| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 09:14:57
When trying to recover from a TMS attack, such as my wrist which has been relentless for 4 months, would it be considered obsessive to keep re-reading the books and reading posts here, to get the brain re-programmed? At what point does one do more harm than good by keeping the pre-occupation with the TMS so active? I'm wondering if this in itself is kind of counter-productive to getting well again.
Not sure which direction to go in. Thanks |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 10:33:58
quote:
I used to remind myself it was TMS by citing the morning pain. I mean really! I was asleep for 8 or more hours. What could I possibly do to hurt them during the night!?
Also the fact that it's only one wrist (if I understand correctly). Why would it only be one? We use both of our hands to do things.
After I got better, I realized that I'd been fed tons of nonsensical justifications for why my pain was worse on one side than the other in the arms, and worse on the opposite side in the neck and back. Why it was only in my forearms. Why I never had numbness, just pain. Why the pain was worse in certain spots. And why it would be worse at night (they can come up with lots of reasons, as you no doubt know).
But I think these crazy justifications are signs that the pain doesn't make sense, and thus signs of TMS. They can be hard to recognize if they're what you're used to hearing (I still moderate an RSI community, so I've heard 'em all) but if you think carefully they're silly.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 07:26:37
Mary,
You said something that brought back memories for me, when you said your wrist pain was worse in the mornings.
BINGO - TMS.
I ONLY had TMS in the wrists (7 years) and I went to all the hand surgeons (who have yet to see an MRI they like) and the neuro's and all that.
I used to remind myself it was TMS by citing the morning pain. I mean really! I was asleep for 8 or more hours. What could I possibly do to hurt them during the night!?
Keep evaluating your life and why you feel a move would do you good . . . Use those wrists.
Regards,
Beth |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 19:46:14
Mary,
Can't remember if I told you this, but my rheumy told me my CTS was so bad I needed surgery on both my wrists due to permanent nerve damage. He said he had never seen such damage in a person my age (I'm 35) and that surgery was my only hope if I wanted to use my wrists w/o pain!
He was wrong. The excrutiating crippling pain, pins and needles are GONE!!!! I've retrained my brain and repudiated the official "professional diagnosis", and I don't wear wristlets or splints at all anymore. I didn't have surgery and I have ZERO pain in my hands and wrists. I was on the track to having surgery and considered having injections.
I had CTS for 10 years and it's now gone. Completely GONE!
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 03:57:49
TT, San Diego was also suggested by a friend two years ago. I am not looking to move, but was doing an exercise on being open minded to it down the road if I ever decide on a job change. San Diego sounds like the climate I'd like. I have to look more into it in general so thanks for suggesting it. |
| art |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:37:33
I think Mary was talking about the hand surgeon saying it was structural, although she did see a TMS doc who backed off from an initial diagnosis of TMS to no longer being sure..Sopher was emphatic that it was TMS
The hand surgeon of course is going to vote structural as we all know, cause it's what they do...I shudder to think how many surgeries are performed ever day that aren't necessary...I wonder how much of my ungodly monthly health insurance premium pays for that...We all pay of course, and it's such a waste...makes me mad if I think about it too long...
I came within 3 days myself of a totally unnecessary knee procedure...turned out there wasn't a blessed thing wrong with my knee, but that wasn't going to get stop my knife-happy orthopod...why let a little detail like structural soundness get in the way of a big fat fee?
Mary, I agree completely with T...just use the crap out of it...Bet you fifty bucks it's substantially better inside a month. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:23:26
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
TT, actually I had an MRI and the docs said it is structural and I need surgery but I had a consultation with Dr. Sopher over the phone and he said no, it's TMS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well then you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I had a similar dx. Two TMS doctors dx'ed my hip as arthtitis and NOT TMS. So, I am sympathetic to what you may be feeling.
At least once a day, someone seeing my limp, reccommeds hip-replacement surgery. I like my hip, it's been with me all my life. It got me through 13 marathons with no pain. I don't feel it deserves to be amputated and replaced with metal and ceramic yet...if ever. So, I keep using it, and it serves me reasonably well.
If I have to start crawling, I'll consider the surgery, or an elctric wheelchair. I just bought one for my Dad, an A'TM from SpinMobility, and he scoots around on it quite nicely. It actually looks like fun, kinda' like driving a go-kart.
Ironicaly, my two TMS injury triggers, were from doing two difficult, (for me), YOGA positions.
I ask myself, what did people do with injuries prior to surgery? What they did was manage. That's what I do with my hip, I manage. The American Arthritis Foundation calls this course of action "management". It is a conservative approach.
We are all on our own here. You are the ultimate determiner of what is best for you, and what course of action you will take. If you are in excruciateing pain, I think the Good Doctor would give you pain killers. I still say use it, your wrist that is.
Although we talked by phone a while back, I can't recall many of the details. I don't think I or anyone can "cure" you over the internet. We can throw some genreal ideas at you and you have to deduce what works and what doesn't. A good psycho-therapist would probably want to do two sessions a week with you for several months, to get to know your emotional background. We're just shooting in the dark here.
