| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/09/2006 : 09:19:34
For the ones not knowing, I'm in the middle of conquering my RSI. It's going the right way.
Today I did quite some work on the computer. I disabled the pause software. No micropauses. I guess that's a tool made up by someone who don't know TMS, and I wanted to 'test' being ignorant for that. After some hours I got pain at my elbows, but at the inner side. Made me think why. Is it because of swimming yesterday? Nah I should have felt it all along. Is it TMS trying another spot for pain? Or did I work too long without pause for real this time?
Being able to work for an hour or more is totally new for me. I don't know these things, and I'm affraid to find my limits by trial-and-error. Since all recommendations I've ever learnt are based on findings by people unaware of TMS I wonder.. What is healthy computer use?
How long do you use the computer per day? How long are your computersessions before taking how long a break?
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 06:55:37
I don't want to choose what's too much, because you know as well as me that that would be a TMS free card for the brain.
I would call something physical when it's not psychosomatic. Like when biting your own finger off, your psyche has nothing to do with it, at least not in a TMS way.
I realize no one can answer this... but the fact that probably every TMS symptom that's in vogue originated from a real non-TMS physical problem is a tiny bitsy scary.
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No Hope = No Fear. |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 05:54:32
That raises the question which is always popping up: what’s TMS and what is physical?
In my mind there is no clear-cut dividing line and I’m sure not even 2 TMS doctors would always agree. Which is why I think … it’s up to you.
If you want to believe that too much typing will cause pain, then of course it will. You might like to decide exactly how much this is, down to the minute, and write it down so that your body will have a reminder and know exactly when to feel pain. 
It’s your choice…
By the way, I like the way you use small letters to convey your thoughts. It’s very effective.
Hilary N |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 14:34:42
I am having longer periods of complaint-free living!!!
But these are also holidays, dunno whats gonna be going on when they're over.
Anyway, on 'what is healthy computer usage';
quote:
Originally posted by h2oskier25
Moderate computer use is HOWEVER MUCH YOU WANT. Period. Don't buy any of the crap out there re: RSI. RSI is Always TMS.
I was thinking about what Dauglass Hoffman sais in TDM page 308, about symptoms coming to be for the first time:
quote:
Thus, the carpal tunnel syndrome from a structural cause (an uncommon occurance) becomes the template for the disorder to occur with relative frequency as a psychosomatic disorder.
He is exampling cts, but it goes for all. Although uncommon, it does illustrate that overuse is possible. That's why my head re-asks the question. I had a few days at work where I computered full time with only 2 breaks during another rush job, and I didn't really have pain. If I would be doing that every day, would real rsi emerge?
Q: What is real RSI?
A: When the I comes from RS
hmmmz
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No Hope = No Fear. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 02:01:48
I understand. But I was like 80% cured for a week, then a setback for almost a week, then 90% cured, then a few days setback again, 90% cured again.. and I can computer with no problems again when I am painfree, but as soon as I computer for an extended period of time, it comes back like I have no control at all. And I know I hit the string, why else would I have these cured weeks and occasional backpain (symptom imperative) recently?
This is driving me crazy.
But like Kelvin said in another thread tho,quote:
Originally posted by kelvin
In my opinion, the instructions on how to journal which are found in "The Divided Mind" are the most helpful.
so I guess at least after finishing those books I should know an updated version of 'the program.' If after that the syndrome is still untweakable, maybe I should concider therapy.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 23:10:58
Quote Redsandro:
"I also remember him writing that long term chronic pain experiences go away completely, simply by understanding why it's there"
"Once the patient is aware that back pain (substitute RSI) results from repressed anger or anxiety, the subconscious mind will discontinue its trick, and the pain will stop."
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OK, I think what you are saying is that you read the book and accept the Good Doctor's theory of TMS--why do you still have RSI? Is that correct?
An overnight "cure" may happen to a FEW people who read the books or see the doctor--but most take longer. It may have taken your mindbody a lifetime to create the unconscious thinking patterns that cause your psychosomatic symptoms. For most people it takes some time. It will vary from person to person. Some of his patients consciously wholheartedly accept his theory, but their unconscious won't. They will need psychotherapy.
