| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Suz |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 08:11:05
I am still in the middle of this bizarre flare up. I actually walked to work this morning even though my sciatica was awful. I am trying to think psychologically and ignore the pain but I find it hard just to conjure up emotional problems on the spot! It seems so fake that it makes me focus on the problem more!
I have actually found it more effective to just ignore the whole thing and get on with whatever I am doing. This seems to reduce the pain a little.
Does anyone have any other tips? I only have time to journal in the evening and cannot be staring at my emotional problems all day! |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Susie |
Posted - 09/17/2004 : 13:56:54
Suz- I was given Sarno's book the end of March. I read both his books many times and then bought the videos. I thought they were great. I journaled alot and dredged up stuff I hadn't thought of in years. I didn't see a therapist but I would advise one to someone who felt they needed more insight. For me, I think realizing all my symptoms were related and what was causing them was probably the most theraputic thing for me. It was a great relief. When I began to journal, I kept trying to find the "big" trigger that "sent me over the edge". I really don't know if there was one or if I found it but I think that honestly looking backward gave me a very good awareness of why I am what I am. Rick Carson's book "taming your Gremlin" was very helpful in getting me "to notice" my anxiety beginning. My triggers seem to be more based in anxiety and pressure than anger. Now when a symptom arises, I treat it like someone tapping me on the shoulder. I turn around to see who it is and what they "really" want. I don't know if I will ever be "symptom free". As Dr. Sarno said, most get around 90% and that's fine with me. I would bet that as your backpain diminishes, so will your ibs. Best of luck. |
| Suz |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 15:59:06
Susie,
How long have you been doing the TMS work for? I would love to get rid of my constipaton and mild acne on face. I have really made progres with my back and think I am on my way. I am even running for the first time in years. Did you do journalling, see a therapist - would love to know a little about your path to recovery.thanks Suz |
| Susie |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 08:53:57
Hi Laura- I remember your posts because I really identified with them. I, too had dizziness, ibs, hives,frequent urination,etc. Like you, ibs and dizziness were my worst. I had all these off and on for years and then the big back attact this March. First I thought the dizziness was from eye strain and then a sinus infection. Usually when I laid down it was the worst. If I went from light into darkness ie. parking garage,dark room,I would totally loose my equilibrium. Sometimes, driving down the road, I would have to pull over. If I touched the back or top of my head, it would induce dizziness immediately. With my back attack came a huge ibs attack. Abdominal pain was terrible. I had so much discomfort, I thought for sure it was colon cancer. The fear that comes with tms exacerbated everything. I still get small doses of dizziness , ibs and other tms symptoms. I recognize them for what they are and they promptly go away. I have realized that if I allow tms and the fear that comes with it to have imput in my life, my participation in my life could be severly limited. Even though my backpain attack was horrific,I am almost grateful for it because it introduced me to Sarno and this wonderful information. The ability to control tms has changed my life. It is very impowering. |
| Laura |
Posted - 09/12/2004 : 15:50:57
Susie,
You said "in treating my back pain I also treated my equivalents too..." i.e. IBS and dizziness. Those are two of my worst TMS equivalents and I wonder if you could exlaborate on your dizziness for me and describe how long you had it for and what it was like. Mine comes on simply by anxious thoughts or in anxious situations. It also comes on in certain places, where I expect it to happen. It only lasts a moment but it troubles me. I've had it for over two years (read my post on dizziness - I'd hate to repeat the whole sordid story) and it's not bad now but I do experience it for a few seconds daily. Some days I don't have it all day long. I've had back pain, IBS, frequent urination and recurrent urinary tract infections, hives, tension headaches, acid reflux to name a few. But the dizziness has been the most troubling, because I've been afraid to fly or be on a boat. Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
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| menvert |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 17:18:56
I started ringing round for therapists...
it can be quite scary.
especially when you get those therapists with a big attitude...
who fill you with all sorts of fears by asking you things like who is your Dr and did he suggests this? and what is TMS. And otherwise generally trying to break your resolve. Usually ending in - no I don't believe in analytical psychoanalysis. It has never been proven to be helpful.. lol. I hope I can find one who is not so full of themselves they will not listen to new ideas/support the idea that I may have valid input.
Thanks for your pointers tho Dave.
--------------------------------------------------
my TMS = diagnosed with fibromyalgia - forearm & hand tendonitis - vocal cord tension myositis syndrome - bad back/knee |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/10/2004 : 08:31:31
You do not necessarily need a psychologist who understands TMS. You do need a Freudian psychoanalyst. Then, in your first session, simply explain very briefly Dr. Sarno's theory, that repressed emotions can lead to physical symptoms. If the psychologist is worth their salt, they will not dismiss this theory. In any case, a Freudian psychoanalyst is trained in the type of therapy necessary for TMS work. It's really up to you to accept that the things you learn about yourself in therapy are directly related to your physical symptoms. |
| menvert |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 17:39:10
Actually right now I am in the process of trying to find a Psychologist/psychotherapist but because I live in Australia and not even in a capital city... I am unlikely to find one who actually understands TMS... any ideas, what I should try and ask for to find in a therapist otherwise? , so far, I am trying to find an analytical psychotherapist who has any knowledge of psychosomatic illness...
