| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jeff |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 09:38:29
I am still relatively new to TMS, but I have always wondered whether it is possible to have both TMS and some other condition that, together, result in the pain symptoms. One TMS-friendly doctor I am seeing has said it might be worth checking out whether I could possibly have a yeast overgrowth (candidiasis) as a contributing factor for my pain symptoms. While I am amenable to exploring that possibility, it seems somewhat inconsistent with the TMS thesis. Has anyone else explored whether a yeast overgrowth has contributed to their symptoms?
Jeff |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 18:27:07
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
[quote]Originally posted by Jeff
"I think you have to be careful about the "if you've never heard of it" approach to dismissing things. I had never heard about TMS before, and my first instinct was to dismiss it as fad quackery, but I now believe it has real potential."
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You make a good point Jeff. The Good Doctor has had regrets about the TMS nomenclature himself. His earlier works dealt mainly with back stuff, thus the "Myositis" which refers to muscles.
He has greatly expanded the realm of the original theory to encompass many other physcial as well as affective conditions. He re-jiggered "Tension Myositis Syndrome" to "The MindBody Syndrome" to fit the acronym TMS.
In earlier books he used the term "psychogenic" a lot. In his latest etiration of his theory, THE DIVIDED MIND, I am heartend to read that he uses the universaly familiar psychological term "psychosomatic".
When people ask me what I am reading about in the hot-tub, I answer: "I'm reading about psychosomatic medicine", and then they say "oh" and not much else.
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| Suz |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 12:17:54
Me too - thanks for all the comments to everyone.
Jeff - I totally understand what you mean about taking medecine for certain conditions - sometimes you have to. However, there is a fine line. For example, I had to take antibiotics for a nasty sinus infection - brought on by a lowered immune system -brought on by my brain in response to stress at work.
When it comes to yeast infections and the "leaky guy syndrome" - adjusting diet and taking all those supplements for years really do feed into the problem. I have never felt better when I finally accepted that it was all TMS. It is so unbelievably freeing to be able to eat all those big NO no foods. I asked Sarno directly and he said that Yeast infections/candidiasis is exactly the same as teh back pain. It can be switched off in the same way. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 11:56:42
[quote]Originally posted by Jeff
"I think you have to be careful about the "if you've never heard of it" approach to dismissing things. I had never heard about TMS before, and my first instinct was to dismiss it as fad quackery, but I now believe it has real potential."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You make a good point Jeff. The Good Doctor has had regrets about the TMS nomenclature himself. His earlier works dealt mainly with back stuff, thus the "Myositis" which refers to muscles.
He has greatly expanded the realm of the original theory to encompass many other physcial as well as affective conditions. He re-jiggered "Tension Myositis Syndrome" to "The MindBody Syndrome" to fit the acronym TMS.
In earlier books he used the term "psychogenic" a lot. In his latest etiration of his theory, THE DIVIDED MIND, I am heartend to read that he uses the universaly familiar psychological term "psychosomtic".
When people ask me what I am reading about in the hot-tub, I answer: "I'm reading about psychosomatic medicine", and then they say "oh" and not much else. |
| Jeff |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 11:26:34
Thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate your taking the time to address this issue. I am finding this very helpful.
Jeff |
| Mary Ann |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 11:19:44
quote:
If TMS causes you to have an upset stomach, you still would take pepto bismol for it. And if TMS causes you to have a yeast overgrowth in your gut, then you should undertake dietary and other responses as appropriate. I think you can do that and believe it is TMS at the same time, and to pursue the TMS approach to curing the problem.
I don't think you really have the point of TMS if this is your thought process. Yes, sometimes it is appropriate to use temporary measures for symptoms (like pepto for stomach pain, or advil for a sore back), but you don't treat the symptoms in getting rid of TMS, you think psychologically. You avoid the physical otherwise your brain wins the distraction war.
I can definitely back up Suz that candidiasis is not "real". I suffered from yeast infections for years and followed all sorts of treatments. I was self-diagnosed with "leaky gut" and followed a restrictive diet for 3 years. Finally I realized it was all TMS and gave up the diet and everything was fine.
The kicker was taking 7 courses of antibiotics over 2 months last summer (including cipro) trying to treat a recurrent sinus infection. It turned out not to be an infection at all but rather an eye inflammation that cleared up with a course of steriods. Throughout that whole time I suffered not one ill effect from the antibiotics. If anyone should have, it should have been me. But I didn't believe it would harm me anymore, so it didn't.
Please don't let the "yeast" industry try to convince you otherwise. This is nothing more than TMS plain and simple.
