| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pipie |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 15:30:59
When reading material on TMS, I find a lot of emphasis on pain brought about through movement with associated mobility difficulties. Sarno emphasizes that it is important to try and not let these pains restrict your physical activities as best as possible. I have also read that pain patterns of TMS tend to get conditioned so that the pain flares up in response to some physical trigger - usually some kind of physical movement / activity. My pains are not influenced by moving a certain way and are not aggravated by physical activity. Also, I do not see a connection with the pain and my emotional state. I've seen many doctors and have had all the tests but no physical cause for my pain has been found. TMS seems likely as I fit the personality profile in a lot of ways, but the pain just seems to fluctuate at random which makes it very difficult to work with. It would be encouraging to feel my pain get worse when (i.e.) I get stressed / angry etc. or work out too long. That would make sense and give me a sense of control as it would give me something to work with. There is always a strong feeling of muscular tension which started in my neck several years ago and has more recently moved to include my stomach which seems to get better / worse at random. Can anyone relate to such unpredictability in symptoms? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/28/2006 : 10:13:35
Pipie
I hope you do get a chance to read Dr. Sarno's new book as he widens the discussion on psychosomatic symptoms quite a lot. It is much more scholarly and even more convincing than his previous books.
Peter |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/28/2006 : 07:28:07
Every study has its flaws.
There is no doubt Freud went a bit too far in some of his theories and earned his recent reputation as a quack. But the fundamental concept of repressed emotions being the cause of psychogenic symptoms started with Freud and it is the basis for Dr. Sarno's work.
Before CBT there were lots of people helped by good "old fashioned" psychoanalysis. But I really believe Sarno provides an important missing link that makes psychoanalysis much more successful -- the fact that the symptoms serve as a distraction to prevent us from feeling those repressed emotions. Without understanding that important point, the symptoms are likely to continue no matter how many hours of psychotherapy a patient endures. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 03/28/2006 : 00:02:42
Dave--re: bashing Freud...maybe with good reason, at least as far as treating depression, for example. There was a study that compared the efficacy of psychoanalysis vs psychotherapy (cognitive) and also meds. Well, cognitive therapy, meds--and even the placebo made about 60% of the patients better. As for psychoanalysis, the success rate was an embarrassing 30%!
Sarno might well be right that Freud and the psychoanalysists are bashed unfairly as related to psychogenic maladies, TMS. I don't know. But if you're depressed, a psychoanalyist is the last person you would want to see. |
| Dave |
Posted - 03/27/2006 : 08:02:24
Freudian psychotherapy with a therapist who understands and agrees with Dr. Sarno's theory is the only kind of therapy that is prescribed for TMS.
A true psychoanalyst should have no problems agreeing with the concept of TMS. Unfortunately, much of the profession bashes Freud these days. |
| pipie |
Posted - 03/27/2006 : 01:18:27
Hilary,Chris,
I have tried various forms of psychotherapy in the past. The problem I'm finding is that it is very hard to find someone trained to effectively treat TMS. Cognitive therapy seems to be the popular approach and this hasn't helped me. I have also seen a psychiatrist whose opionion was that I did not have a psychiatric illness but nevertheless perscribed anti-psychotic medication as he thought it might take my mind off the pain. Bioenergetic therapy as a form of psychotherapy seemed promising as it deals with releasing muscular tensions that work to keep repressed emotions from consciousness. I don't think I gave this a long enough effort and may try this approach again.
|
| HilaryN |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 05:13:47
Pipie,
Remember that the pain can be caused by unconscious emotions, so the pain won’t necessarily bear any relation to the conscious emotional state you are in.
You say you have been working with the mindbody approach for years now. You don’t say whether you have tried psychotherapy and I agree with Chris that additional help may be necessary. Have you tried this?
Hilary N |
| imdplum |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 01:12:41
Northwest, I have the Schechter CDs. And the Monte Hueftle book and downloads, as well as all the Sarno books and the Sopher book.
Going to see Dr. Schechter wouldn't be a bad idea, either, if you're within striking distance of him.
Chris |
| FlyByNight |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 16:23:50
Northwest..
I have also severe neck pain ... I three books helped me very much
1) the monte hueftle book
2) the fred amir book
3) the back sense book
Sarno dvd is very well done , better to the schechter dvd in my opinion.
schecter CDs are very well done and the mindbody program also helps a lot to focus on the right thing
I dont know about your symtoms.. did you have MRI and xrays done ?
hope this helps.
