| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 23:13:33
I'm wondering how many of you have physical symptoms for which no disease or condition has ever been found. I know many of you have been told you have one thing or another--herniated disc, piriformis syndrome, fibromyalgia...
The reason I ask is that I seem to have been plagued by a variety of aches, pains, neuro symptoms off and on over the past several years for which NOTHING has ever been found to be wrong. Some of the symptoms I was having several months ago just before training for and doing a marathon have returned recently. This is very depressing because I fear that each time I go through the symptom--fear--dread--hyper-vigilance cycle, it is more likely that I will repeat it. And that's the way it has been; each cycle setting up the next.
I see people on this board with over 700 posts! What is to be concluded from this? Does it mean they are still waiting for a cure? (that's not very encouraging) Does it mean TMS is something that comes and goes and one needs to stay on top of it for life? I guess I'm curious to know how many of the members who post regularly have had "cures", and if so, why continue to post, year after year? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/03/2006 : 11:59:35
quote:
Originally posted by art
TT, you actually seem annoyed. I was begining to think you were beyond (above?) all that...In any case, I'm genuinely sorry if you're offended. There was no malice intended.
Hi Art,
Not annoyed at all. Feeling quite good actually.
Only annoyed with this f'ing computer, and Verizon's Wireless Braodband "domant-connection" mode.
You may be "internet-projecting" again. I've been through a lot of wars and nothing much bothers me anymore besides flying bullets, knives and women scorned--the later are by far the most dangerous.
No worries, no malice taken.
Regards and have a happy 4th of July,
tt 
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| art |
Posted - 07/03/2006 : 11:10:57
TT, you actually seem annoyed. I was begining to think you were beyond (above?) all that...In any case, I'm genuinely sorry if you're offended. There was no malice intended. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/02/2006 : 16:09:31
Quote from Art:
"....TT's a good guy, he's just erected a few scarecrows in the form of beliefs in order to frighten away reality...It's not a good long term solution, but he means no harm..."
____________________________________________________________________
thanks for the analysis dr freud, I guess i won't need my shrink anymore, where should i send the checks to?
actually, art, i think you are projecting your "reality" onto mine. |
| miche |
Posted - 07/02/2006 : 11:36:12
Hey guys, my main concern has always been about the fear of being misunderstood less I hurt someone's feelings which is never my intention, I somehow assumed that Tom felt I was taking sides and did not know what I was talking about (I often don't)( ignorance is bliss) so it wasn't the idea of possible critisim from Tom that upset me , it was more about the fact that I did not want Tom to think I was critizising him , the whole thing makes me feel foolish so I appreciate both of your responses even more . Let's turn the page okay, my face is turning as red as my hair  |
| art |
Posted - 07/02/2006 : 10:45:42
quote:
Originally posted by miche
Ithink that I erase the first message I sent by mistake, anyhow Tom all I meant to say is that I think it is great the way Art said he respected your right to your opinion even if he did not agree, especially after all the fighting on this board, to agree to disagree is a nice way of relating , the reason I am explaining is that I am not sure if your last message was for me , at the risk of sounding really realy dumb, I am not familiar with English sayings and expressions so I cannot be sure if your message was directed at me or not
Hi miche,
I know what you meant and it's much appreciated....TT's a good guy, he's just erected a few scarecrows in the form of beliefs in order to frighten away reality...It's not a good long term solution, but he means no harm... |
| miche |
Posted - 07/02/2006 : 00:59:33
Ithink that I erase the first message I sent by mistake, anyhow Tom all I meant to say is that I think it is great the way Art said he respected your right to your opinion even if he did not agree, especially after all the fighting on this board, to agree to disagree is a nice way of relating , the reason I am explaining is that I am not sure if your last message was for me , at the risk of sounding really realy dumb, I am not familiar with English sayings and expressions so I cannot be sure if your message was directed at me or not |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 15:35:38
Quoting Me :
if ignorance is bliss, i'm in hog heaven
_____________________________________________________________________
Hi Miche,
No worries Miche, it was not directed at you, it was directed at ME ! I was celebrating my "intelectual intransigence", as Art so "Artfully" put it.
You are very sensitive, (that's OK), a TMS trait. We are perfectionists, if someone says something to us that is critical, it attacks our TMS perfectionism.
People say things about others all the time that are NOT true. It is called gossip or lying. Our TMS gremlin believes them, because we have an inferiority complex, fueled by critcism.
Most things people say have no foundation in reality. It's just idle chatter, cozmic noise, signifying nothing, meaningless. Every once in a while there is a kernel of truth floating randomly in the stratosphere. It's hard to grasp the truth through all the b.s.
Miche:
DON'T BE SENSITIVE--IT WILL ONLY GIVE YOU TMS AND MAKE YOU CRAZY !
If someone says something hurtful or critical of you, train yourself to DISMISS it outright as rubbish.
Your TMS Buddy,
tt |
| miche |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 12:20:37
I couldn't disagree more with your position, but you of course you know I celebrate your right to have it...
Art, you have my admiration for this statement . |
| art |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 11:06:37
Hey Tom,
I was only using our back and forth as a reference point for wrld, since he and I happen to be on the same side of that particular discussion...
