| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| allen_non |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:58:56
Hi Everyone,
I have had TMS pain in my low back for many years. Now thanks to Dr. Sarno & Fred Amir, I've been able to reduce my back pain from 7 (scale of 1-10, 10 being worst pain) down to a 1-2. Very Happy!
Recently, I started having pain in my left elbow with symptoms consistent with "Golfer's Elbow" tendonitis. I looked back in my trusty "Mind-Body Connection" book, and sure enough, elbow tendonitis is listed there as a manifestation of TMS. My physical activities prior to this elbow symptom were doing lots of pull-ups and grip work, both of which utilize the forearm flexors and are well accepted (in other venues) contributors to this condition.
You'd think I would have learned by now, given my improvement with my low back, but I'm having trouble making myself think of this "tendonitis" as being psychological. Medical information resources state that if I do all the "right things" now (Ice, rest, stretching, etc), I can shorten the duration of this. I want to attribute this to TMS so that (1)I can continue working out, and (2)so I will have a "handle" on it in case the pain later moves somewhere else.
I'd like to think of this as me making progress in my overall TMS, getting the pain to be "on the run". But, I am also a mechanical engineer, so I trend toward physical "cause & effect" scenarios.
Can anyone who has knowledge or had similar pain/ location give me their experiences in addressing this? I have thick skin and am asking for your help, so feel free to blast away if that's what it takes to get me in the correct mindset.
Trying to "Keep the faith"
Thanks,
Allen |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 14:00:06
thanx Jay! You are right...And the walking is my first attempt in doing that...Baby steps as they say in the wonderful and hilarious movie "What about Bob!"
Hugs back,
Karen |
| wolf29 |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 13:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by allen_non
My point is, once you know you're not going to damage yourself further, you have to "will power" the pain away.
Well put in my opinion. I believe Sarno said something to the effect that fear of doing more physical damage to yourself was more detrimental than the repressed emotions themselves. That's what held me back in the past when I tried certain exercises but quit them because of the fear of hurting myself more.
Once you buy into the fact it's TMS and you're structually strong, then it becomes a challenge between you and the fear. The fear can replace the repressed emotions you may have. At that point it becomes a test of wills. Your conscious mind vs. your subconscious mind. If anyone can win a battle against yourself it's yourself 
Nothing that hasn't been said before but you're letting TMS rob you of the things you enjoy Karen. That would surely piss me off to no end. It was robbing me of certain activities and I got mad at myself for it. You have to take back your life Karen. I know you know that but if you but into the TMS diagnosis you have to challenge yourself. I know Sarno recommends to do so when you feel ready, but don't let that be when you too old to enjoy the things you used to. That would be a shame and you would have no one else to blame but yourself.
Hugs 
Jay |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 13:03:21
Allen,
I wrote back to your other reply in a post b4 the brief one saying i have to take this all in...Can you check it out please...Thanx! ~K |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 12:59:10
You are soooo right Allen and I really need to hear this and take it in! Thank you! |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 12:56:13
Thanx so much Allen,
Your reply was very helpful!! I actually used to take QiGong and Kung Fu years ago but I stopped...After I had 2 real injuries to my knee, which later turned into knee TMS, I couldn't do the bending involved...QiGong does not require anywhere near the knee bending that Tha Chi does, but it still does require some...I loved it! It helps on all levels...The only place I know of in this town that teaches it is quite far away from me...Once I can move my neck enough to drive myself there safely, I would like to get back into it...The knee is doing better these days, although the hamstrings and quads never came back like the other leg, not yet anyway...I think my knee would be okay starting Qigong again, in other words...Thanx for reminding me!
Yes Fear has been in alot of my posts, I realize that..The pain and tightness is scary but the neuro symptoms I had, (my head moving on it's own while laying in bed, twitching, burning, etc..) scared me way more then the pain...I was not convinced that i had something structural going on...I still have shades of doubt which I hate and fight every day! Good news is, the walking is helping me heal regardless of my mind set...It is slow, but I see progress...and it feels great to even be walking in the park for 40 minutes straight when just a month ago I was flat on my back in bed...
Those darn doctors really did a number on me, conditioning wise...So I have had to fight BIG TIME to get them and their diagnosis about my neck out of my head! I have several close friends that are chiros too, so that doesn't help! ONe is open to Sarno's way of thinking, thank God!
This may sound crazy but i think that the way I was feeling (trapped in Vegas, lonely and missing family/friends back East, money issues...etc..) literally lodged itself in my neck...All I did was pick up an ice pack off my knee 2 months ago when this acute attack began...Now I have got to work carefully to get range of motion back into my neck without force...When I try force it tightens more...But the walking is inadvertently helping...both mentally and physically by increasing blood flow, etc..SO I am hopeful...but still struggling...I saw first hand with the silly drama that happened on here yesterday how stress goes RIGHT to my neck...so i learned something valuable there...I did kind of know that already, however...
