| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 22:07:08
Anyone have a good link to a "users guide" for the Sedona Method? I can't afford to buy another tape or book right now, but am really curious about this method to combat anxiety. Is it the same as EFT? Better? OR do I need to buy the book?
Thanks in advance.
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 15:39:14
Digging up an old thread here to hear some new opinions.
Sedona seems interesting to me. A little gimmicky but could be effective. I'm trying some of the techniques based on videos I've seen. Of course, I'm sure the book would help more, but I just hate buying so many books.
I will say this, for me... EFT was crap. Did nothing. Tapping=nothing. In fact, it might have just aggravated me.
I've done some presence process type work daily after reading some Michael Brown articles. THAT may be helping a bit.
Curious if anyone is currently integrating the Sedona Method into their lives and how they feel about it.
I definitely need to make peace with emotions and let them go. Easier said than done.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 00:21:31
At first glance, EFT sounds like "Healing Touch Therapy" (the bit about balancing energy...). Having done both EMDR and Healing Touch, I can't say I'm impressed with either. EMDR might have some credence because of the therapy component, but Healing Touch is simply laughable and I'm embarrassed I ever did it. |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 20:12:05
I too have been fascinated by EFT for several months now, and have been receiving and reading the weekly newsletters from that site. I have also been quite skeptical, as the method just seems too simple, but since I haven't been in pain, I have had no cause to test it.
(My wife is the source of my obsessive interest in TMS, which I believe to be the cause of her pain, but she can't accept this diagnosis, and recently had spinal fusion surgery against my strong advice.)
But I agree that we, as TMS proponents, should remain open minded. TMS, like EFT, is widely rejected by those of "conventional" or so-called "scientific" bent, and if it works for many people, as both belief systems seem to do, then we should be the last to criticize theirs, as we are in much the same boat. On their website, they have many doctors who are proponents, and they describe many successes with difficult cases, just as Dr. Sarno and other TMS doctors do. So if it works for them, I say, "Great!" even if it seems too simplistic to me.
Much of my reading recently has stressed that what we believe determines our reality, and as much as I would like my wife to believe in TMS, she has so far been unable to, and so far the surgery has not relieved her pain either.
I believe that her pain is connected with painful emotions from her childhood that she doesn't want to face, that at some unconsious level she has decided that the pain is preferable to facing such emotional issues, and if any technique would help her to deal with such issues, that would be all to the good as far as I'm concerned. Who knows, maybe EFT could help her deal with those emotions. Whatever works, I say. And those of us in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Ralph |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 09:09:29
Well put, TT and robbokop. I was pretty mystified at first about why my pain would be easier to deal with than the feelings; I didn't believe it was possible they were that painful and difficult. But I discovered that they are. I do think a lot of people are looking for a way around that, or a way to shorten it.
When I read Sarno's book and the method worked for me, virtually the first thing I decided was that I was not giving any money to any other practitioners of some bizarre therapy. I've wasted too much money, time, and emotional energy that way. If I didn't have success with my own work, I would seek some guidance, and I think the best bet would be psychotherapy, because, like Sarno, those practitioners offer primarily education and observation of the self. It may be a slow process, but I think that this kind of learning proceeds best slowly; it's virtually impossible to grasp the new depths of yourself quickly.
What I'm saying is that if someone wants to try this stuff, then for them that's probably fine, but I wouldn't, and I don't think they're really a very helpful subject for discussion here. We're here to talk about Sarno and about TMS and about our psychologies, more than what bizarre methods may help them.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| robbokop |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 08:11:46
TT says: 'Why spend thousand of dollars jumping from one method to another, when you can deal with TMS symptoms by reading a $25 book?'
This is what I have noticed a lot on the TMS forum. People have read the Sarno books but are constantly searching for more books, or different methods to tackle their problems. This seems a bit of an avoidance strategy as actually knuckling down and facing these dark and painful memories is just too hard. I have done this myself, but I now think the only way to solve these issues is to face them and experience them, in my case with the aid of psychotherapy. I am sick of feeling like this, but I know that there is no easy and quick answer. The emotions are scary, they are real and feeling them is more frightening (and rewarding) than any phantom pains TMS can conjure up even if if it doesn't seem that way initially. On the other side will come healing. |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 07:15:55
Well put, TT.
I have to agree.
Beth |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 23:52:47
quote:
Originally posted by EFT therapist
To change beliefs? That is the question! My experience is
-education (like Dr. Sarno does)
-self exploration (answering questions, like "Is that really true", or "What if that's not true"; similar to Byron Katie's approach with "The Work")
-EFT
-Avatar (a course that can be taken: its ALL about beliefs)
-Sedona Method
Any others?
