| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| hsb |
Posted - 08/31/2006 : 05:44:49
Hi all-
The gremlin has gotten me again. Abut 3-4 weeks ago, it attacked my knee and I was able to run through it and pain went away. You all (Art and Al, et al.) helped alot. Boy was I happy. Well all of a sudden I have hamstring and adductor pain. This time I don't have an incident to attach it to (last time it was speedwork). I have been running my usual stuff and the hamstring pain surprised me after Tuesday's run - no unusual incidents. Ran this morning and the pain definitely is with me and the hamstring is very tight. I had a sports hernia surgery back in 3/05 and it sort of reminds me of that pain. Needless to say I am sort of panicking again like I did a few weeks ago. I keep recalling how I have read that many runner's careers were ended with hamstring pain that never got better. Plus it is getting worse rather than better.
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. I find it hard to remain calm again; thoughts of the future, i.e. this will take me out of running for months are rampant.
HELP.
HSB
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| art |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 13:28:21
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
Art-
I'm impressed - you were able to conquer ITB which is a dreaded running injury by continuing to run. I am having a difficult time with this hamstring. I haven't run since thursday. I plan on trying to run on my regularly scheduled run on Tuesday. My reaction is going to be important if the pain is still just as bad. I don't want to dwell on that - we shall see.
I will let you guys know though. Right now the hamstring has calmed down but I kinda think it is going to tighten up when I run.
Thanks all for your help.
HSB
For what it's worth, I've also run with pretty significant hamstring pain.I had it for months, and it was only when I took up kick biking, a combo scooter/bike that it began to get better...The interesting thing is that kicking is quite tough on the hamstrings...
The body is an amazing mechanism...It consistently surprises me in its abilities to endure, adapt, and heal...Never sell it short...
Try to keep the faith...
Happy running... |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 11:52:17
Art-
I'm impressed - you were able to conquer ITB which is a dreaded running injury by continuing to run. I am having a difficult time with this hamstring. I haven't run since thursday. I plan on trying to run on my regularly scheduled run on Tuesday. My reaction is going to be important if the pain is still just as bad. I don't want to dwell on that - we shall see.
I will let you guys know though. Right now the hamstring has calmed down but I kinda think it is going to tighten up when I run.
Thanks all for your help.
HSB |
| art |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 15:49:55
HS,
Don't get the idea that this is easy. I struggle with the same issues and still have lots of fear. There's no sure fire way I know of to discern the difference between TMS and actual injuries...
I think the important thing is to find a way to stop living in fear..When pain strikes I try to assume TMS and back off from that basic assumption only as I have to....
But even the severe pain is often TMS...I was absolutely amazed that my illiotibial band syndrome went away....not from rest...but from continued running...IN that case I'd just run til the pain made it impossible to continue, then repeat the process on my next scheduled run. |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 16:36:07
Art-
Thanks for your input. I feel that one of MY problems with TMS v. real injuries is how to discern. You wrote "you absolutely know it would be the wrong thing to do...8 same deal only there's a bit of doubt...7 fair amount of doubt...etc etc."
I have yet to learn what is the right thing to do ..... and then I go into the incessant tape loop. If I run, I will make it worse, it won't get better, yada yada == the gremlin in full force. I admire you guys who have the power to not give those thoughts merit.
when i ran yesterday, the pain was about an 8 to start and then modified to about a 6 during the run but later on in the day it was about an 8. there was no event that i can recollect that caused the pain, it just happened 2 weeks ago. i wish it were easy for me to move the doubting thoughts away.
i am going to swim this weekend and play some golf as you said Art. But I wonder if I will have my answer after three days ......... will three days be enough to change my thinking?
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
HSB
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| art |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 15:54:54
HS,
A few days off from running is not the end of the world even if it feels like it...Go swimming, play a round of golf, take a walk...or just do nothing. I've read that a well trained runner gets about a 1 week grace period before beginning to lose fitness...
My m.o. with new injuries is to proceed, but with caution, giving myself the usual TMS pep talk along the way..If I'm able to run,and the pain stays at a tolerable level, I'll continue...If the pain gets too intense, I'll stop (this has not happend in a long time)...Just because we're TMS'ers it does not follow that we are therefore invulnerable to real injuries..
I think it's pefectly reasonable to take a few days off if that's what you feel is called for...
JUst how bad is the pain? Let's try a scale of 1-10...10 being you couldn't run if you wanted to...9 being you could run but you absolutely know it would be the wrong thing to do...8 same deal only there's a bit of doubt...7 fair amount of doubt...etc etc..
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| hsb |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 13:07:01
I ran yesterday and the pain was pretty bad during but mostly after the run. I decided to lay off for at least the weekend and see what happens. Art - I think you recommended this to me before. I don't want to do this but I guess I need to see if there is any improvement via rest.
Art, Al or TT - what do you think?
thanks
hsb |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/07/2006 : 06:02:32
Well happily the knee pain was short-lived. Absolutely gone now.
