| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| PainFreeinNC |
Posted - 09/21/2006 : 13:07:12
Feeling almost like an alcoholic slipping up and having a drink, I caved in and went to see my chiropractor today...FOR THE LAST TIME.
In my defense, my reasoning was multi-layered. I wanted to feel the rush and energy of TENS unit, felt maybe a tune up couldn't hurt, and I wanted to see what he'd say about me in my current condition.
When I left work to go to his office I wasn't feeling that great and figured maybe he'd help. But as I pulled out of my parking lot and up to the stop sign I suddenly realized I was at a HUGE crossroads. I was almost like the guy in the Robert Frost's poem "The Road Not Taken". I had turned left so many times and went to that chiropractor's office for a quick fix. And now sitting at that stop sign I realized that left turn meant giving in, denying the validity of my TMS diagnosis. I struggled. Should I just turn right, ditch the appointment and get some lunch. No, I had to know, was this "subtle manipulation of the spine" an integral component to a healthy me? I took the road more travelled, realizing, hoping, KNOWING, that it would be the last time.
As I walked up to the door to his office I realized at that moment I was feeling as good, if not better, than he's ever made me feel. I wondered if he'd comment on how good I was doing, encourage me to live life to the fullest, and express HIS happiness for how well I was doing.
Sitting in the waiting room, for the first time I realized I was merely sitting in an instution of fear and oppression. Everything in that building is designed to scare the hell out of you and lead you into a lifetime of delusion and dependency. All these little posters and signs imparting on me their snippets of wisdom: "Whiplash can have DEVASTATING effects", "Minor subluxations block the flow of health", "careful when lifting, sitting, driving a car, etc.", "weekly tune ups are the key to good health." Everything in there was one big sales pitch on how fragile the human body is and how this guy was your only hope if you ever wanted to be healthy. Much like governments and churches prey on the weak and rule by oppression, the back care industry thrives on your belief in what they say. At this moment, it had never been clearer to me.
Anyway, I went through the ice, electro muscle jacker thingy, and the silly rolling table and had a nice little laugh to myself how ridiculous this whole endeavor was. I then got in to see the doc. He asked how I was doing, where I'd been. I told him "I feel great, never better. You must have finally got me right that last appointment 2 weeks ago." His tone of voice dropped a little. This was not what he wanted to hear. One of the lemmings had got a clue to what was going on and a mutiny was about to happen. "Well, let's take a look", he said with hope in his voice. Hope that he could find something out of place and bring alarm and great concern to a potential problem my precious little spine just might have.
He agreed, however, that I was doing quite well and with great pride and aplomb he commented "it must be the exercises and spinal molding, you been doing those regularly, right?". "Oh yes, they're working like a charm" I told him, as I was trying to remember if it had been 3, or was it 4, weeks since I bothered with any of those useless exercises he showed me.
Now thoroughly convinced I was in the presence of but a small cog in the huge wheel of deciet that is the healthcare industry, I smiled to myself, knowing I would never be party to it again. The final clincher, the zinger, the coup de gras, however, came with the next words he spoke. "Ok, just to make sure, why don't you come back tomorrow and well check everything out". Here I am in the best shape he's ever seen me. But I hadn't been there in two weeks and the payment on the Suburban is due, the kids are back in school, and that new 6000 square foot house wasn't free. He was accustomed to my $40 3 times a week and now I've gone TWO WHOLE WEEKS and given him nothing? How dare I, he thinks to himself and proposes a solution! Come back tomorrow, and open your wallet to the temple of wasted money. At that very moment I knew we'd never see each other again.
God, that feels so good to say. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JohnD |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 18:57:04
"chiropractors are liars, period. No exception"
I love the maturity of thought displayed here :-) |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:53:19
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
chiropractors are liars, period. No exceptions
Yes, this statement is dogmatic. I had a chiropractor who constantly told me "You are stronger than you think you are" and by that, helped me apply Sarno's treatment methods. Does that sound like a liar?
He was a true healer, and always asked me what was going on in my life. Now, who does that sound like.
If it was me, I would avoid making these narrow minded, bitter, extreme, one size fits all statements, lest I be not taken seriously anymore.