You mentioned, in a previous post, about your desire to move to a different city and asked for suggestions. Maybe a move would be good. What did you think about my suggestion of San Diego? I'm curious.
The physical actions you mentioned, not being able to do, like petting your cat and switching the remote are not life threatening. Thankfully the Celestial Archetect, as Dr. Sarno put it, gives us two of most every body part and you have another hand to do those tasks with. I do quite well limping around the tennis court, can routine most club players and have fun.
The pain you have is another story. I used to have excrusiateing pain too, and now I don't. If I work out in the pool or go for a walk, my hip muscles loosen up, the limp goes away and I can go out and have fun again. TMS is the volume control for the pain.
Good Luck,
tt
|
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 05:55:16
TT, actually I had an MRI and the docs said it is structural and I need surgery but I had a consultation with Dr. Sopher over the phone and he said no, it's TMS. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 01:39:53
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
TT,
What I'd LIKE to do is go about my daily routine without attacks of pain, do simple things, like pat my cat firmly the way he likes it and not get a jolt of pain searing through my wrist.
There's no one activity that I can't do, it's just daily stuff, such simple stuff really... reaching for the remote, reaching in the fridge for a beverage, turning to pass something to someone. It's all such simple movements and I do them all, but still there's that jolt of pain almost every move. I have not let it stop me, but it's there all the time.
-----------------------------------------------
Hi Maryalma,
I didn't confuse you with someone else, it was the tone of your post that lead me to believe that it was Fibro.
I don't think I can add anything to my previous post to you. I assume your wrist has been checked out by doctors and nothing structural found.
You seem to be resisting the TMS dx. Sarno says TMS is painful but not harmful. He compares it to a cramp that is harmless but excrusiateinly painful. That is how I think about it. If you have TMS, than all that is left is to work through the pain and return to normal activity. |
| Bat Ears |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 12:49:00
I agree with Art. The approach to the "cure" is psychological, and the direct physical challenge is actually psychological, in my opinion. You're not treating it with exercise. I recently had a TMS relapse with a whole new location, both shoulders. I "aggravated" it by mowing my lawn (very strenuous on the shoulders with my old machine) and was afterwards suffering greatly. But I just told the old gremlin "no you don't, you can't fool me," and got down and did 20 pushups. The pain went away. It still tries to come back, but it's easily stopped. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 12:22:37
Thanks Art, you're both right.
I do use the wrist but I think I am at times bracing against it when it's hurting so bad. I guess I have to just use it more.
|
| art |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 11:58:10
Mary, we've both discovered that the wrist pain would go away while on a run, and for a short time afterward...I'm guessing that it's just a question of blood flow...I would also be in the most pain in the morning...
I think TT's right...Just use the hell out of your wrist. .Thinking/ believing/journaling/feeling are all good things, but for my money the quickest route to healing is to challenge this stuff in as direct a manner as possible...
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| marytabby |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 11:14:13
Thanks TT. Also, to clarify, I do not have fibro, not sure if you are confusing me with someone else. I just have the wrist thingie.
Thanks for your reply. Also, TT, quick question, my pain is worst upon waking. It's excruciating when I wake up. So is that the time I would do the activities for long periods? During the day it's there but it's not bringing me to my knees.
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 10:21:23
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
TT,
What I'd LIKE to do is go about my daily routine without attacks of pain, do simple things, like pat my cat firmly the way he likes it and not get a jolt of pain searing through my wrist.
There's no one activity that I can't do, it's just daily stuff, such simple stuff really... reaching for the remote, reaching in the fridge for a beverage, turning to pass something to someone. It's all such simple movements and I do them all, but still there's that jolt of pain almost every move. I have not let it stop me, but it's there all the time.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Maryalma, I assume you have TMS. If that is correct, then all you have to do, is, do all those things with the firm BELIEF
that the pain you feel is TMS and nothing else. You have to believe that fibro does NOT exist and is a coruption and mis-diagnosis for TMS.
Somewhere along the line you have been given a powerful NOCEBO effect by the white-coats. You have to disavow it and have the firm intent that you will prove them wrong and help to prove the Good Doctor RIGHT.
Do all those things you listed over and over until you start feeling better. Do each activity for 5-10-20 minutes contiuously until you warm-up those body parts like an athlete preparing for an Olympic record setting event. You will get your juices going and the long underused parts will get the rust off. The body makes it's own WD-40 in the joints. It is created by things called bursas. It is one of the few body parts that can grow back. That's where the term bursitis comes from,the bursas. But if you don't use the part, the bursas won't get the message to make the synovial fluid to lube and warm it.
USE IT OR LOSE IT !
One morning you will wake up and the pain will be gone. |
| dundermifflin |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 08:29:46
RE: I think one major problem we TMS'ers have is being suspended in a stage of life ambivalence--we may not know what we want to do for normal activity when we grow-up.