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Any others?"
There are countless others, rolfing, cranial-sacral, gravity boots, firewalking, LSD, voo-doo, shamans, sweat houses, Balinese healers, it's endless. My point is that this is the TMS Forum and not the EMDR/EFT forum.
Dr. Sarno provides an in-expenseive, do-it-your-self form of healing for life. Some will need psycho-therapy on ocassion, if their situation is difficult enough. I have used psycho-therapy when it was warranted, but, I have been able to resolve many TMS symptoms promptly on my own.
It's like that saying, "Give someone a fish and you have fed them for one meal, teach them to fish and they will feed themselves for life." Why spend thousand of dollars jumping from one method to another, when you can deal with TMS symptoms by reading a $25 book?
I believe Dave said, if the practitoner is good, they can promote healing, whatever methodoology they use. It is the empathy and understanding they convey to their client rather than the tools they use. I have tried many methods from A-Z and found that any "healing" benefits I received depended more on my "faith" and "trust" in the practitoner than the practice itself.
I have experienced many "soothing" sessions with chiros, accus, C-S's and other forms of "healing" mind/body workers and found that their charisma was their primary instrument. Others using identical techniques but with less raport left me "un-soothed" or "not as soothed". Dr.Sarno says that can voo-doo work too, and that surgery is the most effective placebo we have. Placbo is a great healing effect.
I appreciate that you have some knowledge of TMS and perhaps that is what you are conveying to your clients, that is helping them.
I think you will admit that you are primarily here to advocate YOUR method and NOT the Good Doctor's method which is TMS Knowledge Therapy, and that you are also here in the hopes of gathering clients otherwise you would not display your phone number so prominently. |
| Curiosity18 |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 22:44:39
Let me say this for the record. I am a psychotherapist, also certified in EMDR. I must say it has been fascinating to observe all the controversy in this site associated with this technique. Although I have found it to be very helpful in resolving traumatic issues, I had yet to have had the experience of pain and other TMS issues resolving in clients. I have found, however that it can assist with the process of bringing to consciousness repressed fear and rage. I still believe that the key to healing TMS is through the processing of the emotions through deep insight, journaling, and/or psychotherapy. Obviously, repudiating the physical diagnosis, as well as resuming physical activity are also critical factors. I must also add however, that there are other EMDR therapists out there who would disagree with me on this issue, and would claim to have had success with chronic pain problems. I am only speaking from my own experience, both as someone who has done my own personal EMDR work, as well as utilized it with clients.
Curiosity |
| EFT therapist |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 21:48:19
To change beliefs? That is the question! My experience is
-education (like Dr. Sarno does)
-self exploration (answering questions, like "Is that really true", or "What if that's not true"; similar to Byron Katie's approach with "The Work")
-EFT
-Avatar (a course that can be taken: its ALL about beliefs)
-Sedona Method
Any others?
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 13:27:37
quote:
Originally posted by EFT therapist
Regarding your comment about placebo, doesn't it tell us that beliefs do in fact control the body? Isn't that exactly Dr. Sarno's main aim, to convince the mind to believe something so the pain goes away?? One of the complaints about placebo effect is that it often doesn't last. That may be because the root cause (or beliefs) have not been changed in most studies, but Dr. Sarno actually does address changing the belief (rather than using a false belief, like a sugar pill).
Interesting point about the placebo effect. I've had these same questions/thoughts. So, a temporary placebo effect results from changing one's thoughts for a period of time. (The word "believing" is often used here, as in "she believed she would get well," but this would be more in the thought realm, or belief-lite.) Since the pain/physical symptom returns, this suggests that the thought had not been strong enough or persistent enough to develop into a deeply held belief (which, if achieved, would have brought long-lasting or permanent relief/healing).
So, how do we cross the line between thinking and believing? I think this may have to do with changing our western motto of "seeing is believing" ("I will believe it when you show me Scientific Proof."), to "believing is seeing," or "what you Know will make it so." This involves finding the answers we seek inside ourselves rather than somewhere out in the wide, wide world. This reminds me of a quote I read some years ago--I think the author is Hazrat Ali--"Your medicine is in you, and you do not observe it. Your ailment is from yourself, and you do not register it."
SS
|
| EFT therapist |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 12:44:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by EFT therapist
I'm interested to know why you claim these techniques don't work.
.
The key point I am making is that we do not need to seek out alternative therapies. We do not need to find some magic way to balance our energy or to unlock our repressed emotions. It is not that complex.