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| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 18:01:31
As interesting as you might find my interpretation of your colors, I just read a documantairy about world war propaganda and usage of colors. Red and yellow are for war and victory or something. Which is actually nice if it's about the TMS. But I didn't think of it that way. And we didn't just give Wall street and New Amsterdam, we traded it for something but I forgot. We don't have thanksgiving anyway :P For the moment I don't want to keep replying on who is or is not 'expecting' what to be remembered of whom and what a case of anything like or unlike beer might change in that because that's beside the point, and I would probably go on forever about things if I didn't have these darn flareups all the time. :(
On to your Sarno quote, I don't see how that's relevant in this specific thread (and how it has to do with the emphasized words in my quote) except for 'be patient.' But then again maybe my not being english makes it hard for me to understand :P and as I said I have yet to read the newest book, but for now, with MBP in mind, the 'program' is 'read the book, knowledge cures.' Well..
Here's one I do understand with less complicated words.
TMS is the result of reduced blood flow to affected soft tissues. Although extremely painful, the condition is harmless; what is going on is that the subconscious mind is creating pain to distract the person’s attention from a stressful relationship or situation.
Once the patient is aware that back pain (substitute RSI) results from repressed anger or anxiety, the subconscious mind will discontinue its trick, and the pain will stop.
It's like being honest when you say: "No mom I haven't eaten all the cookies!"
Mom: "I don't believe you." |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 15:07:50
Hi Red,
The colors are a little Thanksgiving theme, which we are celebrating here in New Amsterdam, not at all furious. Interesting that you interpreted them as signifying "furious", a little Rhorschach into your unconscious.
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quote Red:
"But I did mention I'm dutch in my first topic and some other posts."
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No I didn't remember that you were from the Netherlands. As you can see I am quite prolific here and don't keep records. If I were getting paid for this and were a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, I would keep a file and take notes. It's interesting that you would think I would retain all that. Send me a case of Heineken and I'll start a dossier on you.
It's interesting what countries TMS people cluster in. There are a number from the Netherlands, Canada, UK and USA. Must be something in the beer.
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quote Red:
"But for now I do not concider occasional flareups that can be defeated in minutes a sign that the specific manifestation of the syndrome is not yet defeated, whereas I do for 'flareups' that last as long as the moments when the pain is gone."
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In regards to your looking for a "specific manifestation" causality for your TMS, I just read in THE DIVIDED MIND on page 182 :
"Patients are routinely advised that they need not strive to change their personalities in order to be successful since so much is made of the perfectionist and goodist traits as well as other problematic personality characteristics like feelings of inferiority, narcisissism, and dependecy. One cannot change one's inherent traits, though they can be consciously modified. For example, the person who feels perpetually compelled to make a doormat of himslelf and do nice things for others can take stock and decide to curb the tendency.
Another important therapeutic reality emphasized in the lecture is that the unconscious will resist change so that one must work on the program consistenly, and be patient."
Hope that Helps Red, I don't know if you all celebrate anything like Thanksgiving over there but thanks for giving us Wall Street, it helps keep me in tennis balls.
Cheers,
tt
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| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 10:48:48
For a moment I was scared about the colors of your post.. it looks really furious...
Anyway, I cannot quote the good doctor for his book is not with me at the moment, but I remember him having these occasional issues which he could eliminate at the same very moment. I also remember him writing that long term chronic pain experiences go away completely, simply by understanding why it's there. Maybe he has different views in his newest book, which I am yet to read. But for now I do not concider occasional flareups that can be defeated in minutes a sign that the specific manifestation of the syndrome is not yet defeated, whereas I do for 'flareups' that last as long as the moments when the pain is gone.
No offence taken; I just updated my profile. But I did mention I'm dutch in my first topic and some other posts. I once told you that your posts are difficult for me to read, which might have been a personal bell-ringer  But the fact is my profile was empty. Let this be an excuse for al my weird grammar and unfortunate choices of words. I think I'm quite good in overall English writing, but when it becomes complicated I know I can mess up. 
I am not confident with lobotomy. Esp. when I see Tom Cruise in his offscreen time. But seriously, people can do weird stuff to other people mentally. I'm not sure it's impossible to bake-in this TMS knowledge to such a scary extend that it's constantly defeating TMS in an autopilot manner.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 09:50:35
"...having the pain again today, which I understand must be TMS, again, which is odd, since in MBP Sarno sais once you comprehend the story and your complaints go away (the latter kind of happend to me) they stay away. Guess not." --------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Red,
WRONG! I don't recall him ever saying anything to that effect. The Good Doctor gets TMS pain himself. He makes it go away. In his initial work on migraines which he got, they would keep coming back, he would get better at stopping them with practice.