I wish I lived in a city where things like QIgong were more readily available..How I miss New Jersey! Anyway, thanx again for your great words of encouragement...Glad you are doing well!!!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
| allen_non |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 12:41:29
Karen,
also, I noticed this on the "other thread"
"Thanx FlybyNight for your comment...Glad you saw it...It is so important as many see this movie as possible...BTW, I saw some of your old posts about neck issues you had back in March..How are you doing? I am still coming out of an acute neck TMS attack..."
"still coming out of an acute neck TMS attack"
Instead of focusing on where you are coming from, or even the progress you have made, try focusing on how much closer to your goal you already are. Like, "my neck is 30% better than it was when I started applying the Sarno theories, and I've figured out that 'this or that' causes 'something or other'".
If I was running a marathon (which I would totally hate), and I had run 1 mile out of the 26, I'd be ready to quit because I'd have so little progress to show for my work and so much work ahead of me. If I had run 25 of the 26 miles, I'd still be ready to quit because I'd be thinking of all that running I've been doing and how much I hate running. BUT, if I had run 10, 15, 20, or 25 out of 26 miles, I'd be thinking about HOW CLOSE I AM TO MY GOAL, and getting closer with each step. Even a day with some increase in pain, or a new pain (like my elbow on Monday), is still progress, because you are learning more about your "enemy" and how to beat it. That's dwelling positively on the goal, and getting your mind off the problems.
It reminds me of the TMS parable thread about the 2 wolves. Feed the one you want to win. Starve the other one. Deny it any credit for fear or pain.
And again, I'm preaching to myself here as well.
Allen
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| allen_non |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 12:22:55
Karen,
Have you ever heard of Qigong? It is a martial art form (no fighting) similar to the gentle motions of Tae Chi except it also has a lot of joint mobility built in. I think it could be good for you, since the movements are gentle enough that you would not have to fear an aggressive motion. Check out http://www.dragondoor.com/dv018.html and see what you think.
I've put a couple of people, who were afraid of certain movements, on some of the exercises and they had good outcomes. Plus, doing all the drills is a good overall gentle workout in itself which would involve your whole body. And it doesn't take all that long to do, so you could add it to your walking.
I know it's hard to do movements when you have learned to associate that motion with fear. I was like that back in November before I learned about Sarno. I was scared to do deadlifts or swings because of my back. Not just fear, but sharp, breath taking pain, and also fear of doing more damage. Sarno cured me of the fear of doing more damage, and I can deal with pain. Now I'm 10 times better than I was, not totally pain free, but even my wife (who lovingly listened but was still skeptical) has started commenting to friends of hers that I've found something that works.
Most recently, and the reason for this thread originally, was a pain in my elbow. Any Dr. would diagnose me with "golfer's elbow" based on the clinical signs. It was affecting my ability to hang onto a pullup bar or swing a kettlebell, which is very strenuous on the grip, and the tendons in the elbow. After some encouragement from this group, (thanks Wolf, my buddy!), I did my regular scheduled workout, which was particularly gruelling, and my elbow did just fine. It's still a tiny bit sore, so I probably do have some very minor irritation (even Sarno says everyone is entitled to a little bit of pain). But, my fear is gone, and I'm charging on.
My point is, (and please understand, I'm not criticizing, I know where you're coming from), once you know you're not going to damage yourself further, you have to "will power" the pain away. For example, I got a bunch of mosquito bites yesterday, and I HATE itching. I tried the mental trick I learned from Fred Amir's book, and said "I am not going to allow this itching". Less than 3 minutes later, itching was gone. Today, I don't even have the bumps from the bites. Use your subconscious as YOUR SERVANT, do not be ITS SERVANT. Make it give you the results YOU want.
Back to the Qigong- take a look at the link above. If it looks like something you think would work for you, and that you would do, let me know. I read the word "fear" in your posts alot, and you gotta break that pattern. Since Sarno and Amir, everytime single I've challenged my pain or fear, I've been pleasantly suprised (and I DO mean SUPRISED!).
Hope this helps....
Allen |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 10:49:50
Speaking of weights..I miss working out so much..Cannot wait to get back to it..But I always used machines at the gym, especially for upper body...I seem to be able to lift more and it's easier on my neck if I use machines, especially for biceps...I don't know if it is conditioning or if there is some merit to what i noticed... |
| wolf29 |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 09:39:27
I'm not a big fan of machines either. Always have been and always will be a free weight guy. I don't care for weight stack machines at all unless it's to do something like tricep pushdowns or similar. Which I don't even bother with when you can do much better exercises like dips or close grip press.
I will say I like a couple of machine based exercises like cable rows. I've really grown to like that exercise and the constant tension on the back muscles. Plus it's another good test for my TMS lower back to stabalize myself in the upright position.
