| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Susie |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 17:54:23
I just read an article in the New York times that Andre Agassi is suffering horrible back pain during this current tournament. It is the end of his career and he is struggling to stay afloat. The article said he is in so much pain that he cannot ride in a car. He is currently enduring back injections,probably steriods. What a shame he,like many,has no info. on Sarno. This is such typical tms. What do you think tom? |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ndb |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 16:43:28
quote:
Originally posted by atg
We need everyone to have it and believe it because any doubt triggers our own ambiguity, and this very doubt itself has become an intolerable emotion.
I don't agree with that. You are right that we may not know if a person has TMS. But maybe we push TMS because of the level of relief we have seen it has the possibility to give. And because chronic conditions seem so prevalent in our friends and family. I find it painful that people I care about suffer needlessly because they are not willing to try this approach, or sometimes worse, they don't understand it.
I always feel like...oh my god, how great would it be if this person who is so talented and seems to have chronic pain could just make it vanish like I did. So my thought was not so much assigning TMS to somebody but telling them about it in case they don't know (and could possibly apply it to themselves).
ndb |
| atg |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 14:43:17
There is an article on Agassi in Sports Illustrated from several months ago. In it, it described the MRI findings of his back. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it sure sounded worse than anything I'd ever heard. Something like several of the vertebrae have been crushed together, or one was starting to move above the other...
In the same article, it talked about his relationship with his perfectionistic and overbearing father. A dad who made him hit a thousand tennis balls twice a day, even on Christmas. A dad when he won his first grand slam in 5 sets, said, "you should have won it in 4."
The truth is, we don't have enough information to know if Agassi has TMS. We don't have his MRI and we don't know enough about his personality. I think there is a tendency on this board to assign TMS to EVERYBODY, because even one person not having it, would reinforce our own inner doubts about TMS.
I have a friend who needs to convince every agnostic he meets that God exists, and I think it's because he struggles with his own doubts. I think TMS sufferers are similar. We need everyone to have it and believe it because any doubt triggers our own ambiguity, and this very doubt itself has become an intolerable emotion. |
| salamander |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 12:40:05
Agassi has had chronic back pain for years...and it never seems to heal. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 10:50:06
quote Sal:
"...however, it is assumptions like this that prolong TMS. If you continue to cast doubt on pain being due to TMS, you are certainly in for the long haul."
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Even Dr. Sarno says that NOT everything is TMS. It's my estimation that about 80% of what ails man/woman in modern culture IS pure TMS. The rest is REAL structural damage.
The best thing for TMS newbees to do, would probably be, to avoid message boards like this, and immerse themselves in Dr. Sarno's books. They should acquire the "TMS-KNOWLEDGE-PENICILLIN", until they are able to quote Sarno by rote, before exposing themselves to the, sometimes, conflicitng TMS "noise", as can be found here on occasion.
The emotional milieu, would be the TMS "volume control" for the real stuctural pain. To paraphrase AustinGary, the founder of this board:
"If you hit yourself with a hammer 8000 times, that is not TMS, that is structural".
AS I said, if anything, Andre, blocks OUT real structural pain, successfully overcoming it. The proof is that he "got through" at his senior age, competeing against "youngsters". Andre plays a very PHYSICAL sytle of game--hitting the ball from the baseline as hard as he can. He has never had a serve/volley game to speak of. He only comes to the net if the ball is going to bounce twice. He has never mastered the variety of shots that an all-court player like a Sampras or Fedderer have.
If Andre had TMS he would have bailed a long time ago and used his pain as an excuse NOT to show-up and to quit. If anything, his opponent could be accused of a TMS moment when he started cramping in the fifth set.
But I don't feel that was TMS either. Bagdatis showed remarkable courage to continue playing while enduring intense pain and doing everything in his power to shake the cramp off, which he eventually did. It was real cramping due to the physical rigors of a 5 set match and a tough opponent, known for breaking down his opponents by running them from corner to corner.
If anything, Andre exhibited TMS of the "gray matter", otherwise known as the "choke", when he couldn't finnish off his opponent when Bagdatis was playing on one leg and crawling. Andre couldn't get a first serve in to save his life and just spun his second serve in shallow, making it easy for his opponent to hit spectacular winners on the one leg he was reduced to. I CAN SERVE BETTER THAN THAT!
The fight to the death, gladitorial exhibiton, thrilled the fans, but to me it was a sorry display of jungle ball. Andre's mental game broke down miserably when Bgdatis's cramping, threw his rhythm off. I'm sure Andre would be the first to admit it.Andre plays like a machine, his rhythm got disrupted by his opponents, apparent imminent demise. Andre was not able to deliever the much needed coupe de gras.
To my knowledge the Good Doctor has never been a world class athelete. That is not a put-down, he is a WORLD CLASS DOCTOR, which in my book is a lot more important! Not every injury or cramp is TMS, most things are. The issues of competitive athletes are more complex than that. Top athletes have to learn how to play in real pain, despite, being injured. Most atheletes have a bandage on some part of their body everytime they take the field.
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| salamander |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 08:42:41
Agassi's pain should looks like TMS to me. Tons of pressure. End of a career. Declining ability. Internally, he wants so badly to do well in the last tournament of his career.
I really feel, like Sarno does, that the vast majority of "structural defects" in the back are not a source of pain. Having suffered for over a year with a bad back, coupled with lousy looking MRI's, most doctors recommended spinal fusion for me (at age 22). I'm now 40 and have no pain whatsoever. I'm certainly no Agassi, but I'm an avid Tennis player that plays a couple of hours a day.
Perhaps Andre does have a problem going on....however, it is assumptions like this that prolong TMS. If you continue to cast doubt on pain being due to TMS, you are certainly in for the long haul.
regards,
Doug |
| Susie |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 06:35:28
You could sure be right Tom. I thought maybe because age was forcing his retirement, he might have some internal anger. He doesn't want to quit the game he loves. Not being able to ride in a car really struck a chord with me. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 21:32:06
Andre is the oldest top tier player on the tour today at 35. Sarno says "real" injuries can have a TMS component. That is, your emotions are the "volume control" for the pain. I don't think in Andre's case his pain is TMS-it's real. If anything his strong competitive nature would allow him to block-out the real pain--the other side of the TMS coin. Also the cortisone shot he got in his back.
In Pete Sampras's case, I thought about sending him Sarno's book. He was much more cerebral than Andre and I felt he cold have benefitted from it. His problem was that he was the best, ran out of opponents, and challenges, (accept for the the French, and got bored. I feel he didn't have enough motivational distractions to block-out the pain. |
| ndb |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 20:48:43
I totally thought of the same thing! I looked around a bit to see if he had an email address, but didn't find anything.
I was thinking that professional athletes do live rather punishingly...do their bodies not deteriorate at all?? Is their pain mostly TMS too?
You also hear all the time about basketball players with bad knees getting cortisone shots so they can play a game... |
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