He says TMS pain is part of the Human Condition. We are always subsceptible to it. What we can do is LEARN to recognize it better to stop it in it's tracks--feeling twinges of it rather than letting it take over our lives and becoming chronic pain. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't forget English is not my mother tongue and for some things I don't know many sophisticated words."-------------------------------------------------------------------
No offense Red, but how would I have any way of knowing that? No where in your profile do have you given any info as to where you are from. Most of us state our country next to our net-name. It would be helpful if everyone would fill out some info in their profiles. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I wish there was some Landmark Scientologie Source kind of session, but then to brainwash the TMS out of your system."--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is such a procedure, Tom Cruise had one, it's called a lobotomy.  |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 04:14:22
Don't forget English is not my mother tongue and for some things I don't know many sophisticated words. It's not the slamming around kind of bruised, but this internal pain-no unconfortable-yes feeling I have when RSI starts again. I guess I meant 'fatigue' but I'm definitely having the pain again today, which I understand must be TMS, again, which is odd, since in MBP Sarno sais once you comprehend the story and your complaints go away (the latter kind of happend to me) they stay away. Guess not. 
About the back thing, two physiotherapists confirmed it. I also said it wasn't really bothering me in the way of health anxiety, but maybe the gremlin thinks otherwise. You're right about the strong back thing. I've read it before. After Fred Amir's book I'm definitely reading TDM, but since the pain mostly subsided previously I postponed reading for the weekends, since I thought with my new gained health I would be able to save this semester at school.
I wish there was some Landmark Scientologie Source kind of session, but then to brainwash the TMS out of your system.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 21:52:16
Red,
Well you certainly have some unique outlooks on the human body. You can't "bruise" your arm from keyboarding, unless someone picks it up and bangs you with it realy hard. Bruising is when you have a physical trauma like being hit by something and you have bleeding beneath the skin, the black and blue spot. If you havn't keyboarded much due to your TMS/rsi, and now you are going whole hog, then you are experiencing fatigue. Your forearms, hands, fingers all have muscles that can get tired. I cannot, as I sit here typing conceive of how anyone could cause trauma by typing. You would just get tired and your hands would spasm and make you stop for a while.
From your other posts you mentioned your back "deformity". It sounds like you just have vertebrae that are more prominent, a genetic trail you share with your mom and grandma. You said this back problem was dx'ed by your mom. I think this qualifies as a "wives tale", no offense to your mom intended.
From the themes you address in your threads, they are self-dx'ed infermities. I was going to recommend you read some anatomy books to get a better understanding of the human body. But that could possibly lead you to more focusing on the structural. I recommend that you just read Dr. Sarno's books. All his books teach a good understanding of the human anatomy and it's GREAT natural STRENGTH.
If something is too heavy for you to lift, you would not be able to lift it. Your body is just as strong as it needs to be to do all the normal things it needs to do. Read Sarno's books and pay attention to what he says about the human body and it's great inherent strength. Your's is just as strong as anyone else's. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/22/2006 : 19:46:32
Today I had to take on a big long rush job or just don't start it at all.. my choice, but I decided to take a challenge, to examine my borders. I did mouse intensive DTPing for 3 hours, without any pause!! This is really a breakthrough, because I usually pause a lot. But after 2 hours, my (mouse using) arm began to feel bruised. I decided to ignore it and continue, since I was 2/3 on the way of finishing in time. I succeeded! But now this feeling... is it TMS? Or is it muscle soreness which goes away in a few days? I have recently computered almost a workday a few times, but I always pause a lot. Could it be that my arms need 'training'?
Any RSI-conquerors that can share some restcomplaint experiences? How long does it take to become 100% confident and 100% cured like a lot of people claim possible? I know it's different for many people, but I would like to know about you anyway.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| carbar |
Posted - 11/12/2006 : 16:16:35
hey, it's great to read this thread. I don't know if I realized how fully everyone on here was engaged in computer work.
Part of the reason I'm working as a teacher right now is coz it was a career path where computing wasn't an essential skill. And though I do love many aspects of it, I'm still drawn to web development work, so it's very encouraging to read your stories!!!