I couldn't disagree more with your position, but you of course you know I celebrate your right to have it...
A |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 10:50:57
Quote from Art : "...your unwillingness to alter your viewpoint in the face of much compelling evidence strikes me as not very different from TT's intellectual intransigence.."
hi art,
thougtht you would slip that one by me did ya'...you are mistaking my ability to decide what is "true" and what is fiction for what you call "intellectual intransigence"...one can find reams of compelling evidence for anything today...at a certain point one needs to choose which "lies" they wish to believe...when one is trying to make a decision, one needs to have an "open" mind and examine all the evidence...but in order to take action and embark on a meaningful course in one's life, one must "close" their mind and proceed with the confidence of their convictions...i am at the point in my life that i have chosen the lies i want to believe..that is not to say, that if it does not take me successfully to my destination, that i will not do the annual update of my magellan 700 roadmate navagation device that i purchased at costco.com...
regards,
tt-wtf-the intellectual intransient-bull *******  |
| art |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 07:24:34
Hilary,
This is all so very well said. There is a diffence as well, between healthy, reason-based skepticism, and mere stubborness..
Wrld, I have no axe to grind, what you choose to believe or not to believe is none of my business..But I'll tell you this, from the outside looking in, your unwillingness to alter your viewpoint in the face of much compelling evidence strikes me as not very different from TT's intellectual intransigence..
IN answer to your question, I was an inveterate worrier...I used to worry savagely, relentlessly, for hours and sometimes days at a time. I eventually became quite sick...fatigue, food sensitivities, terrible, debilitating hypoglycemia...I got worse and worse and two years ago began to realize that I was probably going to die unless I could find a way to heal...This forum, and the idea promoted here have played an integral part in my slow, yet remarkable improvement.
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| HilaryN |
Posted - 07/01/2006 : 05:45:04
quote:
I'm just very skeptical by nature--about everything. I guess I fear being taken in, being made a fool of.
I can relate to that, especially the fear of appearing a fool to others. (It probably goes back to schooldays.) But. you know, I’ve come to realise that that fear of appearing a fool can stand in one’s way, not only of the road to health, but of discovery in general.
In the end, who is better off: those negative people who are laughing at you, calling you a fool, or you, who have discovered a way to better health? I’m sure many of us here know someone who scoffs at Sarno, preferring to keep on suffering with whatever condition they have, rather than appear a fool by accepting that Sarno’s methods cure.
A while ago I overheard part of a TV programme on alternative cures. Someone was claiming to be cured of something through Reiki. I heard a sceptic saying: “But you’re not really cured, you just think you’re cured!” That made me laugh. What’s the difference between really being cured and just thinking one is cured? I guess in the case of back pain it would mean one still has the structural deficiencies, but who cares? As long as one doesn’t have pain and can continue life in the way one wishes, that’s the main thing. I’m perfectly happy to think I’m cured, because I can do a lot more than when I thought I was in pain!
I don’t think blind faith is a good thing, but neither is over-skepticism. An open mind is best. I stopped reading the Quackwatch thread because it seemed to me that people were being over-negative. I’ve never been to Quackwatch. It seems a good idea, but I think it’s dangerous to put too much faith in another person’s point of view. In the end one just has to try things out for oneself and make up one’s own mind. What’s best for one person isn’t necessarily best for everyone and vice versa.
quote:
I guess I'm curious to know how many of the members who post regularly have had "cures", and if so, why continue to post, year after year?
I don’t class among the veterans on this board, but I’ve been cured of my RSI (for which no doctor could find any structural cause) for over 6 months. One of the most important factors in me continuing with the Sarno route when it didn’t appear to be working was encouragement from a couple of people who had cured themselves through Sarno’s book. I like to pass on that encouragement to people who are in a similar position to where I was.
Hilary N |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 22:06:32
Art,
Thanks. I also enjoy your posts.
You said, "it has been my experience that worry about nonexistent health problems is a sure route to actual health problems." I'm curious about the details of how this applied to you.
As for my being a hard case re: believeing in TMS, you're right. I'm just very skeptical by nature--about everything. I guess I fear being taken in, being made a fool of. It's almost a self-defensiveness.
I wasn't always this way. I used to be open, naive, even gullible. Maybe my present way is a gross overreaction to that. As I said before, I sometimes envy people who can simply decide to believe something without much proof, simply because believing might improve their lives. Sure makes life easier. |
| art |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 04:56:02
I always enjoy your posts wrld. You're a hard case, that's for sure. You've so obviously got TMS it's not even funny, yet for whatever reason you can't accept it...
I hope you get it soon. You're a relatively young, healthy marathon runner of all things...The world is filled with genuinely sick people who would sell their souls to have your health...
EDit: JUst to add, it's been my experience that needless worry about non-existent health problems is a pretty sure route to actual health problems..
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 23:48:47
Thanks all, for your thoughtful responses. I guess my question was motivated by the contrast between the relatively straightforward "cures" portrayed in Sarno's books versus the reality shown by real people on this board. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.
