| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| iamwhoiam |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 06:02:29
Maybe someone could answer me this question.
What im having difficulty understanding is, if anxiety is a symptom of TMS (free floating anxiety as sarno puts it), and so is OCD, would you say that the anxiety i may have felt as a kid, and also that cheery is talking about here (http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2511) , was a TMS symptom rather than just having an 'anxious personality'?
As there are two conflicting arguments to why OCD occurs. One is that it is a symptom of 'anxiety' in the first place, and should be treated as such, to try and get your anxiety under control, the other is that it is a symptom of 'TMS.'
But, if anxiety is an equivilent of TMS, then it should be treated as such, NOT as a personality trait, but as a result of TMS (a distraction)
It has to be said, if i think back to my childhood, and about when i was at school and bullied (made to feel isolated), then i never remember actually 'believing' any of my worries, of anxiety, i knew they were being assholes, and it wasnt me, but something inside me mate me feel anxious, even though i maybe couldnt conciously justify it like i could if i said 'oh im anxious to perform as i might be crap'.
It WAS as if, something inside me was feeling violated and hurt, and producing the anxiety and it couldnt be tied to any 'one' situation. Saying that though, unerneath it was the idealogy of 'i can't cope in this situation, i must. . . ., or else'.
i dont know, i just dont buy into the whole distraction thing, i just feel physical symptoms are by default, a resut of inner tension, for whatever reason,and, they go when you dont perpetuate them by focusing on the physical symptoms. Is that such a wrongful assumption? Its our personalities, and the resultant tensions and symptoms that perpetuate this 'syndrome'.
The whole 'spreading epidemic' thing about these syndromes, couldnt they just be explained by fear of conditions (back pain, or ulceres that are invougue) pertetuating tension resultant 'ticks', like a 'twinge' in your back, then your personality just building the tension further from there. . .. I cant explain it, it seems unexplainable.
Is 'distraction' the only convenient explination for this odd syndrome? It just doesnt seem to add up.
The phrase 'dont stress about stress. . . . ' seems to be the basis, and laughing at the idealogy of it seems to work well for me, and just building on that. . .
It seems that with the TMS diagnosis, it 'cuts through the crap' so to speak, and gets to the root, underlying insecurities that cause the anxiety/tension in the first place.
I think its a safe assumtion to say that the 'tension' that is produced by such pressure on the 'self' from life pressure, internal pressures etc can then be manafested different ways, depending on what the mind whats to do with it.
In which case, TMS still stands as a diagnosis, and also, 'anxiety' still stands as a diagnosis. As they are treated similarly, with CBT these days, one should expect similar results, and neither are 'wrong', so to speak, and people get better through both therapies.
Though, if you ask me, getting more intouch with your emotions, and acceptance of them in the first place, will ultimatelty help put you under less pressure, as you are more self accepting, so the unconcious will not feel the need to produce physical symptoms as your 'kinda expecting the feelings to exist'. from time to time. . . .
Am i making sense or did i miss something crutial?
what you guys think?
Jamie
quote:
Originally posted by cheeryquery
I was a desperately anxious child then, around age 13, started having ocd symptoms like having to count in patterns before I could go to sleep. I really had to fight against the patterns or they would have overwhelmed me. As a teen, I had bad stomach pains relieved only by motorcycles and alcohol. So, not much surprise I grew up prone to TMS.
Seems to me this is going to be a lifelong problem with tension and anxiety that manifests in physical symptoms. Dr. Sarno's books give hope and a method. Obsessing about the method is a big improvement on obsessing about the pain.
Right now, I am trying to reconcile "goodist" tendencies with my belief system. Being a *itch makes me feel better physically but doesn't feel right.
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| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 14:05:46
Jamie,
I find the “distraction” theory bizarre and it didn’t click with me.
My explanation to myself was that it takes resources (“physical ones”) to repress the emotions, and these resources are taken away from parts of the body which need them, so a physical (or mental) disorder can result.
I think Arthur Janov says something similar in “The New Primal Scream”.
However, when I use the distraction theory to get rid of pain or some illness, it often works (not necessarily immediately, there can be a time delay), so I suppose I can’t discard it.
Hilary N |
| art |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 13:35:55
quote:
My husband (a mystical chap) says, for example, that we are distracting ourselves from JOY not ANGER because if we felt the joy we'd drift off into other worlds and die in this one. So Anger is needed to anchor us long enough to live our lives and learn our lessons here.
This is quite a poetic way to look at things..
Reminds me of the book/movie title "THe Unbearable Lightness of Being." Not 100 percent apt perhaps, but close...
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| Dave |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 12:06:53
quote:
Originally posted by iamwhoiam
...the fact that im paying it this much attention will ensure it persists. . . . .
Yup.
quote:
My understanding of the 'distraction' part is the constant struggle we get into with the physical symptoms of 'tension', and looking for ways to resolve the symptoms, not realising, that when we stop paying the symptoms attention, we can see the underlying cause of the tension in the first place (emotions) which, inturn, helps resolve it all.
Seems like an overly complex description. The symptoms are a distraction to prevent repressed emotions from reaching consciousness.
quote:
I retract the 'genius' part, as, i still find it hard to believe TMS is as 'cunning' as he makes out. . . making a distraction.
You have a problem believing that our brains are capable of being 'cunning'?
What some people fail to accept about Dr. Sarno is that his theory has been forumulated over 30+ years and is based on thousands of real case studies. If you read his first book you will see just how the theory has evolved. The distraction theory was introduced in his second book, and he explains why he reached this conclusion. |
| cheeryquery |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:47:02
I'm constantly amazed that so few people are able to accept Sarno's theory. WHAT'S THE BIG WOO??!! So what if it isn't obvious either intuitively or logically? Germs? Black holes? Meaning of life? None of the big stuff makes much sense, it seems to me. Give it a try. If it works, it works. And Sarno works.
