| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| lfreeland |
Posted - 11/14/2006 : 17:39:23
I have successfully used Sarno's technique's to rid myself of back pain - bulging disc was the diagnosis. I was just diagnosed with a medial meniscus tear - surgery recommended. I can accept that the tear should not cause pain. However, will my knee be unstable? I am an athlete - mainly competing in triathlons - swimming, biking and running. I also like to ski, play tennis..... I also have a toddler that needs a Mom with climbing, jumping, cartwheeling and general playing abilities. Does the tear need to be repaired? Or does Sarno not think that the tear should limit my athletic endeavors? |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| carol r. |
Posted - 11/17/2006 : 12:39:17
my firend is going through the same thing. i have a post under carol R 11/17. you should read it. you are making the right decision to see a TMS doctor. my friend is denying that it could be a manifestation of TMS and right now is scheduled for surgery. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 19:48:16
quote:
Originally posted by lfreeland
My MRI clearly showed a tear according to my doc. He is actually not one to always recommend surgery, but did in my case. I really don't want surgery....
...I once said I love TMS, because with it I always know that my aches and pains are not real. Once I remember TMS, I can ignore the pain and get back to swimming, biking and running. I find it confusing as an athlete - there are so many aches and pains and always very good reasons to have them - like overtraining.... blah, blah, blah....
Not everything is TMS. Dr. Sarno mentions this in his latest book when he says that patients come to him with "legitimate" injuries, that he dx's as such. Thinking everything is TMS and using that as a rational to "play through it" may not always be the wisest thing to do. It may be a powerful placebo effect but on ocassion may not be the right thing to do.
A legitimate injury from over-use or accidental trauma may require various levels of therapy from just RICE allowing the body time to heal itself to PT with a professional or anything in-between.
What's the hurry to do surgery. Just because a doc who isn't knife happy recommends it this time doesn't mean he's right again. I've played tennis with too many docs and shrinks to trust their calls. They are human just like you and me. Don't turn over all the power of your health to them.
Slow things down, and look into conservative approaches.
Like I said before, anyone who dx's an injury over the internet is an idiot. There are way too many variables. I can't see your knee, I don't know what's inside your head. As long as you are conscious, YOU are responsible for making the decisions regarding YOUR health and YOU will be the one to have to live with the results of those decisions. If the doc makes the wrong call for you and bothces things up he may say he's sorry and blame it on an un-forseen outcome--but it's YOUR knee and not his.
Evaluate all the data and by the time you do, your knee may have healed all on it's own. I've been to two TMS docs who said my hip is NOT TMS and to get a hip-replacement sooner than later. That story has been going on for ten years now and I'm in no hurry obviously. I work, I drive, I sleep, I play two to six hours of competitive doubles tennis a day and PT with 30 to 60 minutes of deep water running using an AquaJogger belt.
So what's the worst that will happen?--They will have less of my femur to lop-off if I ever go the replacement route. I could just act my age and become a golfer. |
| lfreeland |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 18:16:58
Thanks for your 2 cents Doug! You guys are all comfirming what I hope for. I have an appointment with a TMS doc at the end of this month just to confirm. In the meantime..... I am NOT scheduling surgery. I might even try to run tomorrow! |
| salamander |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 15:18:07
Sarno says in the MBP that tears in the meniscus are often blamed for knee pain, when in fact it is TMS. ie...he does not feel that miniscus tears are responsible for knee pain. Just like the bulging disk in the back, the meniscus tears are often easily identifiable on MRI. If pain is present, then the torn meniscus is blamed for pain. This is an interesting topic for me because I've had knee pain that varies in intensity for a year now. It started within a week of breaking up with a girlfriend of long standing. Coincidence?
I broke down and saw a orthopedic Dr. and received an MRI. The MRI showed tears in both my medial and lateral meniscus. However, this doctor was unconcerned about it and thought that my pain was from something else. This was coming from one of the most highly regarded knee doctors in the country. He went on to say that for someone active and 40, that my knee image was very typical for my age. I'm convinced that the soft pliable miniscus will suffer from wear and tear as one ages. This doctor indicated that many people over the age of 40 (if memory serves 30%) have miniscus tears with no problems. A friend of mine has had a tear in his knee since he was 19 (he's 39 now). The doctor that did orthroscopic surgery on his knee decided to just leave it along. My friend has been fine ever since.
When you really think about it, how on earth can a meniscus tear really cause pain? We are talking about tears that are usually not more than a few millimeters in length. I'm no doctor, but I personally feel that the only time it is necessary to surgically remove a torn miniscus is if it is causing the knee joint to lock. Short of that, I would be inclinded to leave it alone....which is what I'm doing.
Just my two cents....