I don't know how many of you have the ambivalence about TMS theory that I do. As much as the theory rings true, I always try to keep my options open, acknowledging the possibility of the psychological as symptom culprit, while emotionally being quite convinced it is structural. I almost envy those who are able to suspend disbelief (pertains to religion too) and at least have some peace of mind.
One realization I had today as both the Depression I have had for several days and the physical symptoms vanished, was this: I notice a pattern. It seems I ONLY have physical symptoms when I am depressed and anxious. I don't recall EVER having them when my mood was normal. Now, what does this mean? Does it mean the mood causes the symptoms or the symptoms cause the mood? I'm quite convinced it is the former. Why? Because I've noticed another pattern. Even while mentally down, there is a mood fluctuation throughout the day. Worse in the morning and afternoon and much better at night. Coincidentally, my physical symptoms always follow the same pattern! By night they are either very mild or nonexistent. This says very clearly to me that the physical follows the psychological.
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| miche |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 21:46:34
Singer artist, Art and Beth, thank you for your very helpful posts, Beth I will order that book you recommended, it sounds fascinating, as for sugar, you may have a point, being French canadian , baking daily was a way of life, thankfully my new guy does not eat dessert, so it is now easier for me to resist temptation, the store bought stuff is not nearly as tempting. Art, I agree with you regarding stress, also I suppose having more stress than one can handle could bring about the feelings of rage, inadequacy, etc that Dr Sarno refers to . Singer artist, thank you for being so caring |
| h2oskier25 |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:29:38
I can certainly relate to the fears, especially cancer.
Here's my take on that. Sugar is the food of choice of malignant tumors, so I eat it only when "cheating" and hope to someday stop altogether. Google "selenium" and "cancer" and you'll see that taking a simple cheap mineral supplement can reduce your chances of getting cancer even further. ALL CANCERS. What a gift!
Third, check out the following book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0938530666/ref=sr_11_1/104-7474747-6696705?ie=UTF8
This Doctor in Houston found a way to reverse tumor growth in Brain Tumor patients decades ago, and has since expanded his practice to other cancers, one of which is breast cancer. If you read this book, prepare to get REALLY mad at the FDA for trying to put this man out of business because the Big Pharmaceutical Companies aren't able to get rich off of his methods.
It's a great read, and lets me sleep better at night.
I know this is off the subject a little, but we all worry about our health on this site, that's why we're here. If we have one less thing to worry about, that's a godsend.
Best wishes,
Beth |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:22:36
Great post Art, makes alot of sense my friend!  |
| art |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 14:26:39
Hi miche,
wrld and I have had several conversations regarding hypochondria, and the topic of death and the fear of death has come up a few times.
Total armchair amateur psychology 101 here, but for what it's worth my sense of things is that hypochondria is about more than simply the fear of death. Most people have sufficient defense mechanisms in place, most notably repression, so that it's not usually a big problem, on a conscious level anyway.
Of course, that can change as we get older, lose loved ones, or become seriously ill etc.
In answer to your question, I do not think fear of death is a primary cause of TMS, but the longer I'm around here the more I believe that stress most definitely is. So worrying about anything excessively, whether it's death or an upcoming marriage for example (some might think of the two as pretty much the same thing anyway ..could cause or exacerbate TMS..
Just my thoughts.. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 10:24:27
YES YES Miche,
I can soooo relate...I lost both of my parents to cancer 16 years ago, 5 months apart...I still can't believe they are gone and I miss them sometimes like it was yesterday...I am sure the fact that i don't have any close siblings, a husband or children plays into this...I have also lost several close friends far too prematurely in life...And I admit i am very scared of DEATH and DYING as well...Thank God i know ALOT about nutrition, my friends call me Dr. Wallo sometimes..lol..I tell you this because i want to reassure you that there are MANY things you can do nutritionally and otherwise to ASSURE that YOU NEVER GET CANCER...Don't let the medical establishment scare you into thinking that because your mom and sis had it you will too! That just isn't true...Eating right (avoiding sugar especially in all it's unnatural forms), exercising, not smoking, meditation, PRAYER and belief in God (a big one for me), and changing ones thoughts and preoccupation with death to more positive thoughts about LIFE AND LIVING really helps! For me, as my Faith in God/Jesus increases I have less fear of death and believe me my fear of death was REALLY BAD at one time...I still have it, but when i think about it, I have so many loved ones in Heaven waiting for me that it isn't such a bad thing..Also when i am in the middle of an acute attack of neck or knee TMS part of me thinks that i cannot wait to be out of this life and out of pain..Also think about all the studies that have been done on near death experiences and how thousands have the same experience...ie...the tunnel, the light, the departed loved ones greeting you, and the loving presence of God...That doesn't sound too bad to me! This life is full of pain, but it is how we deal with it that is so important...Do you have a family..ie..husband, children...etc..focus on your love for them and theirs for you..You are not alone! I never married, no children and i am in my 40's...With my folks gone i must admit i feel incredibly alone sometimes, although i am blessed with wonderful friends and as i said a great relationship with the Lord...That is what sees me through..As well as my 2 amazing doggies who keep me sane...If you want to talk more about this just write me here or email me if i have helped...I sure hope i did...Hang in there...Be well... |
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