Talk about hitting the nail on the head!
Maddeningly Perfect Statement!
|
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 06:27:08
TT,
What I'd LIKE to do is go about my daily routine without attacks of pain, do simple things, like pat my cat firmly the way he likes it and not get a jolt of pain searing through my wrist.
There's no one activity that I can't do, it's just daily stuff, such simple stuff really... reaching for the remote, reaching in the fridge for a beverage, turning to pass something to someone. It's all such simple movements and I do them all, but still there's that jolt of pain almost every move. I have not let it stop me, but it's there all the time. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 11:37:32
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
When trying to recover from a TMS attack, such as my wrist which has been relentless for 4 months, would it be considered obsessive to keep re-reading the books and reading posts here, to get the brain re-programmed? At what point does one do more harm than good by keeping the pre-occupation with the TMS so active? I'm wondering if this in itself is kind of counter-productive to getting well again.
Not sure which direction to go in. Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading Sarno over and over would not do you any harm unless it caused you to be thrown out on the streets and starve to death. It would be a positive obsession. I have not heard of anyone on this board expireing from sarnoitis. Eventually you will come up for food, sex or air. It took your mindbody a lifetime to develop TMS habits, for good or bad.
In his latest book, I think he may even be saying TMS serves an important positive psychogical purpose in our social evolution. TMS may not be such a bad thing afterall--but I haven't finished the book yet.
When you get bored of reading, give yourself a TMS test and try returning to NORMAL
ACTIVITY. See how well you've absrobed the materials on a cellular level--sleep on it.
I think one major problem we TMS'ers have is being suspended in a stage of life ambivalence--we may not know what we want to do for normal activity when we grow-up.
What is it that you would LIKE to do that TMS is stopping you from doing? |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 11:19:06
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
Mary- Why not try IC work? Just do a few minutes a day and keep the faith in the process. The answer lies within you. You can do it.
What is IC? Inner Child? If so, can you offer suggestions? Thanks.
Mary- Inner Child work is based on the idea that we all have a child part of ourselves that is still alive in our brains. When we repress feelings as children they don't die when we grow up. They instead get frozen and preserved in the state last left and over time push towards consciousness in an effort by the brain to heal and in the process create havoc as in TMS. Those feelings can over time be coaxed out of unconsciousness and into our conscious by providing the love, attention, patience, and caring that we didn't get as children. It's a reparenting of ourselves where we use our adult parent self with all our grown up powers to help the child with his feelings. It is a process that requires a long term commitment but is well worth it. Bradshaw calls it a process of "unfreezing" and it builds momentum over time. It's hard starting off because the child doesn't trust initially and there is no immediate payoff. Just keep at it and slowly things will start happening.
There are a ton of books written on the inner child subject. Bradshaw has a good one in "Homecoming". Another short one that i've read is called "Healing your Aloneness" by Chopich and Paul. Both books will show you how to go about dialoging with your inner child with the intention to learn about the issues that the child is holding on to.
I've based my recovery, which is still ongoing, on inner child work and i'm very happy with the results. I use IC work in therapy to get at my repressed feelings and it's been a liberating experience. I strongly recommend it for those tough cases that don't quickly yield to the Sarno's therapudic approach. |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 11:10:27
Maryalma,
I think Schechter says that we should not spend too much time on our TMS work. I would agree with that, whether it's limiting the time per day or even taking whole days or weeks off and just saying "All right, I still have some pain, but whatever. It's doing its thing and I'm just going to ignore it as much as I can."
Only you can answer whether you need some time off. But it seems plausible to me that you do -- right now you seem very concerned, preoccupied, a little desperate to get rid of the symptoms, to prove that it's TMS and you're still safe from pain. That's probably allowing the pain to still serve as a distraction in its own way. When the pain gets a rise out of us, and keeps that rise, that's when it's going to stick around, diverting our energy from real life. (I think that's why my stiffness is still around. I still find it really annoying and act like I think it's physical sometimes (stretching, etc) so it's still being enabled. I haven't been able to kick that. Fortunately it's not interfering with major life functions.)
Good luck. I'm thinking good thoughts for your recovery.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 10:44:55
Hi Mary,
Yes, IC is inner child. The info I shared in the wrist thread is an example of IC work. Armchairlinguist added some more ideas to that thread. I'm trying everything I can to end my fibro and other things (IC work, psychotherapy, dream analysis, journaling, mindfulness, talking to the pain and my brain, reading the TMS books). 3-months ago I was bedridden and couldn't care for myself or my toddlers I was ridden by physical pain. I don't know exactly what is working the most but it all seems to be helping me. I am finally self-expressing my newfound (always hidden) emotional pain.
I sincerely hope it helps you. How are you emotionally right now?
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 05:29:09
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
Mary- Why not try IC work? Just do a few minutes a day and keep the faith in the process. The answer lies within you. You can do it.
What is IC? Inner Child? If so, can you offer suggestions? Thanks. |
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