Thanks!!! |
| floorten |
Posted - 11/11/2006 : 03:35:05
I worked for years on the computer, often doing 8-10 hour stints in a row. No problems at all until one day I thought to myself "wouldn't it be bad if I got RSI", and then within a week I had it!!
RSI pain is totally TMS. If this example doesn't prove how it's created by the mind then I don't know what does!
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
| Jim1999 |
Posted - 11/10/2006 : 23:20:46
Redsandro,
I use a computer eight hours a day at work. Before I recovered from fibromyalgia, I used to take a lot of precautions when using the computer at work: using a wrist rest, different keyboard, etc. I used to hardly ever use the computer at home, since I was worried I might lose my ability to work.
Now that I've recovered, I use the computer as much as I want. I play games and surf the net after work with no fear that this will cause "damage".
I took a gradual approach to resuming normal activities and giving up my precautions. Some people might recover faster with a more sudden approach, while others might experience setbacks.
Jim |
| Dave |
Posted - 11/10/2006 : 09:20:12
quote:
How long do you use the computer per day? How long are your computersessions before taking how long a break?
If you ask these questions it is counterproductive. You're basically saying that to avoid symptoms you need to take breaks. That reinforces the thinking that the symptoms have a structural cause.
That said, don't lose sight of common sense. RSI is TMS, that's true. But if you type 100 words a minute for 4 hours straight, then the muscles in your fingers, wrists, and arms are going to get tired and possibly a little sore. Your eyes as well. It is common sense to take breaks now and then, but do it for your overall health, rather than as a mechanism to counteract certain symptoms. |
| cheeryquery |
Posted - 11/10/2006 : 03:11:48
quote:
What are your opinions toward people who work, for instance, in a factory where they have to hang frames on a convairbelt above them all day long, sort of continuously heavy lifting, and after 10 years get RSI? Is that real RSI?
What is "real"? IMO, this worker is most likely sick to death of his job but doesn't want to face it. So no, it isn't real RSI.
Regarding computers: mostly, I have no problem working on the computer for 12 or more hours a day. But at times, just touching my keyboard causes the most exquisite pain in my finger taps (I'm using a laptop with touchpad). There is no doubt it is TMS. |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/10/2006 : 02:59:34
I did an all-in-like gradual approach, ignoring 'starterpain' pain but knowing I'd stop if the pain became too severe or made me feel numb again. I was 'lucky' to have had this severe inflammation a month earlier that made me skip the computer, leaving me with hardly any pain when I started the TMS approach. That made it easier to start.
What are your opinions toward people who work, for instance, in a factory where they have to hang frames on a convairbelt above them all day long, sort of continuously heavy lifting, and after 10 years get RSI? Is that real RSI? I would agree it's a different kind of stress on the arms than computer use. It's not my job, but I know some people and I have to be re-educated now.
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 11/10/2006 : 01:15:35
quote:
So when my brain fully gives up the trick and I'll be able to do 8 hours of computer related work... I can still play PC games at home if I'm bored, whithout damaging my arms?
YES! The whole point is that the mouse/keyboard isn’t damaging your arms. I, too, use the computer all day at work (sometimes I don’t get up from it for hours), then I come home and surf the Net. My life is no longer bounded by all those rules: taking a break every 20 minutes (how can you do any meaningful work if you’re interrupted every 20 mins?!), sitting in a certain position, etc. etc.
With regard to how you approach it at the moment: there are 2 basic approaches to returning to activity with any form of TMS. Some people like an all-out return and are able to work through any pain which might come, others prefer a gradual approach, because it can take a while for your unconscious to accept the TMS diagnosis, even after your conscious mind has accepted it. It depends on how scared you are of the pain itself. I’m a complete coward with pain, so I took the gradual approach and slowly increased from about 5 minutes a day to full time in 6 months. I wasn’t in a hurry (I had my voice recognition so I could still work when I wasn’t using the keyboard/mouse) and I didn’t want any flare-ups because I hate pain.
From the sounds of it I think your recovery will be much quicker than mine, whichever approach you use.
Hilary N |
| Redsandro |
Posted - 11/09/2006 : 15:42:21
So when my brain fully gives up the trick and I'll be able to do 8 hours of computer related work... I can still play PC games at home if I'm bored, whithout damaging my arms?
That's pretty darn cool!! 
Haven't played in years!
But seriously, thanks for that pointer. I will have more confidence in pain being TMS. Muhaha I'm starting to like this..
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
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