Mary Ann |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 11:06:40
When I first encountered the TMS theory, I decided that my back and neck pain were TMS and my arms were RSI. Then my chiropractor said that the TMS theory can explain some of the pain from an RSI, but mechanical factors are also involved, and therefore I needed to be treated physically too. Both turned out to be completely wrong. It was all TMS. I recovered by stopping treatment, not by continuing it.
If something is TMS, the problem will go away when you address the TMS issues. Anything else you do will be an unecessary (and potentially expensive, distracting, and problem-perpetuating) placebo. That goes for candida just as much as for RSI. If it is TMS (and I believe it is) then you should treat it that way.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Jeff |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 11:01:17
I think you have to be careful about the "if you've never heard of it" approach to dismissing things. I had never heard about TMS before, and my first instinct was to dismiss it as fad quackery, but I now believe it has real potential. My only comment about candidiasis is the following. If TMS causes you to have an upset stomach, you still would take pepto bismol for it. And if TMS causes you to have a yeast overgrowth in your gut, then you should undertake dietary and other responses as appropriate. I think you can do that and believe it is TMS at the same time, and to pursue the TMS approach to curing the problem. I just don't see why you should throw away other remedies that may accelerate the healing process at the same time as one pursues a TMS cure. I do agree that it makes no sense to go overboard on the candidiasis DX by pursuing expensive medical tests or going to other extremes in an effort to fight Leaky Gut Syndrome. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 09:55:37
Good post Suz !
I was staying out of this one since it sounded like a womens's issue, but the name of the "dis-ease" is rather intrigueing I must say. How is it pronounced?...candy-ass? candide-ass-is? like the Voltaire play?
Generaly if the malady is something one has never heard of it's probably TMS. There just aren't that many new diseases out there that our forebearers in the cave didn't suffer from. |
| Suz |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 07:39:40
DR Ziggles - THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I need to stress to elsefive - You are barking up the wrong tree. I am so sorry to be so blunt - but I absolutely must. I spent years - and I mean YEARS feeding into this Candidiasis diagnosis. I know all about bacterial dysbiosis - I was told I had leaky gut syndrome. They told me that was why I felt tired all the time, had bloating, gas, digestive problems. For 10 years, I avoided sugars, carbohydrates - it DOMINATED my life. It was not my fault - the doctors told me that was the problem. I also had the chronic sciatica. When I discovered Sarno 2 years ago and finally my back pain went away. In the last year, I started to reevaluate all my unusual physical symptoms.
The "yeast infection" syndrome - ALL TMS, I REPEAT, ALL TMS.
I understand that this is extremely hard to accept - and so the symptoms continue. It has us gripped with the fear.
I have slowly started to introduce all these forbidden foods. I mean - chocolate, dairy, sugar, carbohydrates. I have not eaten these for Years. The symptoms came on at the beginning, but they now they are virtually non existent. I don't have the fatigue. I have not had one single yeast infection - not one. I was getting them before because I was telling myself I would get one. The brain will latch on to anything for a distraction.
Please please - anyone out there who has been diagnosed with this mysterious and ABSOLUTELY BOGUS yeast infection nonsense - stop. Imagine how exicting it woudl be for you not to have to monitor everything you eat, not to take nystatin, vast quantities of acidophilus, get multiple tests to see if the gut has stopped leaking etc. etc. This is all TMS - plain and simple. Candidiasis is one more trendy syndrome - just like back pain, food allergies, acid reflux.
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| Jeff |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 15:04:19
I agree that candidiasis is one of those conditions that may vary from one person to another as to how much it is TMS-caused. I do not think it is fair to consider it as always being TMS, or that ignoring physical treatments altogether is the way to go. In some cases (e.g., someone takes a lot of antibiotics), I don't think it is fair to assume it is 100 percent TMS-caused. Still, I agree that TMS can cause GI tract issues (upset stomach, acid reflux, etc.), and in some cases candidiasis might be entirely TMS. I think it ought to be possible to combine both TMS and physical treatments in a realistic way to best address this problem. If it turns out that TMS is a major part of it, and I don't address the TMS portion proactively enough, then the problem will persist despite dietary changes, etc. Time will tell. |
| drziggles |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 15:01:16
elsfive, I would disagree with you completely and say that there is no such thing as "candidiasis" as you are using the term. All of the symptoms can be explained, according to the TMS theory, by the repressed emotions and their effect on the mind/body.