Shawn, what changed your mind about not leaving the board after all. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 08:58:14
It does not seem dogmatic, it is dogmatic. I am a hardcore 1000% Sarno-ite. Take no prisoners.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
| weatherman |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 20:50:06
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
chiropractors are liars, period. No exceptions
That seems a bit dogmatic. There are some chiros who work the system, but the one I'd gone to ABSOLUTELY believed in what he was doing. He's a serious amateur rodeo rider, so has some personal experience with pain. He was also skilled, in the sense of very consistently getting a good (usually placebo in my opinion) response from people. For many people, a placebo response may be as good as it gets, and in those cases it's better than nothing. For me, the chiro at least kept me active for several years, when God knows what damage an orthopedic could have done with surgery OR bad advice. As the saying goes, never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Compared to orthopedics, I would call chiro "good." Orthopedics is pretty much useless unless there is a traumatic physical injury that needs to be repaired, or deterioration warranting a joint replacement (I think I'm showing some of my own biases here ).
Most of us on this board agree that the TMS theory is the best explanation for lots of pain or we wouldn't be here. Chiro is not the answer for me. But, if someone else is satisfied by where they get to on a different path I'll try not to rain on their parade.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 19:03:34
chiropractors are liars, period. No exceptions
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." It's all you need to know in order to recover. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 11:47:45
Great post! Thanx..Considering going back to a chiro is almost an addicting thought in itself..Hmm..let me let somebody else fix me!
I also have two good friends who are chiros and they aren't about getting money from people..they are true healers wanting to help..One of them even believes in TMS..THe other one does Network chiro which deals w/ releases pent up emotions..he is all the way in PA..
Neuro Doctors are even worse with their MRI's showing herniations scaring the daylights out of us..ANd setting a long term pattern of fear for which i am STILL dealing with..even w/ this current relapse..The first thing i fear is OH NO MY DISCS!!
And, btw..a chiro i used to see a few years back b4 committing to Sarno's techniques REALLY hurt my neck..Some might remember..I was having terrible dizziness whenever turning in bed..It was a nightmare..He actually did a high speed adjustment on my neck that threw C1 and C2 out of whack for real..I am terrified of any neck adjustments since..In any case as Dr. S. teaches..When we seek medical attention for TMS we are just reinforcing our belief that it is physical..I have made that mistake and still do sometimes when i go for acupuncture..AT least i know an acupuncturist isn't going to really hurt me like that chiro did.. |
| Dave |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 09:58:21
Unfortunately many chiropractors work this way. They show you X-Rays and scare you into seeing them twice a week for the rest of your life. I saw one of these myself just before I committed to the TMS diagnosis. In fact, one of his adjustments was the trigger for the most painful back spasms I have ever experienced.
I also have a friend who is a chiropractor, who I saw for many years before learning about TMS. He believes in his craft and does not resort to "snake oil salesman" techniques. I no longer believe in chiropractic care but there are certainly those who do care about their patients.
Nevertheless, it bears repeating: if you accept the TMS diagnosis you should never, ever consider going to a chiropractor or any other practitioner who insists that the pain has a structural component. |
| weatherman |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 01:12:36
I have to stick up for my local (former) chiro on this thread. First want to make it clear that I no longer "believe" in chiro, and haven't had my back adjusted in years.
However, the guy I had gone to was pretty enlightened and on the up and up; he would flat out say that if your back etc. wasn't bothering you, there was no need to keep seeing him. He also never tried to sign me up for ongoing adjustments.
I'm now pretty well convinced that it was a placebo effect - but still a lot less harmful than the advice/treatment you could get from a conventional doc. A big thing was, he always advised you to stay active even with back pain etc. So, I have kind of mixed feelings, in that the TMS route is definitely the superior approach. On the other hand, if someone is ignorant of it or simply not open to believeing it, they could certainly do a lot worse than going to the chiropractor I went to.
Weatherman
Weatherman
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. |
| rjm |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 18:45:55
I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would post my experience to help someone else. I know I slipped, weakened and listened to a massage therapist I had used about getting an inexpensive initial consultation with his chiropractor colleague after I was experiencing a lot of lower calf pain that wasn't going away.