I know I have a lot of repressed emotions, some of which I am aware of and others I am obviously not aware of otherwise I would not have SO many TMS symptoms...
So yes, I would be great if I could bring them out from the darkness and recognise their existence :)
Actually, I had a flareup as I woke up this morning my newest area of pain decided to be several times more painful than when I went to bed.... finding this forum must be scaring my brain :) |
| Suz |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 10:12:04
Like Dave, I have grown up repressing a lot of emotions. I am British and grew up learning to have a "stiff upper lip" and not show anything. I have always put on a tough exterior and had no idea how much I repressed. I am having one on one therapy once every two weeks and she has told me that I have a real fear of feeling uncomfortable emotions.
So now I am really noticing when I am angry or fearful. I am not sitting in it for long - but really feeling the emotions before I let them go. I mentioned this as a topic breakthrough that since I have been doing this (only a few days) my pain has almost gone now. The reduction in pain has been dramatic. It is very liberating. I am still doing the writing and reading.
I think the important thing is to recognize and try and feel the emotions. It is what Sarno calls "teaching the subconscious to send different messages to the muscles" - in other words, send the blood flow/oxygen back. If one is feeling the emotions, there is no reason any more for the mind to use the body - the avoidance/diversion strategy is no longer needed |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 07:06:58
quote:
From what I understand, what we do with those 'negative' rage producing thoughts is not as important as simply realising that you have them and that they are there!
Yes this is true, and it is sufficient for many people.
But some with TMS have more difficulty shaking the symptoms, myself included. I believe some people have simply grown up in such a way that they are not accustomed to feeling emotions. Repression is an unconscious habit. Some emotions get repressed before we even realize they are present; they are never conscious. Emotional defenses are ingrained in our personalities.
In order to get full relief, it may be necessary to undergo psychotherapy to attempt to bring those emotions to the surface, and to "learn" how to feel -- to experience emotions consciously before our automatic defenses have a chance to bury them. |
| menvert |
Posted - 09/08/2004 : 22:47:43
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Texasrunner
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir.
Yes, that's a great point.
But, what happens if we stop ourselves from feeling this irrational rage? Does it get repressed
Personally I am learning to recognize "worthless" thoughts and stop them;
However, I wonder, what happens to those thoughts when you short circuit them?
From what I understand, what we do with those 'negative' rage producing thoughts is not as important as simply realising that you have them and that they are there!
That they may trigger/contribute to our pain. as Sarno suggests changing our thought patterns is great but in many cases, we cannot. but if we recognise them(and if possible examining why), that is nearly as powerful as stopping that thought. Because we have 'understood the unconscious intellectually'
I guess I'm saying it's not as important dwelling on trying to stop out thoughts and thinking of them as bad or wrong...
as it is to recognise they exist and they are part of us. if we can change out thoughts that is great . but if we cannot , that's okay too. we will understand that they exist tho!(And explore why they exist, why are we really angry)...
So IMO you can still be angry about the peanut Styrofoam... but as soon as you recognise it contributes to your rage(the anger and not the bending over). it should no longer create pain , because you understand the rage...
But yes , I do have issues about 'stopping bad thoughts' becoming repression and creating further problems.. gentler is better for changing thought patterns in my opinion.. gently recognise your thought patterns and next time you can tell it is about to happen, you can do it differently... but no need to get angry at yourself for not succeeding this time..(Also be aware you may never be able to change it as it is too much part of your personality)
Not sure if it's relevant but some yoga teaching suggest experiencing anger being better than expressing it (one day I might figure out what it means)... |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 14:04:35
I'm still mad about that dang styrofoam peanut! (Just kidding) |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 10:49:39
I don't know. It's probably not a good idea to go too deep with the possible ramifications of the chain of thoughts. Maybe better to simply recognize how your everyday reactions to things, however small, invoke narcissistic rage. By doing so, you can step back from it or laugh it. |
| Dave |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 10:25:12
quote:
Originally posted by Texasrunner
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir.
Yes, that's a great point.
But, what happens if we stop ourselves from feeling this irrational rage? Does it get repressed and add to our resivoir? Might it be better to lock ourselves in a room and scream to ourselves and get it all out, silly and irrational as it may be?
Personally I am learning to recognize "worthless" thoughts and stop them; for example, reliving the past; worrying about something that might happen in the future even though it is out of our control. This is a cognitive-behavioral approach, but I think it is worthwhile.
However, I wonder, what happens to those thoughts when you short circuit them? Are we training ourselves to learn to live in the moment, and truly purge those "worthless" thoughts, so these thoughts will become fewer and far between? Or are we just fooling ourselves and repressing and adding to the rage?
I don't know the answer. I believe we need a balanced approach; recognize and banish the "bad" thoughts but at the same time embrace and accept the irrational feelings that might accompany them. |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 09:06:00
"I was angry at whatever neighbor it was who had been so careless with his/her packing material that he/she had dared to let it fall and drift over to my yard."