Treating TMS is much more simple:
1. Repudiate the structural diagnoses.
2. Resume physical activity.
3. Explore sources of repressed rage.
Thanks Dave. Again, I whole heartedly support this process, because it works. For those that need step 3, I am personally not a big fan of traditional psychotherapy, although it is beneficial, because it is SO slow (I know from experience and great expence).
As for what is scientific, to me as a long-time researcher it is to look at the data (like what works) then make a hypothesis (why it works). All researchers (including me) are biased, however, and sometimes we won't look at data because we don't have a belief system in which it fits. Huge biases exist in medicine, many based on virtually no data (Dr. Sarno points out some of these), and biology in general is based in pre-quantum physics view of reality which is known to be incorrect -- if interested, see
http://www.brucelipton.com/article/embracing-the-immaterial-universe
So what is considered by mainstream as "scientific" is actually largely superstition. Correlations are very often interpreted as cause and effect (turning the faucet on to get water is a correlation, but the cause for the water to flow is not turning the faucet).
I've learned to focus on results, and be open minded about why something works. With this in mind, I invite you and others to look at reports given at
http://www.emofree.com/articles.aspx?id=19
I'm not saying one method might be better than the other, and I'm not trying to convince you or others, just encourage open mindedness. Open-mindedness is easy to say, but it actually means letting go of control, to admit that we may not really know how the world works, and this may be stressful. The good news is that there appears to be simple methods (EFT is also very simple) to relieve serious pain for many, and the sad news is the medical community won't accept it (and why would a neurosurgeon be willing to see that a simple method works better than his surgery for pain, with all his many years and expense invested in training?).
OK, thank's for letting me "lecture". I'm still getting over being a professor for so long! I'm very grateful to have learned about Dr. Sarno's success! And thanks for the comments.
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 07:40:02
quote:
Originally posted by EFT therapist
I'm interested to know why you claim these techniques don't work.
I do not make such a claim; I'm certainly in no position to do that. Personally I have trouble believing in any method that is advertised as "balancing the energy system" of the body. To me it seems like something spiritual, not scientific.
In the context of treating TMS I believe that Dr. Sarno would not recommend EMDR, EFT, hypnosis, accupuncture, or other similar techniques. The key point I am making is that we do not need to seek out alternative therapies. We do not need to find some magic way to balance our energy or to unlock our repressed emotions. It is not that complex.
Treating TMS is much more simple:
1. Repudiate the structural diagnoses.
2. Resume physical activity.
3. Explore sources of repressed rage.
Maybe EFT, EMDR, and other questionable techniques can aid step 3, maybe not. I don't know. Many people get better simply with steps 1 and 2. For those who need more help, Dr. Sarno perscribes "old fashioned" Freudian psychoanalysis. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 01:04:04
Thanks for your reply EFT Therapist. |
| EFT therapist |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 00:08:25
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
EFT is a questionable treatment method, like EMDR, which claims that using a physical distraction (for EFT is is tapping, for EMDR it is eye movement) is instrumental in helping the patient uncover repressed emotions.
Neither technique has been widely accepted by the psychology community and have not been backed up with significant clinical studies.
I believe these techniques are contradictory to TMS treatment because they reinforce the idea that we need some "magic bullet" to help access our emotions in order to be free from pain.
In my opinion the success of these techniques is likely proportional to the skill and talent of the therapist. That is, it's the therapy part that is successful, and the finger tapping or eye movements have nothing to do with it.
Dave,
I appreciate your skepticims but believe you are in error here.
(1) there is substantial research on the effectiveness of EMDR (which in my mentor's opinion is a form of hypnosis) and, from the EMDR home page: " EMDR has been listed as an effective treatment by the American Psychiatric Association, Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs, International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies, and numerous international agencies...More than a dozen controlled clinical trials support the use of EMDR...."
(2) the originator of EFT (Gary Craig, see emofree.com) does NOT claim the tapping is used as a distraction, nor does it claim to uncover repressed emotions. Rather, his hypnothesis is that it corrects an imbalance in the body's energy system. If you watch video's by Gary Craig, he does not really care so much about how it works, but rather that it does work.
I'm interested to know why you claim these techniques don't work. The skill of the therapist/doctor is always a factor, I agree. It appears from your comments, however, that you simply don't believe it, rather than having looked at clinical results(which is also what Dr Sarno's "proof" is, and I think that's valid) or personal experience (such as I assume you've had with Dr Sarno's methods). As Gary Craig says, EFT is A way, not THE way. Hopefully none of us get caught up in thinking there is only THE way, lest we discourage someone from trying something that might work for them.