My panic was all for naught.
BUT, the hamstring is still pretty bad. I honestly don't want to stop running and go the PT route. I am fighting the resting thing and taking time off. It's been over 2 weeks and I haven't rested it and the internal fight continues: run v. not run.
GRRRRRRR.
Thanks
HSB
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| carbar |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 18:53:50
quote:
This is not to say I don't still feel fear at times, but I try like hell to just turn a deaf ear to that miserable, whining, wretched hypochondriacal coward that lives inside of me...
THere's real suffering in the world...How unseemly it is for me to go into high panic mode because I might not be able to go for my run today...I sometimes think a lasting recovery from all this TMS stuff requires that we change the way we think about the world and our place inside it.....
art, you really have a great way of describing your TMS and the place in the world thing. I'm glad you post so frequently, it makes this place feel very inhabited.
I agree with the world and our place comment. I really feel like TMS is drawing me out of my shell and into the world. When you are not in pain, there's a lot more energy to give back to the universe in all kinds of various ways. I used to feel a draw to this giving back vibe when I was a youngster, but I was so disempowered and depressed that I wound up physically disempowered by my "injuries." This resulted in becoming more self-centered, which is a scary place to be and there's the TMS cycle. When you are obsessing about yourself (in pain), you are in pain.
Sigh. Well, thanks again for keeping me thinking. |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 11:35:35
hi art - happy labor day to all. i do xtrain. i swim 2-3x a week and i lift weights. so running is only part of what i do, but to me the favorite.
today i swam and have been icing the knee to see if it makes any difference.
it is all so bizarre to me - just the sequence of pains - above the knee, hamstring, adductor and now kneecap.
but i am probably thinking way too much about the physical. i have been pondering what's bothering me and trying to make a connection there. one thing dr. sarno says is that we connect the pain to an event and we get the fear. i have no event to attach the kneecap pain to. though i do have some emotional stuff that perhaps is the cause. just don't know and i do have some trepidation that this ain't going away too soon.
i will keep you guys posted. thanks for all the help
hsb
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| art |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 11:18:16
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
hey art,
i'm 53!!! i have been running tues, thurs, sat and sunday for years. in all my years of injuries and i've had tons which i attribute to TMS, i have NEVER had knee pain. it is so weird that in the last 3 weeks, i've had knee pain, adductor pain, hamstring pain and now kneecap pain. i am sure a PT would say it is all connected, yada yada yada. i' m trying to look deeper why in 3 weeks everything cropped up. as you are familiar, this past year ive battled alot but came through so being hit with 3 types of pains is a CHALLENGE!
it is going to take a ton of mental strength not to go the dr. PT, route. most of my friends who are runners has had runner's knee and i don't want to hear their stories. i think Suz wrote, that it takes alot of strength to beat the gremlin, he/she is testing. boy the ultimate.
i am going to take a few days off and see what transpires. i remember you guys talking about ITB being a running stopper, this pain this morning did the trick for me!!
thanks art, i will keep you posted.
HSB
Just a thought...Do you x-train at all? There's a whole world of very enjoyable work out modalities that enable one to do somehting almost evry day, and importantly as we get into our 50's, avoid the consecutive running days which for many of us is pushing the envelope..This is not to say you can't get away with it as we're all individuals and age in different ways and at different rates, but if your body's anything like mine, I think you're right up against it... |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 18:30:05
hey art,
i'm 53!!! i have been running tues, thurs, sat and sunday for years. in all my years of injuries and i've had tons which i attribute to TMS, i have NEVER had knee pain. it is so weird that in the last 3 weeks, i've had knee pain, adductor pain, hamstring pain and now kneecap pain. i am sure a PT would say it is all connected, yada yada yada. i' m trying to look deeper why in 3 weeks everything cropped up. as you are familiar, this past year ive battled alot but came through so being hit with 3 types of pains is a CHALLENGE!
it is going to take a ton of mental strength not to go the dr. PT, route. most of my friends who are runners has had runner's knee and i don't want to hear their stories. i think Suz wrote, that it takes alot of strength to beat the gremlin, he/she is testing. boy the ultimate.
i am going to take a few days off and see what transpires. i remember you guys talking about ITB being a running stopper, this pain this morning did the trick for me!!
thanks art, i will keep you posted.
HSB |
| art |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 11:00:34
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
Art-
I ran yesterday and the hamstring was so-so. I felt more adductor pain but i plugged on. At the very end I started feeling kneecap pain. So it was low grade hamstring, adductor stuff. This morning I went for a run/walk and my kneecap was excruciating. This was the type of pain that stops you in your tracks, not the knee pain that I had a few weeks ago.
So now I am wondering why it is all the right leg - is it all connected, knee, adductor, hamstring? Real or not real? or is it the TMS that moves around. This new kneecap pain is scary. I am not sure I can even run on it.
What would you do Art?
thanks
HSB
With genuinely excruciating pain I would not run...I'd take a few days off and see how it responded...