Above is a quote from Fox. Read it again, and think about it. Here is a perfect example of narcissistic rage at work. And all over a piece of peanut styofoam that may have accidentally drifted out of a trash bin. "Dared to let it fall and drift over to my yard... Amazing!
Fox is not alone. I do this too, and so do many others. By internallizing such random, trivial events, and making them personal, we endlessly contribute to our internal rage. Sarno talks about an "internal reservoir of rage" that becomes full to overflowing. When it overflows, the unpleasant feelings manifest as physical pain.
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir. |
| Susie |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 16:24:39
Hey Suz- My worst equivalents were ibs and dizziness. The ibs was so bad at times, I was in bed with what I thought was the flu. I had a bad outbreak of hives before the back attack. Tingling and numbness in my right hand and arm, I dropped things all the time. Partial numbness on one side of my face. I looked normal but I could feel it. Horrible sinus trouble for a year. I took clarinex and a cortisone nasal spray every day. I just didn't put these symptoms together until I had the back attack and found Sarno. I guess that is why I found him so credible because he listed my symptoms and put an explanation with them. In treating my backpain, I accidentally treated my equivalents too. I can't tell you how much my quality of life has improved. Being able to expel the pain and other symptoms leaves me feeling very impowered. I must say,though, that it a constant work in progress but the symptoms grow weaker and I feel stronger. I almost feel that even though I wish I didn't have tms, it has given me a key to and a greater understanding of my own psychological makeup. I have become very introspective and understand much better why I feel the way I do. So in a way, tms is a kind of a gift. |
| Suz |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:44:59
Susie,
How amazing that you don't have the equivalents. May I ask what any of them were if you don't mind sharing?
I would be so thrilled to really see mine disappear for good. I am convinced that my rosacea is another equivalent. I have already seen an improvement in my skin but I still have problems.
Jay,
You sound like you are a master at journalling! I think that fear and sadness are huge ones. When I had my episode last week seeing my ex sister in laws again - I know I am not angry at them in any way but I am very sad as I love and miss them terribly. The pain of seeing them was agonizing and really affected me. I had a terrible sciatic flare up after 4 months of no back pain. |
| Suz |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:37:30
Thank you Fox for all this valuable info.
I also have suffered from TMS equivalents - heartburn, one tension headache (really awful), stomach/digestive issues, acne breakouts and hives. Since the back pain came back (in totally new location) last week, my skin has cleared and I have no hearburn or stomach problems.
This is quite incredible.
I am sure the acid reflux is the same. It might be interesting to work on being really convinced of that and discontinuing the meds - taking them might be feeding into the TMS and thereby not stopping the cycle.
I have pretty much stopped taking nexium as I know the heartburn is psychological - my gastro specialist told me it was stress related as is my IBS. That is as far as they go and then of course he just told me to reduce the stress. For most people this is not easy to do as everyone has a level of stress in life - I guess this weak kind of "cure" keeps these doctors in business or may just be that they don't know what to do. |
| JayP |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:23:02
All,
I've been journaling for 2 months now and have found it extremely helpful. In fact, I just came up with an idea and added 4 charts to my journal that breaks down "The 10 Top Things" that I'm: Angry/Mad About, Afraid About, Sad/Disappointed About, and what I'm Happy About. Each chart has a What, Why and How to Change It/Deal With It column. After all the psychological work I've been doing, it's easy to fill it in. The charts help "memorialize" what I've learned about myself over the past 2 months. I think I've discovered that anger and rage aren't the only emotions that we suppress/repress. Fear is a huge emotional issue and one we don't like to admit to ourselves or anyone else. I found that my Fear Chart was the first chart I made and the first one I filled in within a few minutes. While I haven't completed all the Why's or How to Change It/Deal With It columns, I'm finding this exercise extremely helpful. Perhaps once I'm finished I'll be able to pull my "Top 10" when I have a physical attack like Fox did.
JayP |
| Susie |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:22:52
Fox- I had all your equivalents, except acid reflux,and I also had some extras. Mine also left along with the pain as I practiced Sarno's methods. My first recollection of a pain free day was one in which I was too "busy" to think about the pain. I "felt" for the pain and realized I had none. I think that was a great reinforcement of Sarno's theory for me. I knew for sure that I was on the right track. When I get a little pain now, the first thing I do is try to think of what is bothering me. I tell the pain to get lost and that it has no future with me. The next thing I do is try and get busy. It has really worked for me so far. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 13:35:29
Suz - I neglected to answer your question about the pain moving around. Yes, the pain does come to different parts of my left leg at different times. I never have gotten pain in the right leg, however. I also have problems with other TMS equivalents that substitute sometimes for the leg pain -- headaches, dizziness, tinnitus, acid reflux, tingling in the hands, and face pain that mimmicks a sinus infection. I can get rid of all of them using anti-TMS work after a short while except for the acid reflux --- I must use OTC and Rx meds for that. But I think that the acid reflux must be TMS because it usually happens when I am angry or fearful. |
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