Regarding your comment about placebo, doesn't it tell us that beliefs do in fact control the body? Isn't that exactly Dr. Sarno's main aim is, to convince the mind to believe something so the pain goes away?? One of the complaints about placebo effect is that it often doesn't last. That may be because the root cause (or beliefs) have not been changed in most studies, but Dr. Sarno actually does address changing the belief (rather than using a false belief, like a sugar pill). Much of hypnotherapy is about installing positive suggestions --maybe it would facilitate the acceptance of the belief that pain is psychosomatic. Just some ideas that I'm curious to hear your opinion about.
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA |
| EFT therapist |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 23:28:36
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Quote:
Hi EFT therapist,
Just curious as to what parts of the body form the "energy system"?
How much do you charge per session and how many sessions average does it take to heal someone?
Thanks and welome to the TMS Board.
Thank you for the welcome, Tom. The "energy system" refers the merdian system used in accupuncture. In fact, EFT is presented as an accupressure technique, although it also uses a type of affirmation. I refer you to the EFT site emofree.com which has much more to say about this. I am open to the idea that the tapping may act as a distraction, something like EMDR, rather than balancing the energy system -- I believe this is being tested in ongoing research.
I currently charge $70/hour. How many sessions on average to heal? The fastest I've worked with is a migraine sufferer, a colleague, who had the onset of a migraine at two different times we were in groups together. The first time the migraine went away within less than 10 minutes of EFT. The second time this person was also very upset because of infedelity in their marriage. With some exploration and description of the pain under light hypnosis, the migraines were described as "blinding". With continued EFT (tapping and affirmation) the migraine completely went away and this person has had no migraines since (now 4 months, and they previously occurred at least every 2 weeks) -- maybe the "benefit" of the migraines was that it was blinding them to the infidelity. In a way, this is like using education to fight pain, but the education comes from answering their own questions (i.e., self discovery). Dave might suggest it was the theraputic aspect and self discovery that helped the migraine, and it was probably helpful to address the cause, but the pain only subsided with continued EFT so it appears, at least, that the EFT was an important aspect.
Some reduction in pain intensity, or at least a character of the pain (such as moving to another location in the body, or changing from sharp to dull), almost always occurs during the first session. EFT may just result in a significant reduction, or it may result in complete cessation, or in a few cases EFT didn't have any apparent affect. If I have a client that shows no improvement in pain, or at least reduction in anxiety around the pain, after three sessions, I'll give a refund provided they have done EFT on their own between sessions (wouldn't it be nice if health care professionals did this, and why shouldn't they?). Some pain may be a combination of physical and emotional causes, so some physical aspects may need to be addressed working along with a health care professional. For long term chronic pain, I consider it useful for the client to see a professional who can evaluate diet, mineral & metal levels (mercury poisoning being an extreme case). In addition, I'm recommending new chronic pain clients read The Divided Mind. I would be very interested in working with TMS-oriented M.D.'s but only one is listed for the whole SF area! Do know of more?
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 20:26:17
quote:
Originally posted by Penny
Dave, I was just wondering what you think of journaling, dream analysis, and mindfulness exercises? Do you think these are complementary or contradictory for TMS treatment?
These are complementary because they are focused on the mind.
The problem with EFT and similar therapies is that they are gimmicks. There is no proof they work. Positive results could be due to placebo effect, or due to the psychological aspect of the treatment. Nevertheless since these therapies are focused on the mind, they are certainly less contradictory than chiropractic or accupuncture. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 19:56:04
Quote:
"I'm not too concerned about HOW it works, which is supposedly by balancing the energy system, rather that it DOES work."
____________________________________________________________________
Hi EFT therapist,
Just curious as to what parts of the body form the "energy system"?
How much do you charge per session and how many sessions average does it take to heal someone?
Thanks and welome to the TMS Board. |
| Penny |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 18:08:50
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I believe these techniques are contradictory to TMS treatment because they reinforce the idea that we need some "magic bullet" to help access our emotions in order to be free from pain.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I was under the belief that sedona and EFT modalities were tools, not the ultimate solution to TMS.
Dave, I was just wondering what you think of journaling, dream analysis, and mindfulness exercises? Do you think these are complementary or contradictory for TMS treatment?
This is a really interesting thread.
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
| Kimakim |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 13:32:19
Thanks EFT Therapist. I've used EFT and have not had good luck with it for the pain. However, I've had terrific results with my obssesion, doubt and fears about my sciatica pain. I actually think that when I started to turn the corner on the TMS was when I was able to break my obsession with the pain through using EFT. It was like the pain would come up and I just didn't notice in on a conscious level. Very, very helpful for me to just keep doing what I needed to do and not get bogged down with the fearful thoughts that had been happening over and over in my head.