One thing I would absolutely not do, is run two days in a row..But I'm 55 years old...maybe you're a lot younger.. |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 08:38:23
Art-
I ran yesterday and the hamstring was so-so. I felt more adductor pain but i plugged on. At the very end I started feeling kneecap pain. So it was low grade hamstring, adductor stuff. This morning I went for a run/walk and my kneecap was excruciating. This was the type of pain that stops you in your tracks, not the knee pain that I had a few weeks ago.
So now I am wondering why it is all the right leg - is it all connected, knee, adductor, hamstring? Real or not real? or is it the TMS that moves around. This new kneecap pain is scary. I am not sure I can even run on it.
What would you do Art?
thanks
HSB |
| art |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 07:28:19
So what happened on your run? |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 16:35:04
art you wrote:
"I can only tell you what has worked for me in the past. Is there a chance you're hamstring is actually injured? Yes, of course. We play a high stakes game when we go out and run with pain. One should never lose sight of that"
therein i feel lies the problem for us runners. could my hamstring really be injured ..... i don't know and i struggle with trying to figure that out. and that "miserable, whining" obsessive, mind of mine tears me apart with that battle. i definitely have more stuff going on this time and i am doubting my ability to run through this one.
my mind that is going a mile a minute is winning. but i am going to get up and go for a run tomorrow.
art i appreciate your understanding. it makes no sense why this hamstring came on all of a sudden so that i suppose is my cue.
thanks.
hsb
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| art |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 16:17:08
quote:
You once wrote about the fear and just going for a run and then the pain would go away by not giving it any importance. I tried that yesterday and boy was my hamstring sore afterwards and still is
I can only tell you what has worked for me in the past. Is there a chance you're hamstring is actually injured? Yes, of course. We play a high stakes game when we go out and run with pain. One should never lose sight of that. We have to at all times treat our bodies respectfully..As I recall I took you to task a bit for not taking a day off after that speed session...I thought that was a little reckless..Our bodies are not made of iron. It is possible to injure them.
But at a certain point I decided that I simply did not want to live in fear any longer. This is not to say I don't still feel fear at times, but I try like hell to just turn a deaf ear to that miserable, whining, wretched hypochondriacal coward that lives inside of me...
THere's real suffering in the world...How unseemly it is for me to go into high panic mode because I might not be able to go for my run today...I sometimes think a lasting recovery from all this TMS stuff requires that we change the way we think about the world and our place inside it.....
I know I'm drifing far afield here...And I hope I don't sound as if I'm lecturing you..I'm not. I've been right where you are myself, and not all that long ago, like yesterday in fact when I woke up with what felt like a fresh case of patellar tendonitis...It's just that I've got some tools to deal with this stuff now...BY the end of the day the pain was largely gone...
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| hsb |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 08:44:50
I so agree with you Al. There is absolutely no way that I would get "hurt" so often. Geez in the last 4 months, it was achilles, calf and knee. It's not like I am an elite runner doing hundreds of miles and speedwork, etc. Makes absolutely no sense and that is why I gravitate towards the TMS dx. But of course when I talk to my other running buddies, it's like "a hamstring, that takes forever to heal", "boy you need massage or treatment". Tough to tune the brain out!!!!
One question - I think I know what's bothering me and I realize what it is, how do i convince my brain that I understand why it's making this pain.
Thanks again Al.
HSB |
| altherunner |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 08:34:10
I used to worry excessively, and make every pain a catastrophe. I still get the odd ache or pain, but I try to ignore, or think what the brain is trying to distract me from. Sometimes something small comes up, and the pain goes away. I also listen to books on cd on my long runs, and I will try to listen more intently to the book, instead of paying any attention to the pain. This was more difficult,
of course, when the pain is intense, but worth a try. Your muscles and tendons get unbelievably strong in your legs from running, and are actually much tougher to damage than what you hear and read about. We are conditioned to believe we are weak, to have pain, take pills, see physical therapists. |
| hsb |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 08:27:47
Thanks Art. I think that catastrophizing is part of TMS. It IS odd that I would keep getting these "injuries" every few weeks. This time I do not even have anything to blame the hamstring pain on.
Many of the posts on this board talk about the fear. And I know I have that fear that each individual "injury" or "pain" is going to turn into something that will last weeks and weeks. (See post by Geeta). You once wrote about the fear and just going for a run and then the pain would go away by not giving it any importance. I tried that yesterday and boy was my hamstring sore afterwards and still is.
Thanks for replying Art. Never had a hamstring thing before.
HSB |
| art |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 05:39:26
quote:
For some reason I don't have the confidence this time that this hamstring stuff will go away quickly
As I recall you didn't have much confidence the other things would go away either..
It will help to identify patterns (in this case a different injury evry couple of weeks....) Then evaluate objectively/E.g. does it make sense that you would get a completely new injury every two weeks?
It will also help to quit catastrophizing, another pattern.
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