I just love it when I hear people's hesitation to free weights because they don't want to get too big  They use machines because they just want to tone 
To each his own I guess. Whatever floats your boat
By the way, I just got my new Trap Bar last night and am going to deadlift with it tonight. I've tried one before and it's a great combination of a squat and deadlift without worrying about scraping your knees.
Love getting new toys
|
| allen_non |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 08:08:49
The only real use I've ever seen for machines is in some cases for rehab, where stablity/ strength is lacking in certain structures. For example, a leg extension machine can build LIMITED strength around a joint until a patient is strong enough to do squats. Even then, there are ways to keep using light freeweights instead of the machine. I had a 95% torn superspinatus repaired surgically back in August of 2004. The doc had to cut it the rest of the way, clean up the ends, & stitch it back together. I did PT for 4 months & slowly re-introduced resistance thru thera-bands, light dumbells, & finally kettlebells. Now, I'm still less than 24 months post op, and I work out swinging 70 & 88# kettlebells single handed, pressing 70# for reps even on my repaired side, and doing one-arm snatches with the 70 & 88. My ortho hates that movement because it does put lots of stress on the SS tendon, but that gives an idea of how effective even a rehab program can be without ever touching a machine.
If a machine is the only thing available, one silver lining is that at least you can change the weights easily by moving a pin. Of course, that's silly too, like men who cruise a gym parking lot for 10 minutes to find the closest spot so they can go inside & jog for 30 minutes on a track.
The 2 main problems with machines is that 1- they restrict your natural joint motions to conform to the machine's geometry, and 2- they take over the job of stabilizing the load, which is what your stabilizing muscles need to be doing. Then you think you're strong because you can bench the whole stack, only to later really get hurt when you have to lift a bag of potting soil and have no real stabilization.
I'll get off my soap box now! |
| wolf29 |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 07:29:05
Yep, I'd be surprised if I ever saw a kettlebell in today's gym, or should I say "health spa"  You may even be hard pressed to find a squat rack in today's fitness centers. Everyone wants the convenience of machines. Although they have their place, you lose a lot of the benefits of good old fashioned iron. |
| allen_non |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 06:10:56
Hi TT,
I would be suprised if you came across one in a gym, at least in the near term. While KB's are catching on, they are scary looking, especially when someone is swinging one. Back when I went to a chiro, I took a 35 lb KB into his office to show him what exercises I was doing. When I started demonstrating the movements in his waiting room, the room cleared out like there was a "gas" leak!
One of the things I like the best about this type of workout, besides the true functional strength, is that you can get your cardio and strength training in the same workout. I've had better workouts (like ready to barf) in 25 minutes than I used to get in 90 minutes just doing weights. Combining heavy weights and ballistic movements is a killer workout.
To get a feel, take a dumbell and put maybe 20# on it to start. Hold the DB in one hand. Keeping your back straight (but not necessarily vertical), swing the DB rearward between your legs, then reverse the direction by explosively driving your hips forward (like you are doing a vertical jump or trying to throw the weight forward). The weight will surge forward and upward, probably between waist & chest high. The arms are NOT used to lift the weight, just to hold onto the weight like a cable. You'll have to keep your abs & glutes tight when the weight swings back between your legs to load your muscles like a spring for the next swing. Do 10-20 with one arm, then repeat with the other arm and you will be feeling it.
For another drill, lay face up on the floor with a DB (use a weight that you could press overhead). Press the weight straight up like a bench press. Keep the arm straight, locked, and pointed at the ceiling. Then try to stand up while keeping your arm that way. Once you're standing up, then try to get back down to the starting position. It makes you use a lot of stabilizing & postural muscles you might have forgotten you had.
There are many other drills that you have to use an actual kettlebell for. I don't want to bore you (or others here) with more information than you want. If you are interested, there are lots of articles on the dragondoor.com website, or you can email me directly. I've been doing this for a long time and would be happy to help.
BTW, if you watch the new "Rocky" movie promo, during the gym training sequence, Stallone is using a kettlebell (for only about a second. Sissy!).
Allen |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 00:01:30
Hi Allen_Non,
Thanks for the explanation of the kettleball. First time I've heard of them. I'll try them if I come across them in a gym someday. Effective strentgth is good. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:27:57
Cool Beans Allen, Glad to know you are a believer as well! Yes that scripture is sooooo true as well! And how you described the pain cycle couldn't be more accurate..That is EXACTLY how it happens...I will be re reading that part to help myself CATCH this when it happens again...I should say IF it happens again! That was funny, btw, when you said a load of fertilizer...love it! I might have to steal that one...:)
I am a work out nut too and in the same age group with you and Wolf...I usually work out 5 days a week and I LOVE IT! It keeps me SANE! I miss it terribly as I have only been able to do low body a couple of times in the past 2 months since this acute neck TMS attack...I plan on trying to do low body again this weekend..I need to wait to get a ride to the gym cuz i still can't turn my neck to drive that far...I miss the high from working out, it's the greatest feeling..I still have my biceps going on but i am so afraid if i don't start upper body soon, they are going to get very weak and lose their tone...That would be disastrous...So for now I am using my 40 minutes morning walk to get me prepared and healed enough to get my butt back to the gym...my favorite place next to church here in Vegas...