There is such a thing as candidiasis, but this is a life-threatening, systemic infection of the bloodstream by fungi, usually in an immune-suppressed individual. The purported imbalance of bacteria in the digestive tract and subsequent fungal issues in "candidiasis" as you mean it do not exist and are a red herring. This is another attempt to explain the cause of TMS symptoms, and in my opinion is incorrect (see the prior discussion on Cipro as a cause of TMS symptoms--another false theory). Focusing exclusively on the TMS work is the way to get better, as continuing to believe that you have some sort of physical cause for your symptoms will only hinder your recovery.
Naturally, you should consult with your doctor before making any medical decisions. |
| elsfive |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 14:44:20
Jeff
I too am relatively new to TMS but have dealing with candidiasis for many years. I am not sure how much you already know about the condition but in a nutshell it occurs as a result of an inbalance between the good and bad bacteria in your body - particularly your digestive tract. When there is not enough good bacteria (probiotics), the bad organisms particularly candida proliferate. If this goes on long enough, the candida yeast grow and turn into fungus. The fungus roots into your digestive tract, damaging it and creates what is called leaky gut syndrome. Leaky gut syndrome is believed to play a part in many of the TMS equivalents such as IBS, food and environmental allergies, CFS and fibromyalgia. You will probably hear more about this from your doctor but treatment primarily consists of dietary changes to stop feeding the candida (it feeds off sugar and processed food) and replenishing the good bacteria with probiotic supplements and food like yogurt and kefir. This explanation is much more accepted in alternative medicine circles than in traditional and there is a ton of info about it on the web.
Knowing this and knowing what I now know about TMS, I have been struggling with how to put the two theories together. I know that TMS is emotionally based and candidiasis is physically based. For the past few years (before I became aware of TMS) I have only been focusing only the physical (treating the candidiasis) and I have gone from very very sick to only sort of sick. For a long time I did not understand why I could not get completely better. Then I read MBP and realized that it was more than likely TMS that was the problem.
I think that maybe the TMS creates the condition or environment, which allows the candida to grow. So I think in that in the case of candidiasis, it might have to initially be more of a two pronged approach: treating the candida overgrowth in addition to examining the emotional issues that created the problem in the first place. I think that once you are well into doing the emotional work, you can ease off the candidiasis treatment. IMO, in the case of candidiasis I don't think that you can get rid of the yeast and heal your gut until the emotional issues are addressed but on the other hand in cases of severe candidiasis I don't think that the candida overgrowth will just go away without treatment.
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 17:27:31
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. When we get bad sinus infections or yeast infections *occasionally* at stressful times, it's appropriate to treat them as normal and take medicine, so in that sense they're legitimate. As Sarno veterans we know that the ultimate cause is emotional and we can try to attend to that as well. If it becomes a pattern we have to get serious about the emotional stuff again.
Not to get OT here, but I'm pretty sure my brain is testing me again. It's throwing up knee and wrist pain on bike rides -- asymmetric, so I can guess it "doesn't make sense" (silly brain). Wish I could figure out what was bugging me, but for now I'm just trying to battle it with my mind and upping the regular Sarno work.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Suz |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 13:43:16
I have to tell you - I am totally convinced that the yeast infection is just like the back pain. I used to have them all the time when I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (TMS). Now - nothing. Sometimes it is hard to accept things as psychogenic - but I think that a great deal of things are. I had a very stressful time in my life over the last two weeks and I came down with a brutal sinus infection and then I had a back flare up when that went away. I had to take antibiotics - but the cause was definitely the brain. It lowered my immune system. The infection was legitimate but the cause was not structural |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 12:58:31
Suz, I think one can get an occasional "legitimate" yeast infection -- it's like a cold, maybe you get it when your immune system is down from stress or whatever.
My mom has "candida" along with a whole gamut of TMS symptoms (she has kind of said she gets the TMS thing but doesn't follow up on it). It's hard for me to believe they're not related, since her candida stuff seems to follow the same pattern of placebo-improvement/relapse as the rest of her stuff.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Suz |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 11:12:29
Dr. Sarno is convinced that Yeast infections (candidiasis) are just another TMS equivalent. I used to suffer all the time from them and so avoided so many things from my diet - especially sugars, dairy and carbs. Well - I eat sugar and carbs all the time now and have not had a yeast infection in a very long time. They are just another (very unpleasant) distraction created by the mind. After all, if your brain can cause excruciating back pain then why can't it create a yeast overgrowth. Why don't you explore what is going on in your life now - take something from the pharmacy if you have to adn then just ignore it. I don't think your doctor sounds TMS friendly at all - he is barking up the wrong tree. The pain is caused by the mind and any yeast infections are caused by the mind.
I will say that the only time when one can get a "legitimate" yeast infection is if you are on loads of antibiotics or your immune system is very very low from HIV or cancer treatment. |
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