I had never been to a chiropractor and was suspicious, but since my massage therapist does get mind body stuff and has read Sarno and believes in both, I figured I should check it out.
At the end of the initial consultation, he wanted me to come back in the afternoon to review the report of findings and begin immediate care because if the x-rays he took confirmed things he noted about my posture, I would have degeneration, spinal misalignment and sublaxation. I told him I had to work and could not come right back later on in the day, and I would need more info before deciding if this was right for me.
He then tells me "well if you're not committed to the care, I have a lot of other patients to see before the holiday and we only accept patients that are committed to the care."
I teach sales training and the above was a classic hard close as well as what we call a take away. This has no place in a healthcare environment and immediately made me suspicious. I need to get back on track and finish Fred Amir's book and re-read Sarno--today! Thank goodness I could smell a rat. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/25/2006 : 11:45:46
I wrote some different letters for different people and this was one of the nicer ones. I wasn't really angry at this guy since he had only treated me for a few weeks and he was at least not antipathetic to Sarno's theory.
Actually in the end I was not *that* angry at any of my practitioners individually (except one physio who failed to accurately diagnose my physical symptoms or help at all -- the letter to her was definitely colder). I was more angry at the collective mindset. I think all of the ones I had did the best they could with the methods they knew, the methods I had come to them requesting. And when things didn't help, they didn't blame it on me and they were generally honest that they just did not know why I was not getting better. Some were willing to continue to treat me -- I guess palliative care would be one name for it -- but no one ever tried to convince me that they could help when they really couldn't.
I think sometimes they do keep treating you because otherwise they're worried you'll lose hope completely. But I don't know that they should do that unless they tell you they're uncertain and let you choose whether to keep coming or not.
I also thought I might catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (as my dad says). :-)
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| ndb |
Posted - 09/24/2006 : 08:51:36
Wow ACL, your letter was so polite and restrained! I've fantasised about the letter and composed it in my head many times, but I always procrastinate about writing it up. I think because my motivation is not kind at all. I think I want to put in all my angry thoughts about how they went on giving me treatment though they didn't really know if it was going to work or not...not a very polite letter at all.
The thought occurs to me that maybe they went on treating me as a kindness....maybe they thought I would have totally lost it if they even refused to treat me saying there was nothing they could do. Who knows what their reaction would have been if they knew about Sarno (I don't think any of the people I went to did).
Looking back, its very ironic, that an orthopaedist who I really detested said something which he may or may not have realized was so true. When I told him I was doing feldenkrais, he dismissed it and advised cervical traction and regular pt instead. But his words were something like "When you are really better, you won't need to do feldenkrais or sit in good posture to not feel pain". At that time, I thought that was a pretty stupid thing to say...posture was so correlated in my mind with hurting your back. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/23/2006 : 22:31:38
Great story, Painfree. I have a chiro story that I've mentioned on here before. The abbreviated version is that many yrs ago I went reularly for about ten years. All that time I had continual and varying back pain. Suddenly, my insurance stopped paying for chiro so I stopped going. Guess what happened? That's right, no more back pain! Not for the past 15 yrs or so (except rare short-term recurrences). |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/23/2006 : 02:38:13
I have not heard from any of the doctors I have written to (two physios, an osteopath, two chiros [network and normal]), except one, a massage therapist I was seeing just before the chiro. She did write and tell me she was happy to hear I was better. It happened that she had just started reading Sarno when I mentioned it to her, so I hope my success made her take it more seriously (she was not otherwise inclined to do so).
Not hearing is not surprising. All I hope is that they put the letter in my file instead of throwing it away, and maybe it will come back to them at the right time.
This chiro, weirdly, had Sarno's books in his waiting room and was open to the theory, but only for helping people get better. He was still convinced that there were often or always mechanical factors involved. My letter is a way of calling bull**** on that. It's similar to what I thought the first time I heard Sarno's theory, though!