That said, chances are the theory will undergo revision in future. My husband (a mystical chap) says, for example, that we are distracting ourselves from JOY not ANGER because if we felt the joy we'd drift off into other worlds and die in this one. So Anger is needed to anchor us long enough to live our lives and learn our lessons here.
Interestingly, a treatment for babies who "fail to thrive" (sometimes from neglect but sometimes just because they are off in a happy place of their own) is to annoy them until they get mad enough to fight back. So, with all of us, maybe nature does what it needs to do to keep our focus on survival. |
| iamwhoiam |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 17:39:54
Lol, 
well, looking back, it doesnt make much sense does it. Think i got carried away.
well im trying to understand this whole TMS thing in ME. I think though, the fact that im paying it this much attention will ensure it persists. . . . .
My understanding of the 'distraction' part is the constant struggle we get into with the physical symptoms of 'tension', and looking for ways to resolve the symptoms, not realising, that when we stop paying the symptoms attention, we can see the underlying cause of the tension in the first place (emotions) which, inturn, helps resolve it all.
I retract the 'genius' part, as, i still find it hard to believe TMS is as 'cunning' as he makes out. . . making a distraction. To me, it just seems like normal reactions to tension, and people, in their tense state, getting tenser about the tension symptoms and ending up in a right state. . . .
Like a said, i may have missed something but that is what it seems, especially when i watch myself. . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
I'm confused. I'm not following this thread.
I understand iamwhoiam's question but not the reply.
Can anyone clarify? I am dense.
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| marytabby |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 15:56:35
I'm confused. I'm not following this thread.
I understand iamwhoiam's question but not the reply.
Can anyone clarify? I am dense. |
| iamwhoiam |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 09:06:58
OK, well, I think the penny is dropping.
The nagging doubts are obviously hindering my progress, as per this thread. hehe.
I think Sarno is a genius. Distraction it is.
Wow, i think its scary just how damn long ive had TMS symptoms for
quote:
Originally posted by iamwhoiam
Maybe someone could answer me this question.
What im having difficulty understanding is, if anxiety is a symptom of TMS (free floating anxiety as sarno puts it), and so is OCD, would you say that the anxiety i may have felt as a kid, and also that cheery is talking about here (http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2511) , was a TMS symptom rather than just having an 'anxious personality'?
As there are two conflicting arguments to why OCD occurs. One is that it is a symptom of 'anxiety' in the first place, and should be treated as such, to try and get your anxiety under control, the other is that it is a symptom of 'TMS.'
But, if anxiety is an equivilent of TMS, then it should be treated as such, NOT as a personality trait, but as a result of TMS (a distraction)
It has to be said, if i think back to my childhood, and about when i was at school and bullied (made to feel isolated), then i never remember actually 'believing' any of my worries, of anxiety, i knew they were being assholes, and it wasnt me, but something inside me mate me feel anxious, even though i maybe couldnt conciously justify it like i could if i said 'oh im anxious to perform as i might be crap'.
It WAS as if, something inside me was feeling violated and hurt, and producing the anxiety and it couldnt be tied to any 'one' situation. Saying that though, unerneath it was the idealogy of 'i can't cope in this situation, i must. . . ., or else'.
i dont know, i just dont buy into the whole distraction thing, i just feel physical symptoms are by default, a resut of inner tension, for whatever reason,and, they go when you dont perpetuate them by focusing on the physical symptoms. Is that such a wrongful assumption? Its our personalities, and the resultant tensions and symptoms that perpetuate this 'syndrome'.
The whole 'spreading epidemic' thing about these syndromes, couldnt they just be explained by fear of conditions (back pain, or ulceres that are invougue) pertetuating tension resultant 'ticks', like a 'twinge' in your back, then your personality just building the tension further from there. . .. I cant explain it, it seems unexplainable.
Is 'distraction' the only convenient explination for this odd syndrome? It just doesnt seem to add up.
The phrase 'dont stress about stress. . . . ' seems to be the basis, and laughing at the idealogy of it seems to work well for me, and just building on that. . .
It seems that with the TMS diagnosis, it 'cuts through the crap' so to speak, and gets to the root, underlying insecurities that cause the anxiety/tension in the first place.
I think its a safe assumtion to say that the 'tension' that is produced by such pressure on the 'self' from life pressure, internal pressures etc can then be manafested different ways, depending on what the mind whats to do with it.
In which case, TMS still stands as a diagnosis, and also, 'anxiety' still stands as a diagnosis. As they are treated similarly, with CBT these days, one should expect similar results, and neither are 'wrong', so to speak, and people get better through both therapies.
Though, if you ask me, getting more intouch with your emotions, and acceptance of them in the first place, will ultimatelty help put you under less pressure, as you are more self accepting, so the unconcious will not feel the need to produce physical symptoms as your 'kinda expecting the feelings to exist'. from time to time. . . .
Am i making sense or did i miss something crutial?
what you guys think?
Jamie
quote:
Originally posted by cheeryquery
I was a desperately anxious child then, around age 13, started having ocd symptoms like having to count in patterns before I could go to sleep. I really had to fight against the patterns or they would have overwhelmed me. As a teen, I had bad stomach pains relieved only by motorcycles and alcohol. So, not much surprise I grew up prone to TMS.
Seems to me this is going to be a lifelong problem with tension and anxiety that manifests in physical symptoms. Dr. Sarno's books give hope and a method. Obsessing about the method is a big improvement on obsessing about the pain.
Right now, I am trying to reconcile "goodist" tendencies with my belief system. Being a *itch makes me feel better physically but doesn't feel right.
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