P. |
| northwest |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 15:34:19
Hi everyone,
I have been looking with amazement at the postings of other individuals who experience the same issues with TMS as myself. I have been dealing with excruciating neck and shoulder pain for the last 15 years of my life. Having to live in fear of the pain returning is horrible. I work full time and sometimes I can barely make it to work let alone function with the pain. As it becomes so painful I develop a headache that is migraine like in nature. I have seen the usual MDs, chiro, Pt's etc but nothing has worked to help me alleviate this pain. I recently came upon Dr. Sarno's book but find it hard to relate to how to use my brain to lessen the pain. Has anyone purchased the DVD's, CD's, etc that Dr. Schechter has done. I need more info and more of an hands on approach to figure out how to use my mind to help my symptoms. In the past 10 years, I find myself having panic attacks when I think a headache or muscle spasm comes on and this type of pain has wracked havoc on my life. I am thinking of scheduling an appointment with Dr. Schechter for a consult because I am so sick and tired of this.
Thanks and any input would be appreciated. |
| imdplum |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 20:14:21
Pipie, if you cannot tie your pain to emotional state (present or recently past), is there a possibility that you're not accurately evaluating your emotional state? I note that my pain doesn't go tit-for-tat with my emotional state, but appears to be more a response to the larger pattern of stress, people-pleasing and repression.
I have only been onto Sarno's theories for a bit over a month, but I am now "catching" myself justifying other people's actions that hurt my feelings, rather than accepting and allowing my feelings to be hurt. Such justification, although beneficent, is a repression activity that denies my feelings. Patterns like that can be difficult to uncover, and I have sought additional help.
As soon as I read Sarno's and Sopher's books, the back spasms I had been having for four weeks straight stopped. But within about 10 days, I was stricken with glute spasms and subsequent sciatica, which didn't resolve, and that's why I thought I'd best look a bit further.
Perhaps some additional help or insight is warranted?
Chris |
| pipie |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 17:18:42
Thank you for your comments Peter and Joe.
Peter, I'm convinced that the source of my pains is not physical, but my difficulty is that even though I acknowledge this, it doesn't seem to help. Joe, I've also tried the yelling and screaming that you have described. There's a book by Fred Amir "Rapid Recovery from Neck and Back Pain" I read that talks about this a lot & rewarding your subconscious etc. My frustration is that I don't really notice any changes as a result of my efforts; and I've been trying for several years now. Which makes me wonder whether I have TMS or some other unknown to me psychosomatic condition which may not have as favorable an outlook as "TMS". I guess the question here is what distinguishes TMS from other psychosomatic conditions - or is TMS just another word for psychosomatic? In which case Sarno's message is that anything psychosomatic can be treated by his method. So the issue becomes convincing yourself that what you thought was physical is in fact psychosomatic / TMS and working with this. But I am already convinced and have been working at it following Sarno's advice without success which makes me wonder whether I have a psychosomatic condition that is perhaps not TMS? |
| joemccarthy |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 15:12:50
Pipi, I can relate. My primary pain was neck related; sometimes right side and the others left side with chest and abdominal pain now and the sometimes with the neck pain and sometimes not. My MRI's showed moderate disease in my late 40's but I had bouts of bad neck pain and spasm since my 20's. Pain and disability became part of my life. Sometimes occurring for what seemed to be a physical reason and sometimes not. When I read TMP I identified with the profile of TMS and started yelling and screaming at my unconscious brain til the pain went away. It worked. I treated my unconscious like an errant pet scolding at every twinge and rewarding with positive enforcement when the pain started to diminish. It's TMS I have no doubt. Even if you don't believe this 100% believe us that the pain will go away.
joemccarthy |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 15:59:26
It is a hallmark of TMS for the pain to move around and to be unpredictable. Everyone's pain pattern is different. The purpose of the pain is to keep you focused on your physical body and away from your inner emotions. Your brain, which intiates the pain, will know what works for your personally to keep your distracted. There are not two people on this board with the exact same symptoms or pain patterns.
The mind will play every trick in the book to make you believe that the source of your problem is physical. It will also try to make you believe that although everyone else on this board really has TMS that your pain is too intense and not like the others therefore you do not have TMS but a physical problem.
Another trick is for the brain to actually relieve you of your pain for a few days to the point you think you are making progress and then you will let your guard down. Then the pain comes back- sometimes in a different spot- and once again you become "convinced" that you have a physical problem. You will run back to your doctor who will do a series of tests and then tell you that nothing was found or give you a bogus diagnosis.
It is TMS man, and it is very tricky. Luckily, knowing in advance the tricks your brain plays on you will help your thwart its efforts. |