God bless,
Karen |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:16:08
You got it Jay, that is the trick...Learn from it but don't take it on...It's hard enough for us to each deal with whatever form of TMS we already have on our plates! We have to work hard to not take on even more new symptoms...The others our age who aren't as healthy are probably not the health nuts and exercise nuts that we are..We humans have sooooo much control over the state of our physical health...It is just a matter of realizing this and taking action... |
| allen_non |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 12:33:50
Karen,
You are absolutely right. I'm a Believer (in Christ) also, and there is a verse (can't put my finger on it just now) that states to the effect "as a man thinketh, so is he". So, if I think I'm a "loser", I will begin to act like a loser, make decisions like a loser, and even if I had the makings of a winner, I'd still become a loser. I think a lot of TMS symptoms are the result of a self-fulfilling prophesy snowball. A little tweak gets the mind paying more attention to the discomfort, considering "what might be wrong with me", that leads to increased focus, and a vicious cycle kicks in. Then conditioning to expect the pain with certain movements or situations takes over, and then it's a real knot to untangle. That can happen even if one is emotionally ok.
TT,
A kettlebell is a training tool back from old, old Russia. The Soviet Army uses them to this day as a prime training & conditioning tool. It looks like a cannon ball with a handle, and you can swing it around your body, throw it, press it, all kinds of stuff. They're great for building real world strength (I used to bench press, but never saw how it would help me get my car out of a ditch, take a box out of my car trunk, or carry an injured buddy out of a dangerous situation). I have a friend who is a chiro (and also has a "bad back". go figure!). He watches me do my drills & says it kills him to watch me do what I do. That is just another confirmation that my back must actually be ok.
Wolf,
I'm 44, so I am right there with you. I bust my tail to stay in shape, while watching those around me (many 10 or more years my junior) turn into marshmellows. Then they say my aches & pains are just a part of growing older. That's a load of fertilizer! Since discovering Sarno (and later, Fred Amir) back in November of 05, I've cut my LBP down to maybe 20% of what it was. My mobility is better, I have less fear on deadlifts or KB swings, etc, and my expectation is to continue to improve, since doctors who have a view of the sun (which means their heads are not in another place) all say that vigorous exercise is good for you. Everyone has to start somewhere, so I never criticize some one who is just walking for exercise. It takes courage to get off the duff and start doing something positive. It's those who just complain & complain & never do anything about it that get on my last good nerve.
Yikes, I'm turning into an internet preacher! Sorry 'bout that!
Allen |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 12:03:47
quote:
Originally posted by wolf29
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
What's a KETTLEBELL?
http://www.dragondoor.com/p10.html
Thanks wolf29 |
| wolf29 |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:21:43
quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
We can think/emote ourselves well or think/emote ourselves very sick... We have yet to even begin to tap into the power we have in between our very ears...
I tend to agree with both statements. I think information/knowledge it great but too much of a certain subject can have negative affects on a person in my opinion. For example, I feel that all the information at our finger tips on disease can cause some people to develop those diseases because it's on their mind so much. Yes, much of it is hereditary but if the mind can heal, I'm sure the mind can cause severe illnesses.
Many of us being the worriers we are, have to be careful of what we absorb from all the information around us. As Allen said, you don't want others people's pain rubbing off on you. For example, I'm 43 and consider myself in very good shape but people around me my age are having a lot of ailments, heart attacks and so on. Being the obsessive personality I can be, I start thinking how I am of that age where things can go wrong. That is not healthy thinking and can lead to issues that would not normally arise if I just went about my business.
So learn from all the information that is out there, but don't take it all to heart... or should I say brain |
| wolf29 |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:12:49
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
What's a KETTLEBELL?
http://www.dragondoor.com/p10.html
|
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 10:25:37
Yes Allen,
The power of our minds to do both good and bad to ourselves and to others is astonishing! I believe, on one level, that EVERYTHING...literally EVERYTHING is MIND...I believe that it is possible that we create our realities with our thoughts/emotions down to the finest details...(w/ the exception of someone having a fatal disease they were born with)...Maybe I sound a little New Age Foo Foo saying this...especially for a Christian woman..But I have seen it work in my own life, just as you have...FAITH really is everything...We can think/emote ourselves well or think/emote ourselves very sick...Jesus said "Greater things shall ye do.." We have yet to even begin to tap into the power we have in between our very ears...
~Karen |
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