Also someone mentioned the Sedona method...I don't know about that, but I can recommend the Work of Byron Katie, (thework.com) which I mentioned on another thread. The methods are similar. It's a great way to question those stressful thoughts that us TSMers seem to be so good at.
|
| EFT therapist |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 13:21:12
As my user name implies, I am an EFT practioner (and have benefited greatly from its use) and would like to respond to some of the comments about it. My background is in scientific research at a large university for 24 years before becoming a hypnotherapist, so I am highly skeptical of claims that some technique works. I became an EFT specialist simply because I saw dramatic results with it, including cessation of migraines. I'm not too concerned about HOW it works, which is supposedly by balancing the energy system, rather that it DOES work. The Sedona method, which is a little like EFT without the tapping, also often works very well -- I find it is particularly effective with light hypnosis.
I learned about Dr. Sarno's work through one of my clients who had nearly all of his chronic back pain disappear upon reading Divided Mind a few days before me. We did EFT primarily on fear of the pain returning as well as underlying issues of anger. The pain reduced even more, and he feels much more calm and confident.
Those who make comments about EFT not being accepted by the psychology community, and thus conclude it is probably not effective, may wish to consider that this is the same as saying TMS and the related treatment is not effective is not accepted by the mainstream medical community. First of all, the board of directors for EFT are nearly all M.D.'s (see emofree.com) and there are many case studies by M.D.'s showing its effectiveness. Second, my suggestion is to focus on what gets results, not on what the psychological or medical community accept. Perhaps just try it and see for yourself; think of it as a complement to Dr. Sarno's education method. The founder of EFT has made it public domain, and the user manual can be downloaded for free at emofree.com and excellent DVD's are available at reasonable cost ($60 for 9 DVD basic course). So you don't need to spend a lot of money seeing a therapist -- in fact, one of the main reasons I specialize in EFT is that it usually produces very fast results for emotional problems, and if the pain is emotional in nature this can result in rapid pain reduction.
EFT was originally intended for emotional problems and to help make psychotherapy much more efficient. What has been found over the past 10 years is that, suprisingly, many chronic pain conditions are effectively treated (hundreds of clinical reports on emofree.com), but no research studies that I'm aware of for pain, just for emotional issues. Research does show EFT is effective for fear, and reduction of fear of pain recurring alone with TMS would seem useful.
In my opinion, we need to be skeptical yet at the same time open minded and willing to look at the reports and try it for ourselves. I never dreamed that I would be an EFT specialist -- just like those who recover using Dr. Sarno's educational process, I was convinced by results for myself and my clients.
Having been a scientific researcher for many years, with over 60 publications, and can say that much of the research is highly biased and that new treatments or ideas are highly resisted, often for many, many years. Its important to realize that researchers' careers are often based (or perceived to be by them) on whether on not their research has a certain outcome, or at least an outcome that is publishable (no publications, no funding!). This is discussed very well in some of the chapters in The Divided Mind.
I encourage everyone with TMS to keep using Dr. Sarno's techniques by all means! Obviously they give results, and that is the bottom line. I also encourage those with TMS to also investigate techniques such as EFT, Sedona Method, and various approaches (including both of these) with hypnosis. One thing everyone should learn from Dr. Sarno's book is that the accepted treatment for symptoms by the medical community are not always correct, and often are based on very little data.
The only caveat is that if you try EFT, or other methods, once and it doesn't seem to work, don't throw it out or say it works for others and not you(which is what I initially did!). Its not the EFT -- there is an art to it, and sometimes it works very fast and sometimes more gradually (as in my case). You may wish to look at the "9 stumbling blocks" on the emofree website. I have also published a short article on EFT and pain which is available at
http://www.openexchange.org/features/harper.html
I am absolutely delighted with Dr. Sarno's work. His work, and perhaps using alternative therapies like EFT (and whatever else gets results!) will help bring the health care crisis under control. What a waste that people suffer unnecessary pain and even often have unnecessary surgery. I have a friend that had a spinal fusion in her neck, and it not only didn't cure the pain, it disabled her for 7 months! She finally recovered completely from her pain, but primarily through a detox program along with some hypnotherapy. She was diagnosed by someone who does dark-field blood work, which is another effective method that the medical establishment is trying to shut down (its used a lot in Europe). This included a hair analysis, which showed among other things, highly elevated mercury.
Lets all have healthy skepticism, yet be open to what yields results.
510-559-8667
Berkeley,CA |
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