you were frustrated with someone but worked with them anyway, when you went to an event that you didn't want to go to, but smiled and said you had a good time. Times when you had to do the dishes or some other chore before getting to what you want. (My mom used to always make me clean my room before I could go to a friend's house. I've just recently realized how annoyed that makes me, even though now it's a totally internalized habit, and a "good habit", at that.)
You might try Dr. Schechter's structured journal -- I found it really helpful because it contains questions that are designed to focus you on helpful lines of inquiry. I also asked a question a while back about questions for journaling; if you search for that, those questions might help you.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 10:46:37
Never formally journaled, just here. |
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