Regards,
Doug
|
| Michele |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 13:57:16
You're right, as an athlete, it can be confusing. Obviously, you CAN get injured and extreme stress such as training for, and running, long distances can be taxing to the body. I always think first of TMS, which I will continue to do. Good luck, and keep us posted how you're doing! |
| lfreeland |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 12:24:15
Interesting. My knee is not so painful as yours. I had swelling and pain, but not excrutiating pain. My MRI clearly showed a tear according to my doc. He is actually not one to always recommend surgery, but did in my case. I really don't want surgery. I want to believe it is TMS. I have a history of it, I think. I have never been officially dignosed. I once said I love TMS, because with it I always know that my aches and pains are not real. Once I remember TMS, I can ignore the pain and get back to swimming, biking and running. I find it confusing as an athlete - there are so many aches and pains and always very good reasons to have them - like overtraining.... blah, blah, blah.... |
| Michele |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 12:11:20
I'm currently waiting for the results of an MRI on my knee. Over 6 weeks ago it started to hurt, after a particularly stressful week, both physically and emotionally (ran a half marathon, got sick, sister diagnosed with cancer, biked 20 miles). Knowing TMS, I continued to exercise and it continued to swell up, extremely painful, and very warm. I then did nothing for a week or so, pain still there. I journaled, I read Sarno, I treated it as TMS. I started exercising again, it continued to swell, excruciatingly painful, and it was warm. I finally went to the doctor who told me that if there is a piece of cartilage floating around, then every time you exercise it will (may?) become irritated and painful. I waited it out another 10 days, took the suggested dose of Aleve (I never take it otherwise), and kept exercising.
On Monday, I finally called the doc and said "to hell with it - get me an MRI!"
Sorry, but 6 weeks of a swollen and painful knee, I'm going the conventional route. I have to work, I have to walk around alot, I have to exercise, and if something can be surgically fixed, then I'm all for it.
Now if there is no tear . . . then I'll start over. :) |
| whitris |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 11:53:50
3 years ago I tore my meniscus just standing up too quick from a crouch and my knee swelled up. Very painful for a week. I did go to the doctor,who said to just wait and see.
Funny that the injury happened on a particularly stressful (repressed stress I might add) day.
It healed on its own. I had to be careful doing yoga for a while. I played tennis on it very soon, even when it hurt to walk. It was a strange injury, probably TMS-related and did not warrant surgery. |
| lfreeland |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 11:49:34
Thanks!
I will try to find a TMS doc near me. I had the same knee surgery on the other knee and swore I would never have it again. But I really want to continue competing. If I know that it is possibly TMS, I will postpone the surgery and do the work necessary to eliminate the pain. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 10:57:28
Without finding a citation from Sarno, I recall that minsicus tear is the conventional medical/industrial answer to most knee pain. Images are taken and the patient is shown a tear and often told to do surgery. It is the knee equivalent of "gray hair of the spine". In other words, a normal anomaly that is present in most people, some experiencing pain and some not. Could well be TMS. No one in their right mind is going to DX you on a website.
Look it up in Sarno's books and see if the circumstances fit your situation. I would not rush into surgery. Of late I have heard more surgical HORROR stories than positive outcomes: serious staph infections resulting in weeks in the hospital, severed sciatic nerves ruining lives.
IMHO do the pre-op PT, take the percodan and morphine, visualize the surgery, do the post-op PT, skip the cutting and you'll be better off. Buy Sarno's books and if you have a stubborn case of TMS get some TMS specific psycho-therapy.
Don't rush into surgery that may not be reversible, (see archive's for Polly's posts on surgery). It's hard to improve on the work of the Celestial Archetect. Seek out second and third opinions and ask if there is a "conservative" treatment approach for your knee?
Year's ago, prior to my Sarno enlightenment, I had a knee injury, (13 marathons, national senior tournament tennis player, skier) and I did the usual PT with a good and trusted sports injury trainer and it healed in several weeks and not a twinge since. Can't even remember what side it was on. To me the real test if a part is fixed, is when you can't remember which side it was on. That takes about a year to forget which side.
Good Luck,
tt |
| JaneLeslie |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 10:47:50
Hi,
I am not an expert on tears, but I have a TMS neighbor who has an "injury" every other second and now claims she has the same tear you are speaking of. She will not have surgery because she is high risk (obese, older, etc.) However, she does not see a TMS doc so I don't know what a TMS doc would say. She is in a "boot" and the hope is that it will heal by itself.
Your best bet would be to go to a TMS doc and ask him/her. I think TarPit yoga website has a list and you can find one in your general area. You don't want to leave this issue to a guess.
Sorry I don't know more!
Jane
|
| lfreeland |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 09:39:49
Can anybody help??? Any comments would be appreciated!! |
|
|