But I think it must be hard for a chiro to believe, maybe even harder than for us. We're in pain and Sarno is a chance to be free. They're in the black, and Sarno is a just a chance to be in the red by losing patients, or even have to change their careers. Still, I think they have a duty as health professionals to take the successes into account and recommend it at least to those they feel might be receptive. And I guess my chiro had gotten that far, so kudos to him. (I read Sarno before I saw him, so I don't have him to thank at all.)
The chiro claims that he has cured many people's RSI completely, but I am skeptical. I do know one girl who said he helped her, but she still uses a Kinesis keyboard and I don't think she does so voluntarily as I do. (I'm considering stopping, though. It's allegedly faster, but I don't find it to be.)
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 20:23:42
Awesome letter! Thanks for sharing. Did you ever hear from your doc or chiro again, after you sent the letter? Did they believe you and do you think your success impacted their belief about TMS and SArno's work? Just curious.
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 16:20:14
I have two letters -- the one I sent to the chiro, and another one that is more thorough that I sent to practitioners who had treated me longer ago. But I'll just post the first for now. If people are interested in the other perhaps later.
-----------------------
Dear Dr. [Lastname],
I wanted to let you know that I’ve been doing very well since leaving your care about 10 weeks ago. I know that I left against your advice, but it has turned out well. The Sarno method seems to have been the key to my recovery.
I am typing full-time, with only ordinary, flexible breaks. I am doing no special stretches, nor using any voice recognition software. I do still use my funky Kinesis keyboard, but I am also able to type comfortably on laptops and other ordinary keyboards.
I can type all day in the office, come home, and keep going (although I try not to – there’s more to life than the computer!). I have been very active, returning to swimming, cycling, and running; my knee, foot, and upper-back pain have gone away along with the arm pain. I can move books and boxes, cook, and carry grocery bags again. Just being normal again makes me very happy.
I appreciated your openness to the Sarno theory when we discussed it during my treatment. I also feel that your physical treatment was based on an accurate understanding of the physical manifestations of my TMS, and was extremely helpful on a temporary basis. Thank you for that.
If you do have patients in the future who are interested in pursuing the Sarno method, or are willing to recommend it to anyone, I found several resources besides Dr. Sarno’s books very helpful. The webpages http://www.conquerrsi.com/ and http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/ were particularly inspiring to me; both authors recovered from severe RSI with the Sarno method as well.
Thank you again for your treatment and professional dedication.
Best regards,
[MyName]
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| PainFreeinNC |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 15:27:57
Armchair -
PLEASE, By all means GO AHEAD and post that letter. I think some of us could use it as boilerplate for all the hacks we send letters to.
You guys are awesome. Off the Gym I go! |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 10:21:25
Penny, I do have a copy of the letter. PFinNC, do you mind if I post it in your thread?
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| VladY |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 08:43:46
Believe it or not - my chiropractor told me straight after 6 or 7 visits that he would not be able to help me and that he did not want to waste my time and money. There's more - he pointed me more or less to the right direction. He gave me a copy of an article which pretty much said that I should pay attention to what's going on in my mind. Pity he did not mention Dr. Sarno, I accidentally discovered his book two months later. |
| Mary Ann |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 08:09:37
You know, you've got to admire the marketing genius that is Chiropractic. 3 times a week, then once a week, then once every two weeks--it's subtle but they end up hooking patients for life! Talk about a cash cow!
Before I found Sarno 6 years ago, I had been going to a chiro for over 5 years. It started with an acute attack in my neck (which in retrospect was likely TMS). That cleared up within a month but I never got "better"! There was always some reason to keep me coming in. I ended up with a "patient mentality" always looking for the tweaks in my body to report. I felt like a child and blamed my "condition" on the fact that I was lazy with the stretching and the exercises.
Finding Sarno was such an epiphany. I quit him cold turkey and have not looked back. Congrats to you for your newfound control over your health. And for such a great story.
Mary Ann |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/21/2006 : 22:21:40
I love you guys!!!! Through your discoveries, I'm finding myself. Thank you.
ArmChair ... do you happen to have a copy of your letter? I'd love to read it ... I'm fantasizing about sending all 5 of my doctors "The Letter"  Is is gloating? happy? Resigned? I bet it's powerful!!!! Share if you feel so inclined.
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
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